Chemtrails Video with Ballast Barrels
- Thread starter Jay Reynolds
- Start date
Rico
Senior Member.
That came around the time of the Vietnam war. Like it's modern day derivative, it doesn't create clouds. Rather they seed existing ones to create rainfall.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John,
In your video Dane Wigington says that the sun has been dimmed by geoenginering which he claims is happeing when he sees "chemtrails". That would be expected if geoengineering were taking place. The whole idea of geoengineering began when it was noticed that the eruption of Pinatubo caused a dimming of solar transmission through the atmosphere. Dane knows all about what I am going to shw you here, because I sent him the information, but he has withheld this from you.
The facts are that scientists have been making measurements of solar transmission for many decades. Their results clearly show what happened during eruptions, but look and see that these perturbations were temporary and that a steady-state level soon returns. Look here at what geoeneginering would look like, and see for yourself that geoengineering is not taking place:
View attachment 1827
Joh, the lies have got to stop. You could be helping people instead of continuing the deceptions. People need to know that Dane Wigington refuses to face the facts, and hides them from those he intends to ensnare into his delusion. He knows that if folks find out that there is no basis for his claims, they will rightfully reject him. You should reject him because the foundaton of what he is telling you has no basis. He is lying and so far you have been helping him. You need to do the right thing and pull your support for his man.
In your video Dane Wigington says that the sun has been dimmed by geoenginering which he claims is happeing when he sees "chemtrails". That would be expected if geoengineering were taking place. The whole idea of geoengineering began when it was noticed that the eruption of Pinatubo caused a dimming of solar transmission through the atmosphere. Dane knows all about what I am going to shw you here, because I sent him the information, but he has withheld this from you.
The facts are that scientists have been making measurements of solar transmission for many decades. Their results clearly show what happened during eruptions, but look and see that these perturbations were temporary and that a steady-state level soon returns. Look here at what geoeneginering would look like, and see for yourself that geoengineering is not taking place:
View attachment 1827
Joh, the lies have got to stop. You could be helping people instead of continuing the deceptions. People need to know that Dane Wigington refuses to face the facts, and hides them from those he intends to ensnare into his delusion. He knows that if folks find out that there is no basis for his claims, they will rightfully reject him. You should reject him because the foundaton of what he is telling you has no basis. He is lying and so far you have been helping him. You need to do the right thing and pull your support for his man.
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Belfrey
Senior Member.
They release chemicals (usually using flares, not exactly "spray") INTO existing clouds for cloud seeding, to make them precipitate more efficiently. Cloud seeding doesn't create clouds.
I suggest that you stop jumping around from point to point, and try to at least acknowledge this one point. You keep trying to conflate cloud seeding with "chemtrails", but it's not the same thing - and none of the images and articles you're posting say that they are.
John Massaria
New Member
View attachment 1828DEBUNK THIS...
I used the old studies of rats getting cancer from sacchrine as a reference to the fact that OLD studies are relevant to new studies... even when lobbyists pay for the study to reverse the findings...
I used the old studies of rats getting cancer from sacchrine as a reference to the fact that OLD studies are relevant to new studies... even when lobbyists pay for the study to reverse the findings...
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John Massaria
New Member
"A short review on Geo-engineering proposals to fight against climate change"
Jean-Pierre Chalon
Météo-France, Toulouse, France
Making more reflective clouds
The reflecting power of a cloud is a function
of its droplet concentration. A higher concentration
corresponds to a stronger reflection of the solar
energy. Thus, the clouds developing in polluted
areas better prevent the ground from solar radiation.
Their high concentrations in droplets are due to the
presence of numerous aerosols, providing support to
the condensation of water vapour.
Conversely, because of the low number of
aerosols, clouds over oceans have far less droplets.
One could then consider increasing their reflective
power by seeding them with hygroscopic nuclei.
Measurements also highlight that, in the
track of the ships, the clouds often have higher
droplet concentrations than clouds observed in the
surrounding areas. This perspective seems to be
rather interesting since low clouds such as marine
stratocumulus regularly cover about one-quarter of
the ocean surface.
Met Watch
Moderator
Conspiracy theorists referring to conspiracy websites for reference. You got this from Jim Lee, didn't you?
They were going to simulate noctilucent clouds. The main intent of the program was to study the cloud itself. The cloud would also be used to see how radar echos would be affected by the cloud.
Nowhere in that presentation is anything about chemtrails, or anything remotely close TO it, mentioned or even inferred.
Belfrey
Senior Member.
Even this theoretical proposal says that it would involve releasing chemicals INTO existing clouds to make them more reflective.
John Massaria
New Member
Ok, so is this better de-bunker?
Please note: This video contains many images, the ones that have aircraft images in them show 100% Aircraft equipment, the de-bunkers tell me the cylinders are full of water, they also say the contrails are harmless and contain no chem-trail residue. They also say cloud seeding is common place and again, completely harmless to every living thing on earth. They claim Geo-engineering is myth ... you decide....
Met Watch
Moderator
A proposal to reduce the amount of aerosols in a cloud to make it more reflective? You keep failing to understand - cloud seeding does NOT create clouds. Sure, it affects existing clouds, but it does not create new ones.
John Massaria
New Member
still no one answers this document here.. I guess it was overlooked?
John Massaria
New Member
Did I say you deny it or did I say: Please note: This video contains many images, the ones that have aircraft images in them show 100% Aircraft equipment, the de-bunkers tell me the cylinders are full of water, they also say the contrails are harmless and contain no chem-trail residue. They also say cloud seeding is common place and again, completely harmless to every living thing on earth. They claim Geo-engineering is myth ... you decide....
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John, quoting studies about sacharrine or cigarettes doesn't distract us from the subject matter of this thread, nor does it prove anything about the claims your video makes.
Now, where did you get that photo of the Dryden vortex study? Did you redact the original source and context, or did someone else do that? If so, show us where you got it. Someone is being deceptive here, either someone deceived you, which you should be concerned about and need to publcly expose so that others are not similarly deceived, or you did the cropping yourself. Which is it, and what is the truth about this photo?
This question goes to motive, honesty and integrity.
What is the truth about how youcame to post this photo?
View attachment 1829
Now, where did you get that photo of the Dryden vortex study? Did you redact the original source and context, or did someone else do that? If so, show us where you got it. Someone is being deceptive here, either someone deceived you, which you should be concerned about and need to publcly expose so that others are not similarly deceived, or you did the cropping yourself. Which is it, and what is the truth about this photo?
This question goes to motive, honesty and integrity.
What is the truth about how youcame to post this photo?
View attachment 1829
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Rico
Senior Member.
It's a proposal, and a relatively recent one. And we get it: clouds reflect solar energy. However, there is nothing in that article that suggests they are seeding for that purpose. Have you even see the planes they have that do cloud seeding? In any case, here is the rest of that section of the cited article:
J. Latham (2004) rather suggests using
particles in solution. To this end, he proposes to
construct a fleet of vessels equipped with long
chimneys used to send fine sea water particles into
the atmosphere.
If they do not reach directly the clouds,
these droplets will evaporate and release the salt
crystals they contain. This increased number of
condensation nuclei present in the atmosphere
would then promote the formation of a greater
number of droplets in the developing clouds. J.
Latham estimated to 1,500 the number of boats
necessary to compensate for a doubling of
atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations.
Studies are still needed to estimate the
feasibility, cost, and possible side effects of such a
project. Clouds with high droplet concentrations
being less efficient to produce large drops, the
implementation of such a technique could, in
particular, lead to a decrease in precipitation
watering coastal regions.
ref: http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/arep/wwrp/new/documents/ENV.Chalon_France.pdf
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John, sure there are proposals for geoengineering, but tell me what the data actually shows.
I presented the data, do you see geoengineering happening in the graph, or not?
solrey
Senior Member.
The CARE research was initiated with a sub-orbital sounding rocket to create noctilucent clouds at over 170 miles in altitude. The experiment had nothing whatsoever to do with cloud seeding, geo-engineering or tropospheric condensation trails produced by airplanes.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/CARE.html
The experiment happened, so what? In fact, there have been several other high altitude rocket experiments to study a variety of aspects of the atmosphere "at the edge of space". The bunk involves the duplicitous conflating of those experiments with cloud seeding or geo-engineering.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/wallops/CARE.html
The experiment happened, so what? In fact, there have been several other high altitude rocket experiments to study a variety of aspects of the atmosphere "at the edge of space". The bunk involves the duplicitous conflating of those experiments with cloud seeding or geo-engineering.
John Massaria
New Member
wait, your saying the planes that create "con"trails eventually fade away and create NO NEW clouds what so ever! lol. Wow... when I see completely blue skys not a cloud in the air, and I see jets stream a plume of harmless "vapor" (your words not mine- I believe they have chemicals in the condensation)
are you saying they eventually don't create clouds? That when I spend hours at the beach looking at the chem, sorry "con"trails, they just up and poof go away like steam? That the clouds that stay in the sky and leave long wielding streaks for hours and hours and spread apart masking the entire sky right before my eyes is NEW clouds blowing in the wind? Sorry... do my eyes tell me lies? Do I not see this every day, the spreading out of those vapor trails? The persistent lingering of clouds masking A PERFECTLY clear blue sky... right after some jet creates those CONtrails?
View attachment 1830
View attachment 1831
View attachment 1832
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Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John, we addressed the Case Orange two years ago RIGHT HERE. If you want to dispute anything about Case Orange, the thread is open for you to do so.
This has already been mentioned before, BTW, no one is overlooking what you say.....
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Rico
Senior Member.
Can you provide a link to the rest of the article?
Btw: JP-4 and JP-7 are military fuels. JP-7 isn't seen much as it was made for the SR-71 Black Bird.
John Massaria
New Member
explain to your audience here... and me... what was the primary mission for CARE again?
John Massaria
New Member
Title of that last one: Governing Geoengineering Research: A Political and Technical Vulnerability Analysis of Potential Near-Term Options... Solar radiation management could be used to offset some or all anthropogenic radiative forcing, with the goal of reducing some of the associated climatic change1, 2. However, the degree of compensation will vary, with residual climate changes larger in some regions than others. Similarly, the insolation reduction that best compensates climate changes in one region may not be the same as for another, leading to concerns about equity3. Here we show that optimizing the latitudinal and seasonal distribution of solar reduction can improve the fidelity with which solar radiation management offsets anthropogenic climate change. Using the HadCM3L general circulation model, we explore several trade-offs. First, residual temperature and precipitation changes in the worst-off region can be reduced by 30% relative to uniform solar reduction, with only a modest impact on global root-mean-square changes; this has implications for moderating regional inequalities. Second, the same root-mean-square residual climate changes can be obtained with up to 30% less insolation reduction, implying that it may be possible to reduce solar radiation management side-effects and risks (for example, ozone depletion if stratospheric sulphate aerosols are used). Finally, allowing spatial and temporal variability increases the range of trade-offs to be considered, raising the question of how to weight different objectives.
Rico
Senior Member.
Met Watch
Moderator
I was talking about cloud seeding, which is what that little snippet you provided (that I replied to) was discussing. Do not take words out of my mouth. Contrails are not cloud seeding.
Breaking News: Belief is not fact.
Again, taking words out of my mouth. You're certainly a master of that, aren't you? Contrails do not create clouds. They can spread out if atmospheric conditions are suitable for it. If the atmosphere is well saturated they will last for hours.
Your eyes don't tell you lies. You simply fail to understand the atmospheric science behind it, and your last few posts seem to indicate you have no intention to do so since you've pretty much made up your mind.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John Massaria said:
John,
Cloud seeding is not contrails. Contrails can and do create clouds, but all it takes to do that is the water vapor produced by combustion.
Twelve years ago I spoke to WWII vets including my own father who described exactly what you describe as happening behind their piston powered bombers:
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/deception5.html
In 1980, it was realized that over the US, ordinary water vapor contrails from planes happening to fly along could increase cloudiness. None of this is intentional, none is poison, none is metal, lead, or even sacharrine, none is geoengineering, none is intenional clud seeding, it is just water vapor frozen into clouds.
See this 1980 broadcast and the scientific paper explaining this:
http://contrailscience.com/1980-nbc-news-report-on-contrails/
solrey
Senior Member.
NO! Nobody said that contrails can't create contrail cirrus clouds. We're saying that CLOUD SEEDING does not create clouds, it only increases condensation nuclei, thus hypothetically increasing the number of droplets in air that already has enough existing moisture in it to produce rain. It still hasn't been scientifically proven that it can increase rainfall by 10-15% as claimed.
John Massaria
New Member
Since classified documents are not my forte or do I have access to them, I will use the "There are no drones" and then "oh wait, yes their are drones, it was just classified and we couldn't tell you..." or "there is no MK Ultra Program", and then "oh wait yes there was a MK Ultra Program- but it was classified"... as my final example of why this debate will go no where...
as long as clouds stream and stay in the air longer than a vapor cloud would, people like me say these programs are real... the satellite images say "CON"trail, I say its just a con... condensation doesn't cover the sky for that long... we all know they theorize and talk publicly about Geo-engineering but ITS ALL "TALK"... we aren't really doing it (wink wink).... (again- "just like there was no drones, now oh oh wait there were drones, but it was classified")... as long as there are "talks" and papers on spraying and shielding us from the sun radiation in hopes to prevent overheating and a global extinction event from the future... I believe they are exactly the same thing- classified.
as long as clouds stream and stay in the air longer than a vapor cloud would, people like me say these programs are real... the satellite images say "CON"trail, I say its just a con... condensation doesn't cover the sky for that long... we all know they theorize and talk publicly about Geo-engineering but ITS ALL "TALK"... we aren't really doing it (wink wink).... (again- "just like there was no drones, now oh oh wait there were drones, but it was classified")... as long as there are "talks" and papers on spraying and shielding us from the sun radiation in hopes to prevent overheating and a global extinction event from the future... I believe they are exactly the same thing- classified.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John Massaria said:
JOHN,
You keep quoting studies speaking of what COULD be taking place. The actual DATA is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU ABOVE. There is no need to speculate. The data show you EXACTLY what geoengineering would look like.
Do YOU see geoengineering in the data?
Answer, please.
If you will not you are blinding yourself to what you need to know.
John Massaria
New Member
ok... so I'm almost there... next one should wrap up my point... thanks for answering that one... perfectly... wish you admitted that from the start... now its just matter of "what the heck are they spraying now isn't it?" back to square one.... and my final post... seriously this has to end soon, its been fun and all but not that much fun... last one below...
Met Watch
Moderator
You can believe what you want. You get into trouble when you start asserting belief as fact.
And condensation doesn't cover the sky for that long? I'm sure you've witnessed enough overcast days to know this is a bogus claim? I live in the Northern Plains, John - we can have stretches of 3-4 days alone in the winter that are completely overcast. And guess what - overcast skies are just a lot of condensation.
John Massaria
New Member
I like that, they aren't sacharrine... thank goodness... and thank goodness you ACCEPT they create clouds that cover the sky... thanks we could have ended there...
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
John, the data is not classified. There is no further use to "believe" or speculate. This is worldwide public information.
The data can be sourced and documented, do you see geoengineering in the graph of solar transmission above?
Do you or do you not?
solrey
Senior Member.
Condensation frequently covers the sky in the form of solid overcast stratus for days and days on end during the winter months here in the Pacific Northwest. Regardless of whether anyone believes any denials that geo-engineering is happening, the scientific observations of optical transmission of the atmosphere among other parameters, demonstrate the fact there simply is no evidence that geo-engineering is actually taking place.
John Massaria
New Member
View attachment 1833 View attachment 1834View attachment 1835
These are covering the sky... and they come from planes... we established this... I guess your point is what they are made of is WATER and no toxins and I SAY its classified and even you don't know... unless you have access to Classified Docs. If a total extinction level event is on the horizon, im sure that is classified too... and preventative measures would again be classified.
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Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
Why are you dodging my questions about this graph, John?
Does it threaten you?
It is just a graph, and either you see the signs of geoengineering, or you don't.
Don't dodge the question.
I've asked three timesin the past 30 minutes.
If you won't answer it looks like you are afraid of the graph.
View attachment 1837
Does it threaten you?
It is just a graph, and either you see the signs of geoengineering, or you don't.
Don't dodge the question.
I've asked three timesin the past 30 minutes.
If you won't answer it looks like you are afraid of the graph.
View attachment 1837
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Rico
Senior Member.
What folks here do know is that water vapour is enough to create a cloud no different than some of the stuff that is naturally occuring (i.e., cirrus clouds), because the composition is the same. The visible stuff is the water. Whether the stuff that comes out of aircraft exhaust is all that hazardous is subject to debate. I've worked on the ground at a major hub airport for a few years breathing in jet fumes, and I still feel pretty healthy. If you fear that airplane exhausts are killing us, I think that is going on a pretty big assumption. I highly doubt the next extinction level event will be because of aircraft--there are far worst things out there.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
sources (documented, with links and discussion):
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/11...bunks-quot-Chemtrails-are-Geoengineering-quot
John, what do you say?
Nothing to fear.
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John Massaria
New Member
View attachment 1838
We have the planes, we have the Patent and we have a need and motive to use it... yet we are not using it... So Means, Motive and Opportunity...
Also, while we are here, lets go here to:
Since again, I nor you have any access to classified docs, lets look at what else is available... more studies yes, more "need" is clearly explained explained... but again IF we are actually using this is, it would have to be classifed as I mentioned before...
[h=1]Governing Geoengineering Research[/h]
[h=2]A Political and Technical Vulnerability Analysis of Potential Near-Term Options[/h]
http://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR846.html
We have the planes, we have the Patent and we have a need and motive to use it... yet we are not using it... So Means, Motive and Opportunity...
Also, while we are here, lets go here to:
Since again, I nor you have any access to classified docs, lets look at what else is available... more studies yes, more "need" is clearly explained explained... but again IF we are actually using this is, it would have to be classifed as I mentioned before...
[h=1]Governing Geoengineering Research[/h]
[h=2]A Political and Technical Vulnerability Analysis of Potential Near-Term Options[/h]
http://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_reports/TR846.html
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John Massaria
New Member
I am busy putting up more relevant data... catch up to me...
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John Massaria
New Member
I'm looking at a chart of Volcanic Eruptions? Data sampled in ONE area on the globe? Sorry, this confusses me... we have the incentive, the means (Patents) and opportunity (the planes are all ready to spray) and motive (earth is heating up) .... and we even have dozens of papers on geoengineering.... but we aren't using them? ok.... got it... I got it... YOU are not seeing the classified docs as mentioned here already... and neither am I... because why? they are classified.
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