Boston: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev criminal complaint full text

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Complaint just released. Likely to be the source of new conspiracy theories.

View attachment dzhokhar_tsarnaev_criminal_complaint_130421 1847 OCR.pdf

 

Mackdog

Senior Member.
I wonder if they will ever release the video footage that this FBI agent is talking about...
 

lotek

Active Member
i would be surprised to see it anytime soon. nor would i expect to or think we have a non egotistical reason to.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The terms "weapons of mass destruction" is causing some confusion. It's from:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

And section 921 is:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a

 

lotek

Active Member
ugg. ive encountered this bit of law while playing with potato guns.... confusing term associations for sure.
 

davefb

New Member
So basically, any bomb? (So iraq DID have wmd!)

Have they ever charged any other bomber with using WMD ?
 

frederico

New Member
Hello, first post here, long time reader

Just to note in the affidavit it includes part 8
Seems a bit gratuitous, but apparently is so that they can pursue the death penalty on a federal level as Massachusetts does not have the penalty
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So basically, any bomb? (So iraq DID have wmd!)

Have they ever charged any other bomber with using WMD ?

Yes, examples:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/44203/Bomber-facing-a-stretch.html
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/04/bridge-bomber_suspects_trial_s.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/29/najibullah-zazi-to-be-arr_n_302654.html
But definitions vary between Military and Civilian, and there's some confusion. Iraq did not have WMDs under the meaning of the term in the military context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction#Definitions_of_the_term
 

davefb

New Member
Yes, example:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/44203/Bomber-facing-a-stretch.html
But definitions vary between Military and Civilian, and there's some confusion. Iraq did not have WMDs under the meaning of the term in the military context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction#Definitions_of_the_term

Well , I'm with that guys lawyer, if they'd slapped uranium round the device or put it into a tanker, then maybe so.. but these are "just" normal bombs made to injure people. Not "nice" but to call it a WMD seems politically motivated.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
Well , I'm with that guys lawyer, if they'd slapped uranium round the device or put it into a tanker, then maybe so.. but these are "just" normal bombs made to injure people. Not "nice" but to call it a WMD seems politically motivated.

So what should we consider the definition of "mass destruction?" Two people? Five? A hundred? Not people but things? A room? A house? A city block? A city?

As I've said before, it ends up going to perspective.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well , I'm with that guys lawyer, if they'd slapped uranium round the device or put it into a tanker, then maybe so.. but these are "just" normal bombs made to injure people. Not "nice" but to call it a WMD seems politically motivated.

It's just the legal definition in the criminal code. WMD has acquired a particular meaning in popular culture since the Iraq war. But this legal definition predates it.

It's a bit like calling a car a "deadly weapon". That's quite jarring to a lot of people.
 

davefb

New Member
It's just the legal definition in the criminal code. WMD has acquired a particular meaning in popular culture since the Iraq war. But this legal definition predates it.

It's a bit like calling a car a "deadly weapon". That's quite jarring to a lot of people.

when did it change? because the wtc bomber doesn't appear to have been charged with wmd? it just seems political in order to get the death penalty there.

mcveigh did, but he used a fuel bomb, which I thought was in a wmd in military definition as well? (edit: . i'm confused, i was mixing a fuel bomb with a fuel air bomb.. not the same..)

[edit]
gah, maybe googling fuel bomb isn't a great idea...... some interesting looking links there.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
when did it change? because the wtc bomber doesn't appear to have been charged with wmd? it just seems political in order to get the death penalty there.

mcveigh did, but he used a fuel bomb, which I thought was in a wmd in military definition as well?

1994 (a year after the 1993 WTC bombing). With the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which greatly expanded the Federal death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

Here's a 1998 paper discussing the problem of definition
http://www.ndu.edu/centercounter/full_doc.pdf
 

davefb

New Member
1994. With the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, which greatly expanded the Federal death penalty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

Here's a 1998 paper discussing the problem of definition
http://www.ndu.edu/centercounter/full_doc.pdf

so next question/answer.

why not the atlanta olympics bomber?


or this all a 'ruse' to 'encourage' a guilty plea bargain ?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
so next question/answer.

why not the atlanta olympics bomber?


or this all a 'ruse' to 'encourage' a guilty plea bargain ?

I don't know what the motivation is. But obviously plea deals for lesser charges are not uncommon.
 
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