Bombs and Israeli involvement in 911

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Eddie

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You can actually read the FBI reports on the Israelis that were arrested now. Clearly they were involved. Yet, large parts of the reports are redacted. I don't see the excuse for that if there is nothing to hide.

Here's a video which goes through the text in detail:



Full reports and information here:
http://www.takeourworldback.com/dancingisraelisfbireport.htm


Videos detailing evidence for bombs and Israeli Involvement:


 
Well if you look at the full document, large sections are covered up.

But why release it at all? Even releasing a small section that could potentially give away the "truth" would be such a dumb move by the FBI. Why not just classify, and keep classified, the entire document?
 
Well, i would say they messed up. But obviously someone felt it okay to partly declassify it.

From the above link:
"The documents were partly declassified in 2005. However, there are many parts that are still blanked out and classified until 2030 or 2035. Apart from names of individuals, the unreleased material includes longer passages such as the section following the question: "1. Did the Israeli nationals have foreknowledge of the events at WTC and were they filming the events prior to and in anticipation of the explosion?" The fact that it's blanked out indicates that the answer is clearly not an emphatic "no"."

They left the most important parts classified which would give clear answers. However, based on what we have and with careful analysis it is possible to see that they must have known and seems pretty likely they were involved.
 
Well, i would say they messed up. But obviously someone felt it okay to partly declassify it.

From the above link:
"The documents were partly declassified in 2005. However, there are many parts that are still blanked out and classified until 2030 or 2035. Apart from names of individuals, the unreleased material includes longer passages such as the section following the question: "1. Did the Israeli nationals have foreknowledge of the events at WTC and were they filming the events prior to and in anticipation of the explosion?" The fact that it's blanked out indicates that the answer is clearly not an emphatic "no"."

They left the most important parts classified which would give clear answers. However, based on what we have and with careful analysis it is possible to see that they must have known and seems pretty likely they were involved.

So, they're genius enough to have this attack happen, but not smart enough to keep a small bit of evidence classified? Just like your last paragraph, why even allow that suspicion to be raised? Why not classify the entire document? And sorry, "I think they messed up" is not a good enough answer. Doesn't it seem more logical that this information just wasn't important and probably turned out to be nothing? The parts that are covered up are probably just to protect the innocent? Doesn't that make more sense than them declassifying such an "important" document and potentially compromising their entire operation?
 
Eddie, can you explain to us how exactly how exactly these "Israelis" were "clearly involved"? I presume you by "involved" mean orchestrating the attacks?

Because what I find on http://www.takeourworldback.com/dancingisraelisfbireport.htm#analysis is just a big JAQing off.
The analysis consist mainly about "they said this but they did that instead", and somehow this make them liars, which proves their involvement...

Can it be that many of these inconsistencies are simply due to the suspect's own failure to recollect the exact time they did particular things?
It doesn't require a lot of imagination to realize how chaotic their day must had been and how it completely messed up their lives.
Can one expect these individuals to have photographic memory of everything they did that day, the exact time and the exact right order?

Did these Israeli know the full scope of the events at the time they were witnessing it? Likely not. Which of course contributed to them acting "goofy".

Also just because someone at some point had information that something was being planned doesn't mean the said individual or group had full access to the plans of what was being planned. Both US and Israeli intelligence had known for a decade that Bin Laden had wishes to attack US targets. This doesn't mean either intelligence agency knew exactly what was going on. But once it happened people immediately started to speculate if this could be the work of "Osama". That doesn't mean the government or the media "forced" this view on the public in order to hide something else. Osama was a wanted man prior to 911, suspected for several attacks against US targets. It's not strange that news voices started to suspect his involvement quite immediately.
 
So, they're genius enough to have this attack happen, but not smart enough to keep a small bit of evidence classified? Just like your last paragraph, why even allow that suspicion to be raised? Why not classify the entire document? And sorry, "I think they messed up" is not a good enough answer. Doesn't it seem more logical that this information just wasn't important and probably turned out to be nothing? The parts that are covered up are probably just to protect the innocent? Doesn't that make more sense than them declassifying such an "important" document and potentially compromising their entire operation?

Declassifying it for 30 years just to "protect the innocent"? I think it makes more sense that the information there is rather more damaging than that!

Eddie, can you explain to us how exactly how exactly these "Israelis" were "clearly involved"? I presume you by "involved" mean orchestrating the attacks?

Because what I find on http://www.takeourworldback.com/dancingisraelisfbireport.htm#analysis is just a big JAQing off.
The analysis consist mainly about "they said this but they did that instead", and somehow this make them liars, which proves their involvement...

Can it be that many of these inconsistencies are simply due to the suspect's own failure to recollect the exact time they did particular things?
It doesn't require a lot of imagination to realize how chaotic their day must had been and how it completely messed up their lives.
Can one expect these individuals to have photographic memory of everything they did that day, the exact time and the exact right order?

Did these Israeli know the full scope of the events at the time they were witnessing it? Likely not. Which of course contributed to them acting "goofy".

Also just because someone at some point had information that something was being planned doesn't mean the said individual or group had full access to the plans of what was being planned. Both US and Israeli intelligence had known for a decade that Bin Laden had wishes to attack US targets. This doesn't mean either intelligence agency knew exactly what was going on. But once it happened people immediately started to speculate if this could be the work of "Osama". That doesn't mean the government or the media "forced" this view on the public in order to hide something else. Osama was a wanted man prior to 911, suspected for several attacks against US targets. It's not strange that news voices started to suspect his involvement quite immediately.

They weren't acting "goofy". They were making things up. Their behavior is obviously suspicious. I would suggest you read the files.

If you can accept for a moment that at least they had foreknowledge, then shouldn't we be asking why? And let's remember that Israel actually benefited from American being attacked in such a way. Now everyone was looking at fighting against Islamic terrorism just like them.
 
Declassifying it for 30 years just to "protect the innocent"? I think it makes more sense that the information there is rather more damaging than that!

Again, it's "I think"; that's not good enough. An opinion doesn't equal facts. I'm just asking you the simple question of why would they knowingly let this information out if it was so damaging?
 
Again, it's "I think" rather than "I know because of this source." Again, why would they knowingly let this information out if it was so damaging?

Come on, you and I both know that we can't know that for sure. I would say that they didn't think it was damaging OR it was released without them realising those parts actually have some significance. And it's not actually it's not immediately obvious that what's been declassified is significant because it does take some careful analysis. If you accept just for a moment that the official story is false and that elements of the US and Israel (and whoever else) helped bring about these attacks - then it would be extremely difficult to have complete control and cover up every single detail. Obviously some things are going to slip the net. Think about how it would work. It's not like the whole FBI are gonna be in on it and spending their whole time on each piece of evidence on 911. There would only be a very few individuals in key positions.

Anyway why don't we talk about the evidence? Just talking about why they let out this information does not detract from the evidence.
 
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Come on, you and I both know that we can't know that for sure. I would say that they didn't think it was damaging OR it was released without them realising those parts actually have some significance. And it's not actually it's not immediately obvious that what's been declassified is significant because it does take some careful analysis. If you accept just for a moment that the official story is false and that elements of the US and Israel (and whoever else) helped bring about these attacks - then it would be extremely difficult to have complete control and cover up every single detail. Obviously some things are going to slip the net. Think about how it would work. It's not like the whole FBI are gonna be in on it and spending their whole time on each piece of evidence on 911. There would only be a very few individuals in key positions.

Anyway why don't we talk about the evidence? Just talking about why they let out this information does not detract from the evidence.

Then please provide a narrative for 9/11.
 
Then please provide a narrative for 9/11.

I thought you were going to discuss the evidence of these particular Israelis' foreknowledge since that's what is the main topic.

If you want me to give my opinion on the whole thing then that would take some time, but I would rather start a new thread for that.
 
They weren't acting "goofy".

Yes they were, that is what brought them under suspicion to begin with. If they would had just stood there in horror like most other New York citizen they would obviously not have been noticed by many, if any.
But how they reacted to the event just doesn't prove anything, other than that individuals can react differently depending on background. Most New York citizen were not used to see these type of events with their own eyes, other than through a television set, scenes from a far away country. But these Israelis even stated themselves that they were excited at first because terrorist attacks happens almost on a daily basis in parts of Israel, and now it was happening on US soil.

Did these Israeli youngsters realize the full scope of the attack at this point? No.
Did they act appropriately? No.

Reacting inappropriately to horrific events is nothing unusual and it's part of our adrenaline system. The question is if these youngsters were fooling around because of this, or because they were used to see terrorist attacks, or if they acted through a psychological phenomenon called deindividuation, where individuals loose a sense of personal responsibility when acting in groups. Perhaps it was a combination of all of these. Who knows?

Just because they fooled around with a camera and documenting the events unfolding doesn't mean these individuals had foreknowledge of the events, if that is what you suggest. In that case you should also suspect Jules Naudet since he was on site before the attacks and had perfect view to record the first impact. That's very suspicious is it not? But he is not a Jew, so I guess that doesn't make him a suspect.~


They were making things up.

There is no argue that these individuals got suspected for involvement at first. The days following the attacks no stone went unturned in search for culprits.
I don't argue that they made up things at some points just to lessen their obvious failure to respond appropriately and respectfully to the attacks.
If you would have been caught for somehow acting disrespectfully to a tragic event, and became a world wide celebrity because of it, would you not try to prevent yourself from looking like a stupid idiot?
I don't find it suspicious that these persons tried to tweak story elements to not make them look like insensitive jackasses. They were obviously incredibly embarrassed for what they did.


Their behavior is obviously suspicious.

But motive doesn't equal proof of motive. And just because you find their behaviour "odd" doesn't mean they are guilty of anything but acting inappropriately. Behaving inappropriately doesn't mean you must be in on something.
Remember the shootings at Utøya, Norway? A second shooter was suspected at first because he was acting "odd", which meant he seemed to be emotionally unaffected by the mass murder happening around him. But he was cleared of suspicion because besides his lack of "appropriate" emotional response there was absolutely zero evidence that could tie him as a collaborator of the shootings. I even believe I read that this individual were born and raised in a country were violence was part of daily life, and because of this his mental state was significantly unaffected compared to everybody else.


I would suggest you read the files.

Thank you but I've known this case for many many years now. I've read about the Urban Moving Company ect. I've read the reports. I find it funny how this whole story is turned into "proof" for a grand conspiracy, just so that some fringe groups can pin the blame on the Jews. It really is despicable.

If you can accept for a moment that at least they had foreknowledge, then shouldn't we be asking why? And let's remember that Israel actually benefited from American being attacked in such a way. Now everyone was looking at fighting against Islamic terrorism just like them.

You talk like there had been no "Islamic" threats towards US prior to 911.
 
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I thought you were going to discuss the evidence of these particular Israelis' foreknowledge since that's what is the main topic.

If you want me to give my opinion on the whole thing then that would take some time, but I would rather start a new thread for that.

I want a narrative because without it, all you have is anomalies. In reference to your other post, in order for the story to be true that this wasn't Islamic terrorists per the official story, the following organizations would have had to be involved in some way, shape, or form;

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),
the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE),
the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations,
the New York City Department of Design and Construction,
the Structural Engineers Association of New York,
the National Fire Protection Association,
the Society of Fire Protection Engineers,
the American Concrete Institute,
the Building and Construction Trades Council,
the American Institute of Steel Construction,
the Masonry Society,
the Pentagon security staff,
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
hundreds of steelworkers, some of whom built the WTC,
the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat,
United Laboratories,
the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory,
Controlled Demolitions, Inc.
Bovis, Inc.
Tully Construction
AEMC Construction
Karl Koch Steel Consulting, Inc.
The United Steelworkers of America
the Armed Forces Institute of Technology
the Federal Advisory Committee,
several DNA labs,
Numerous Forensic Pathologists,
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists,
Numerous Forensic Dentists,
Numerous Forensic Radiologists,
the National Medical Response Team,
the International Association of Fire Chiefs
the New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
the Fire Department of New York,
the New York City Office of Emergency Management,
the New York State Emergency Management Office,
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
the Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Arlington, VA Police Department,41
the Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Pentagon Fire Unit,
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Helicopter Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
several FBI Hazmat Teams,
several EPA Hazmat Teams,
the Virginia State Police,
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the DOD Honor Guard
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the Washington, D.C. Fire Department,
the California Incident Management Team,
the Shanksville, PA VFD,
the Somerset County Coroner's Office,
the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
the Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
the State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
the Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
the Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services,
the Salvation Army Disaster Services,
the National Emergency Numbering Association
the 911 operators who took the calls from passengers,
the American Red Cross,
the National Guard in D.C., NYC, and PA.,
the Air National Guard,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
the United States Secret Service,
the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,
the New York Port Authority Police,
the New York Port Authority Construction Board
the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute,
the World Trade Center security staff,
the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York
United Airlines,
American Airlines,
the Office of Emergency Preparedness
Several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams,
Several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team,
the Virginia State Police42
Many other Urban Search and Rescue Teams
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the US Department of Defense,
the US Department of Justice,
the US Department of State,
the National Response Center,
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the Counterterrorism and Security Group,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes,
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Falcon 20 crew in PA,
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Transportation Safety Board,
the New York Flight Control Center,
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington,
the Cleveland Airport control tower,
the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee,
the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
the New York Times,
the Boston Globe,
the Wall Street Journal,
the Washington Post,
Newsday,
United Press International,
Associated Press,
CNN,
ABC,
NBC,
CBS,
etc., etc., etc

None of these organizations support conspiracy theories.
 
Yes they were, that is what brought them under suspicion to begin with. If they would had just stood there in horror like most other New York citizen they would obviously not have been noticed by many, if any.
But how they reacted to the event just doesn't prove anything, other than that individuals can react differently depending on background. Most New York citizen were not used to see these type of events with their own eyes, other than through a television set, scenes from a far away country. But these Israelis even stated themselves that they were excited at first because terrorist attacks happens almost on a daily basis in parts of Israel, and now it was happening on US soil.

Did these Israeli youngsters realize the full scope of the attack at this point? No.
Did they act appropriately? No.

Reacting inappropriately to horrific events is nothing unusual and it's part of our adrenaline system. The question is if these youngsters were fooling around because of this, or because they were used to see terrorist attacks, or if they acted through a psychological phenomenon called deindividuation, where individuals loose a sense of personal responsibility when acting in groups. Perhaps it was a combination of all of these. Who knows?

Just because they fooled around with a camera and documenting the events unfolding doesn't mean these individuals had foreknowledge of the events, if that is what you suggest. In that case you should also suspect Jules Naudet since he was on site before the attacks and had perfect view to record the first impact. That's very suspicious is it not?




There is no argue that these individuals got suspected for involvement at first. The days following the attacks no stone went unturned in search for culprits.
I don't argue that they made up things at some points just to lessen their obvious failure to respond appropriately and respectfully to the attacks.
If you would have been caught for somehow acting disrespectfully to a tragic event, and became a world wide celebrity because of it, would you not try to prevent yourself from looking like a stupid idiot?
I don't find it suspicious that these persons tried to tweak story elements to not make them look like insensitive jackasses. They were obviously incredibly embarrassed for what they did.




But motive doesn't equal proof of motive. And just because you find their behaviour "odd" doesn't mean they are guilty of anything but acting inappropriately. Behaving inappropriately doesn't mean you must be in on something.
Remember the shootings at Utøya, Norway? A second shooter was suspected at first because he was acting "odd", which meant he seemed to be emotionally unaffected by the mass murder happening around him. But he was cleared of suspicion because besides his lack of "appropriate" emotional response there was absolutely zero evidence that could tie him as a collaborator of the shootings. I even believe I read that this individual were born and raised in a country were violence was part of daily life, and because of this his mental state was significantly unaffected compared to everybody else.




Thank you but I've known this case for many many years now. I've read about the Urban Moving Company ect. I've read the reports. I find it funny how this whole story is turned into "proof" for a grand conspiracy, just so that some fringe groups can pin the blame on the Jews. It really is despicable.



You talk like there had been no "Islamic" threats towards US prior to 911.

No, you're missing the point. Anything that you read before about this case is not exactly the same as what is in the FBI files. These further show that there story is all over the place. They made things up completely with the wrong times and said they there were in places they weren't. It wasn't to stop themselves seeming insensitive lol. There is no reason to say the things they said if that was the case. There were hiding something. None of their stories matched and it kept changing. The FBI still had a reason to investigate further into them as they questioned the owner of Urban Moving Systems, dominik suter, and were going to interview him again but he had fled back to Israel. He was also an FBI's list of people in connection with 911.
 
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I want a narrative because without it, all you have is anomalies. In reference to your other post, in order for the story to be true that this wasn't Islamic terrorists per the official story, the following organizations would have had to be involved in some way, shape, or form;

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),
the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE),
the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations,
the New York City Department of Design and Construction,
the Structural Engineers Association of New York,
the National Fire Protection Association,
the Society of Fire Protection Engineers,
the American Concrete Institute,
the Building and Construction Trades Council,
the American Institute of Steel Construction,
the Masonry Society,
the Pentagon security staff,
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
hundreds of steelworkers, some of whom built the WTC,
the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat,
United Laboratories,
the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory,
Controlled Demolitions, Inc.
Bovis, Inc.
Tully Construction
AEMC Construction
Karl Koch Steel Consulting, Inc.
The United Steelworkers of America
the Armed Forces Institute of Technology
the Federal Advisory Committee,
several DNA labs,
Numerous Forensic Pathologists,
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists,
Numerous Forensic Dentists,
Numerous Forensic Radiologists,
the National Medical Response Team,
the International Association of Fire Chiefs
the New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
the Fire Department of New York,
the New York City Office of Emergency Management,
the New York State Emergency Management Office,
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
the Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Arlington, VA Police Department,41
the Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Pentagon Fire Unit,
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Helicopter Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
several FBI Hazmat Teams,
several EPA Hazmat Teams,
the Virginia State Police,
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the DOD Honor Guard
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the Washington, D.C. Fire Department,
the California Incident Management Team,
the Shanksville, PA VFD,
the Somerset County Coroner's Office,
the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
the Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
the State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
the Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
the Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services,
the Salvation Army Disaster Services,
the National Emergency Numbering Association
the 911 operators who took the calls from passengers,
the American Red Cross,
the National Guard in D.C., NYC, and PA.,
the Air National Guard,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
the United States Secret Service,
the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,
the New York Port Authority Police,
the New York Port Authority Construction Board
the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute,
the World Trade Center security staff,
the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York
United Airlines,
American Airlines,
the Office of Emergency Preparedness
Several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams,
Several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team,
the Virginia State Police42
Many other Urban Search and Rescue Teams
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the US Department of Defense,
the US Department of Justice,
the US Department of State,
the National Response Center,
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the Counterterrorism and Security Group,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes,
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Falcon 20 crew in PA,
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Transportation Safety Board,
the New York Flight Control Center,
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington,
the Cleveland Airport control tower,
the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee,
the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
the New York Times,
the Boston Globe,
the Wall Street Journal,
the Washington Post,
Newsday,
United Press International,
Associated Press,
CNN,
ABC,
NBC,
CBS,
etc., etc., etc

None of these organizations support conspiracy theories.

I think this shows your lack of understanding of how this would work. That's if you genuinely think that, and you're not just trying to annoy me. "none of these organizations support conspiracy theories" - actually some of them do given that conspiracies happen all the time and news organizations and law enforcement investigate them and theorize on them!!
 
I want a narrative because without it, all you have is anomalies. In reference to your other post, in order for the story to be true that this wasn't Islamic terrorists per the official story, the following organizations would have had to be involved in some way, shape, or form;

the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA),
the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE),
the National Council of Structural Engineers Associations,
the New York City Department of Design and Construction,
the Structural Engineers Association of New York,
the National Fire Protection Association,
the Society of Fire Protection Engineers,
the American Concrete Institute,
the Building and Construction Trades Council,
the American Institute of Steel Construction,
the Masonry Society,
the Pentagon security staff,
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
hundreds of steelworkers, some of whom built the WTC,
the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat,
United Laboratories,
the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory,
Controlled Demolitions, Inc.
Bovis, Inc.
Tully Construction
AEMC Construction
Karl Koch Steel Consulting, Inc.
The United Steelworkers of America
the Armed Forces Institute of Technology
the Federal Advisory Committee,
several DNA labs,
Numerous Forensic Pathologists,
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists,
Numerous Forensic Dentists,
Numerous Forensic Radiologists,
the National Medical Response Team,
the International Association of Fire Chiefs
the New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
the Fire Department of New York,
the New York City Office of Emergency Management,
the New York State Emergency Management Office,
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
the Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Arlington, VA Police Department,41
the Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Pentagon Fire Unit,
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Helicopter Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
several FBI Hazmat Teams,
several EPA Hazmat Teams,
the Virginia State Police,
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the DOD Honor Guard
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the Washington, D.C. Fire Department,
the California Incident Management Team,
the Shanksville, PA VFD,
the Somerset County Coroner's Office,
the Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
the Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
the State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
the Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
the Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services,
the Salvation Army Disaster Services,
the National Emergency Numbering Association
the 911 operators who took the calls from passengers,
the American Red Cross,
the National Guard in D.C., NYC, and PA.,
the Air National Guard,
the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
the United States Secret Service,
the Central Intelligence Agency,
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms,
the New York Port Authority Police,
the New York Port Authority Construction Board
the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute,
the World Trade Center security staff,
the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for the City of New York
United Airlines,
American Airlines,
the Office of Emergency Preparedness
Several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams,
Several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team,
the Virginia State Police42
Many other Urban Search and Rescue Teams
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the US Department of Defense,
the US Department of Justice,
the US Department of State,
the National Response Center,
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the Counterterrorism and Security Group,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
three E-4B National Airborne Operations Center planes,
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Falcon 20 crew in PA,
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams,
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the National Transportation Safety Board,
the New York Flight Control Center,
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington,
the Cleveland Airport control tower,
the Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee,
the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
the New York Times,
the Boston Globe,
the Wall Street Journal,
the Washington Post,
Newsday,
United Press International,
Associated Press,
CNN,
ABC,
NBC,
CBS,
etc., etc., etc

None of these organizations support conspiracy theories.
Hmm. Seems plausible. I mean, all of the above-listed fall under the heading of "Them", so it totally makes sense. o_O
 
I think this shows your lack of understanding of how this would work. That's if you genuinely think that, and you're not just trying to annoy me. "none of these organizations support conspiracy theories" - actually some of them do given that conspiracies happen all the time and news organizations and law enforcement investigate them and theorize on them!!

I'm still looking for a valid reason as to why the FBI would release this information beyond "I think..."
 
No, you're missing the point. Anything that you read before about this case is not exactly the same as what is in the FBI files.

External Quote:
The documents were partly declassified in 2005.
So you say I haven't read it before?


These further show that there story is all over the place. They made things up completely with the wrong times and said they there were in places they weren't. It wasn't to stop themselves seeming insensitive lol. There is no reason to say the things they said if that was the case. There were hiding something. None of their stories matched and it kept changing. The FBI still had a reason to investigate further into them as they questioned the owner of Urban Moving Systems, dominik suter, and were going to interview him again but he had fled back to Israel. He was also an FBI's list of people in connection with 911.


And you cannot think of any other reason for the owner to avoid US government other than because of being an actual Israeli spy?
Perhaps he was avoiding possible unreported employment charges because he was employing people without reporting it to the state?
Why do you think these youngsters were caught with larger sums of cash? Because Suter had likely paid them directly in hand to avoid having to pay taxes and similar law related duties required by employers.
This means Suter would have been likely to face millions in fines if evidence was discovered for this. He knew that his company was under heavy investigation at this point, hence why he took no chances, shut down the whole business and simply fled the scene.

It is definitely not an unrealistic narrative, but it's just my own guess. Obviously Suter himself is not going to reveal anything about it. But my narrative is much less extraordinary compared to them being "Israeli spies", and the most careless and unintelligent spies in history for that matter.
 
External Quote:
The documents were partly declassified in 2005.
So you say I haven't read it before?

Yes that you use the fact that they were partly declassified back in 2005 to suggest that you read them shows your dishonesty. Although they were there, it wasn't until 2011 as far as I can tell, that they actually appeared in full on the Internet. This was because someone actually wrote to the FBI under freedom of information request.

Let me stress again that Suter was wanted in relation to 9/11 as he was listed on an FBI list of terrorist suspects:
Http://antiwar.com/justin/CI-08-02.pdf
 
Yes that you use the fact that they were partly declassified back in 2005 to suggest that you read them shows your dishonesty. Although they were there, it wasn't until 2011 as far as I can tell, that they actually appeared in full on the Internet. ...

But they're still only partly declassified aren't they? Hence all the blacking out.

How much was released this time compared to last time?
 
Yes that you use the fact that they were partly declassified back in 2005 to suggest that you read them shows your dishonesty. Although they were there, it wasn't until 2011 as far as I can tell, that they actually appeared in full on the Internet. This was because someone actually wrote to the FBI under freedom of information request.

Yes, made available on the internet.
I did not say I read them on the internet before they were put on the internet did I?
I said I have read these files when they were made available on the net, just like most other people. But I do have read them before.

Sorry If I gave you the the impression I meant otherwise. I just wanted to show you that these documents have likely been available to the public since after 2005 through FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). They have not been a secret since 2005. Call me dishonest all you want.





Let me stress again that Suter was wanted in relation to 9/11 as he was listed on an FBI list of terrorist suspects:
Http://antiwar.com/justin/CI-08-02.pdf

And so was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Mustafa al-Hawsawi and Ramzi bin al-Shibh and several others - people who were actually charged for orchestrating the attacks. It's funny how Suter were never charged like the others if he was so clearly involved. But I guess to you it must mean the rabbit hole goes deeper, right? You just have to pin the blame on the Jews.
 
But they're still only partly declassified aren't they? Hence all the blacking out.

How much was released this time compared to last time?

Right, only partly declassified. The most significant parts are blacked out. It was declassified only once in 2005 but seemingly has only been in the public domain since 2011 after someone who filed FOIA request with the FBI then uploaded the documents on the internet.

you can read it all on Scribd: http://www.scribd.com/collections/4010452/9-11-The-Dancing-Israelis-FBI-report

Yes, made available on the internet.
I did not say I read them on the internet before they were put on the internet did I?
I said I have read these files when they were made available on the net, just like most other people. But I do have read them before.

Sorry If I gave you the the impression I meant otherwise. I just wanted to show you that these documents have likely been available to the public since after 2005 through FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). They have not been a secret since 2005. Call me dishonest all you want.




And so was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Mustafa al-Hawsawi and Ramzi bin al-Shibh and several others - people who were actually charged for orchestrating the attacks. It's funny how Suter were never charged like the others if he was so clearly involved. But I guess to you it must mean the rabbit hole goes deeper, right? You just have to pin the blame on the Jews.

I do not pin the blame on "the Jews" - another pathetic jibe which offers nothing. If Dominik Suter was linked to the Mossad then do you really think that the US would pursue them, given that elements in the Bush administration were also involved?

Also look at the neocons involved with PNAC. They were quite clear about their aims for the world, but importantly noted that it would be difficult absent an event like pearl harbor, which of course arrived just a few years later. Many of these neocons are Israeli dual citizens, some with strong connections to Israeli political leaders. This is significant. It's not antisemitism to point this out. With the way the relationship between ISrael and the US has grown over the years it may seem normal now. However, what would you think if they were all dual citizens with China or North korea or whatever?

Of course other non-Jews were in PNAC too, significantly Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, and they are just as guilty. Donald Rumsfeld was number 1 in command when Bush was stuck in that elementary school, and did absolutely nothing, showed no leadership whatsoever. Many of these PNAC members had key positions in the Bush administration. This is not normal. For these two nations to be so intertwined inevitably creates the situation where the interests of one nation are going to affect the other. That Israel and political zionists would want to influence US policy makes perfect sense. For they have more to gain. Israel is one of the only nations that would have the motive, the access, and technical capability to carry out an operation like 911. However, if you don't even think that explosives were involved on 911, then it might be difficult for you to see this.
 
I do not pin the blame on "the Jews" - another pathetic jibe which offers nothing.

But in the end the effect will be that the Israeli state is to blame for 911. I know you probably have notions about the differences between "Jews" and "Zionists" but in the end it all stems from the same prejudice held against Jews as an ethnic group. I don't think your intention is to "blame all Jews", but be aware that these ideas you claim stem from this type of prejudice held against them.

If Dominik Suter was linked to the Mossad then do you really think that the US would pursue them, given that elements in the Bush administration were also involved?

But you are just assuming that the Bush administrations were "involved". And you don't know if their alleged "involvement" had anything to do with with Suter or if they would be connectible to Suter in any way. You only assume this to maintain some level of consistency for your narrative.

Why did US declassify the FBI information to begin with if the material was so sensitive? Why give hints to the public if there ever was a strong connection? FBI could easily just kept it classified, or destroyed the documents if the information was so incredibly sensitive.

I'm sorry but you are not getting anywhere with your points.
 
But in the end the effect will be that the Israeli state is to blame for 911. I know you probably have notions about the differences between "Jews" and "Zionists" but in the end it all stems from the same prejudice held against Jews as an ethnic group. I don't think your intention is to "blame all Jews", but be aware that these ideas you claim stem from this type of prejudice held against them.



But you are just assuming that the Bush administrations were "involved". And you don't know if their alleged "involvement" had anything to do with with Suter or if they would be connectible to Suter in any way. You only assume this to maintain some level of consistency for your narrative.

Why did US declassify the FBI information to begin with if the material was so sensitive? Why give hints to the public if there ever was a strong connection? FBI could easily just kept it classified, or destroyed the documents if the information was so incredibly sensitive.

I'm sorry but you are not getting anywhere with your points.

Yes I am assuming some people in the Bush administration were involved. It doesn't mean they were directly connected to Suter. I am trying to theorize why they would let it go. Anyway 'the FBI', as in all of it, wasn't involved. If anyone in the FBI was complicit then it's only a few key individuals.

And so was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Mustafa al-Hawsawi and Ramzi bin al-Shibh and several others - people who were actually charged for orchestrating the attacks. It's funny how Suter were never charged like the others if he was so clearly involved. But I guess to you it must mean the rabbit hole goes deeper, right? You just have to pin the blame on the Jews.

The FBI declassification may have come separately from those not involved, and 'mrtinfoil' it was reported that those working on the case were actually stopped early because of pressure from higher ups in Washington. So it may have been that in their eyes, that was enough. That would be one reason why they couldn't be charged because the investigation wasn't even finished! Nothing to do with hating Jews.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123885&page=1

The five Israelis were held at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, ostensibly for overstaying their tourist visas and working in the United States illegally. Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case.

The five men were held in detention for more than two months. Some of them were placed in solitary confinement for 40 days, and some of them were given as many as seven lie-detector tests.

Plenty of Speculation

Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities' interest in the case was heightened when some of the men's names were found in a search of a national intelligence database.


From ABC report:
For the FBI, deciphering the truth from the five Israelis proved to be difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.

To back this up, if you read what has been declassified from the full FBI reports - which I have - it seems to me they were still trying to understand why these Israelis were continually being deceptive, but for some reason they suddenly conclude that there's nothing more to investigate. I have actually taken clippings of the reports with the significant information and I'm going to post them on the internet at some point with analysis. It's taken some time to go through it and look at the most significant parts. And I think their is evidence of foreknowledge. Certainly they were involved in something big.
 
More here: http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=58
It was New York's venerable Jewish weekly The Forward that broke this story in the spring of 2002, after months of footwork. The Forward reported that the FBI had finally concluded that at least two of the men were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. Two former CIA officers confirmed this to me, noting that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. The Forward also noted that the Israeli government itself admitted that the men were spies. A "former high-ranking American intelligence official", who said he was "regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials", told reporter Marc Perelman that after American authorities confronted Jerusalem at the end of 2001, the Israeli government "acknowledged the operation and apologized for not coordinating it with Washington". Today, Perelman stands by his reporting. I asked him if his sources in the Mossad denied the story. "Nobody stopped talking to me", he said.

In June 2002, ABC News' 20/20 followed up with its own investigation into the matter, coming to the same conclusion as The Forward. Vincent Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA, told 20/20 that some of the names of the five men appeared as hits in searches of an FBI national intelligence database. Cannistraro told me that the question that most troubled FBI agents in the weeks and months after 9/11 was whether the Israelis had arrived at the site of their "celebration" with foreknowledge of the attack to come. From the beginning, "the FBI investigation operated on the premise that the Israelis had foreknowledge", according to Cannistraro. A second former CIA counterterrorism officer who closely followed the case, but who spoke on condition of anonymity, told me that investigators were pursuing two theories. "One story was that [the Israelis] appeared at Liberty State Park very quickly after the first plane hit. The other was that they were at the park location already". Either way, investigators wanted to know exactly what the men were expecting when they got there.
Before such issues had been fully explored, however, the investigation was shut down. Following what ABC News reported were "high-level negotiations between Israeli and U.S. government officials", a settlement was reached in the case of the five Urban Moving Systems suspects.
Intense political pressure apparently had been brought to bear. The reputable Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported that by the last week of October 2001, some six weeks after the men had been detained, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and two unidentified "prominent New York congressmen" were lobbying heavily for their release. According to a source at ABC News close to the 20/20 report, high-profile criminal lawyer Alan Dershowitz also stepped in as a negotiator on behalf of the men to smooth out differences with the U.S. government. (Dershowitz declined to comment for this article.) And so, at the end of November 2001, for reasons that only noted they had been working in the country illegally as movers, in violation of their visas, the men were flown home to Israel.

So the investigation was shut down. Mossad spies working for a front company who were being investigated for foreknowledge or involvement in 911 got away.
 
I don't call anonymous sources, nor your conclusions drawn from anonymous sources, strong evidence.
 
I don't call anonymous sources, nor your conclusions drawn from anonymous sources, strong evidence.

You do realize how ridiculous a statement that is in this context. How likely do you think it would be that anyone would speak without the condition of anonymity?? This is the intelligence services we are talking about. Perlman and ABC used sources in the Mossad and former CIA officials. These details given are quite specific.

What's your evidence that the journalists' sources can't be trusted? Or do you seriously think that ABC and Perlman are just making stuff up?

A "former high-ranking American intelligence official", who said he was "regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials", told reporter Marc Perelman that after American authorities confronted Jerusalem at the end of 2001, the Israeli government "acknowledged the operation and apologized for not coordinating it with Washington". Today, Perelman stands by his reporting. I asked him if his sources in the Mossad denied the story. "Nobody stopped talking to me", he said.
 
What's your evidence that the journalists' sources can't be trusted? Or do you seriously think that ABC and Perlman are just making stuff up?

No I don't think ABC and Perlman are making anything up. The source, I don't know.
by the way since when is a mainstream news outlet to be trusted.
 
External Quote:
Two weeks after their arrest, an immigration judge ordered them to be deported. But sources told ABCNEWS that FBI and CIA officials in Washington put a hold on the case.
Eddie, these five individuals were suspected spies, which means that the case essentially accused the state of Israel of conducting some kind of illegal espionage inside of US.
If the ABCNEWS "sources" are correct that it was actually FBI and CIA officials who wanted to case on hold can also mean US intelligence eventually realized the absurdity of the case and didn't want to damage relations with Israel by keeping Mossad under continued suspicion.

Also, the article you quoted (the one I quote here) is from 2002. It's incredibly old and a lot of time have passed since. If the evidence is so obvious to everyone that these five individuals and Urban Moving Systems were actual spies, you think someone with influence would see through the alleged lies and do something about it? That has not happened despite all the time since.

You should be aware that you are quoting white separatist sites Eddie (unless that is your intention).
The page http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=58 seem to use information from an old Fox News segment by Carl Cameron on the possibility of Israeli foreknowledge, but the segment is often quote mined by truthers despite it saying quite clearly:

External Quote:
There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9/11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it.


The news segment is highly speculative though, and suggest several unrelated cases as potential "intelligence operations", such as the Israeli "art students" who tried to tap DEA facilities.
http://physics911.net/pdf/deareportredacted.pdf

The thing is, this case was about a bunch of drug smugglers who wanted an advantage by tapping phones at DEA facilities and their personnel. The case had nothing to do with intelligence gathering in relation to Mossad or the state of Israel. As seen in the linked PDF the "intelligence gathering" was in relation to MDMA smuggling operations in Florida. Yet the news segment at Fox News wildly speculate that it might have been "spying" for "other" purposes. You probably should be cautious with this old information because much of it that came out in the months after 911 were nothing but highly speculative.

What is ironic is the caption from the Youtube video I linked to:
External Quote:
In November, 2001, Fox News aired this four part series, which shows that Israeli intelligence has total control over the information networks in the USA.
One might wonder if they indeed have "total control" why did they let this segment air to begin with? Why has this Youtube version been left online for more than seven years without being taken down?
This is the type of unintelligent prejudice against Jews I find surround the notion that Israel had something to do with the 911 attacks.

I'm sorry but so far you have presented nothing that actually support your claim Eddie, other than your suspicion that Israel must have been involved somehow.
 
Are you aware that you cited a white separatist website? Do you think that's an objective source of reliable information?

I wasn't aware of that. But it's irrelevant because the article was written by Christopher Ketcham at Counterpunch, which is nothing to do with white separatism. I was going to link to Counterpunch but you have to pay to read the full article.

EDIT: the original article found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070313201649/http://www.counterpunch.org/ketcham03072007.html?

No I don't think ABC and Perlman are making anything up. The source, I don't know.
by the way since when is a mainstream news outlet to be trusted.
You don't just dismiss everything automatically because it was written by ABC. I wouldn't particularly say the Forward is that mainstream. It's just a jewish newspaper in New York. Anyway I don't trust mainstream media much but these are quite specific details which are given. Even from former high-ranking former CIA officials. The reason they wouldn't want to put their names out there is because it's ISRAEL. They are saying quite specifically what happened well after the Israelis were sent back, so obviously this was not out in the open officially.

And to say I haven't presented anything is nonsense. And to claim that it was definitely related to drug smuggling is not fact. That is just a suspicion, and I would say that it is wrong. They are obviously going to expect it may be drug smuggling because ecstasy smuggling is common from Israel and they targeted DEA agents. BUT it is more complicated than that. That is was just a drug smuggling ring seems less likely the more you look into it. The level of organisation is very high. But also look at what those art students where doing, that level of co-ordination around the country suggests a level of organisation that would come from an intelligence but the apparent oafishness of some of their actions indiccates that there may have been two operations at the same time. One to create a smoke screen by appearing to target DEA agents, the other which was real spying. Let's remember some of the ISraelis even found to be living on the same street at the lead hijacker, Mohammad Atta.

There is detailed analysis here in an article by Christopher Ketcham : http://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/

Thats where you enter truly dark territory: Theory No. 3, the Art Student as Agent as Art Student Smoke Screen. It has major problems, but lets roll with it for a moment. This theory contends that the art student ring was a smoke screen intended to create confusion and allow actual spies — who were also posing as art students — to be lumped together with the rest and escape detection. In other words, the operation is an elaborate double fake-out, a hiding-in-plain-sight scam. Whoever dreamed it up thought ahead to the endgame and knew that the DEA-stakeout aspect was so bizarre that it would throw off American intelligence. According to this theory — Stability’s “Victor/Victoria” scenario — Israeli agents wanted, let’s say, to monitor al-Qaida members in Florida and other states. But they feared detection. So to provide cover, and also to create a dizzyingly Byzantine story that would confuse the situation, Israeli intel flooded areas of real operations with these bumbling “art students” — who were told to deliberately stake out DEA agents


It has not been confirmed they were drug smuggler at all. I would suggest reading the full article to get a full understanding.

Besides... the 5 Israeli movers - let's not confuse them with the art students - were arrested and were being investigated as spies and in relation to spying. It has been confirmed at least some were working for Mossad, even the lawyer of Kurzberg admitted that he worked for Israeli inteligence. However, they were sent back to Israel before the the investigation was concluded because of pressure from Israel and Washington.

why on earth would Domink Suter be placed on the list of terrorist suspects if it was simply a case of simple visa violations? In your eyes, it was apparently a closed and shut case.
 
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I wasn't aware of that. But it's irrelevant because the article was written by Christopher Ketcham at Counterpunch, which is nothing to do with white separatism. I was going to link to Counterpunch but you have to pay to read the full article.

It'd be better to link to an archived version (like this) than a hate group.
 
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