jarlrmai
Senior Member.
In the "Go Fast" video when the object tracking starts 2 figures instantly appear on the MFD video screen these are:
RNG and V/C
which are thought to show range in nautical miles and closing velocity in knots.
These figures were claimed by the TTSA to be the range and closing velocity from the jet to the object, this seems to make sense and other information on the display has been confirmed to be accurately identified by TTSA from various sources.
https://thevault.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
This figure was used along with altitude and angle of deflection of the ATLFIR camera to determine that object was at ~13000 feet, this and analysis done of the speed of the jet and the change in tracking angle was then also used to determine that object was not moving fast. These calculations directly contradicted the claims of TTSA that this object was low and fast as below:
"The unidentified vehicle appears as a white oval shape moving at high speed from top right to lower left of the screen flying very low over the water."
Given the simplicity of this maths this then raised questions about the quality of TTSA's analysis. However even given this no-one has claimed that the figures on screen are wrong before. Now we have claims from Chris Lehto about the accuracy of this figure, so where does the figure actually come from?
Links to to some places where this subject is mentioned
https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/a1-f18ac-746-100-atflir-principles-of-operation-pdf.44937/
https://forums.vrsimulations.com/su...ing_Infrared_(FLIR)#A.2FA_FLIR_Pointing_Modes
https://forums.vrsimulations.com/support/index.php/A/G_Advanced_Targeting_FLIR_(ATFLIR)
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/272552-atflir-laser-in-aa-mastermode/
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/266488-atflir-a-a-capability/
Possible options and discussions/information based on the various sources.
1. LASER, the ATFLIR has a ranging laser, the manual says "7. The ATFLIR provides two air-to-air modes: pointed, and autotrack. Air-to-Ground and air-to-air laser range finding is also provided.
RNG and V/C
which are thought to show range in nautical miles and closing velocity in knots.
These figures were claimed by the TTSA to be the range and closing velocity from the jet to the object, this seems to make sense and other information on the display has been confirmed to be accurately identified by TTSA from various sources.
https://thevault.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
This figure was used along with altitude and angle of deflection of the ATLFIR camera to determine that object was at ~13000 feet, this and analysis done of the speed of the jet and the change in tracking angle was then also used to determine that object was not moving fast. These calculations directly contradicted the claims of TTSA that this object was low and fast as below:
"The unidentified vehicle appears as a white oval shape moving at high speed from top right to lower left of the screen flying very low over the water."
Given the simplicity of this maths this then raised questions about the quality of TTSA's analysis. However even given this no-one has claimed that the figures on screen are wrong before. Now we have claims from Chris Lehto about the accuracy of this figure, so where does the figure actually come from?
Links to to some places where this subject is mentioned
https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/a1-f18ac-746-100-atflir-principles-of-operation-pdf.44937/
https://forums.vrsimulations.com/su...ing_Infrared_(FLIR)#A.2FA_FLIR_Pointing_Modes
https://forums.vrsimulations.com/support/index.php/A/G_Advanced_Targeting_FLIR_(ATFLIR)
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/272552-atflir-laser-in-aa-mastermode/
https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/266488-atflir-a-a-capability/
Possible options and discussions/information based on the various sources.
1. LASER, the ATFLIR has a ranging laser, the manual says "7. The ATFLIR provides two air-to-air modes: pointed, and autotrack. Air-to-Ground and air-to-air laser range finding is also provided.
- LTD/R is visible but does not flash Lehto says L flashes but in the ATFLIR sim manual LTD/R is mentioned as flashing when the laser ranges of course it only mentions it in A/G mode..
- ATFLIR sim manual only talks about the laser in A/G mode this is different to the manual but it might indicate laser not generally used for A/A ranges or not implemented.
- DCS sim user says "Laser is not used for ranging in AA. The range is either from FLIR passive ranging or the FLIR Autotrack target merely being correlated to a Radar target and thus fused into a single MSI trackfile, and the range data would be from the Radar. With no passive range or another range contributor then the trackfile for the FLIR target would be angle-only without range."
- The ATFLIR manual says "The radar system provides the functions listed below: a. air target range, range rate"
- There are mentions on the sim forums that the ATFLIR will correlate RADAR tracks that match the LOS of the ATFLIR, essentially the system knows when the ATFLIR is looking at the track the RADAR has and overlays the RADAR info
- "FLIR Autotrack target merely being correlated to a Radar target and thus fused into a single MSI trackfile
- TWS (Track While Scan) mode in the ATFLIR manual shows RNG etc it looks slightly different
- If they had a radar track, why not slave the ATFLIR to it? No heading shown on ATFLIR? Maybe just messing/practising with autotrack hence excited voices when track occurs?
- Laser is not used for ranging in AA. The range is either from FLIR passive ranging or the FLIR Autotrack target merely being correlated to a Radar target and thus fused into a single MSI trackfile, and the range data would be from the Radar. With no passive range or another range contributor then the trackfile for the FLIR target would be angle-only without range."
- Mentions of some method of calculating range using angle rate in https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/266488-atflir-a-a-capability/
- "And angle rate = range" Not sure how this works but it is mentioned here https://www.mathworks.com/help/fusion/ug/passive-ranging-using-a-single-maneuvering-sensor.html
- This could be CW Lemoines "trigonometry" quote.
- I can't find any mention that this happens in the sim manual or the ATFLIR manual.
- https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/4020605/raytheon-brings-eo-technology-to-defend-our-nation
- Raytheon had a patent https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0820040A3/en
- "The sensor (1) provides electrical signals representing the observed scene (3) and can be a visible light or infrared sensor. A computer (9) is used to identify the target from the data base, estimate the initial range to the target
- There is no evidence that ATFLIR contains such as system that we know.