SR1419
Senior Member.
Fascinating...you just bob and weave and do anything to avoid the facts.
Nope. Whats makes them "terrorists" is the use of violence to instill and promote terror.
really. Now you are just being obtuse. Were those 2 nations invaded because they were "Islamic States" ? No.
Ya Think? ...and whose fault would that be
No- they are terrorists because they use violence and terror to promote their beliefs and goals. They perverse Islam to their benefit to justify their means. Their very justification comes from their interpretation of Islam. This is fundamental to their actions. They are not only reacting, they are using this conflict to promote a proactive agenda. You are entitled to your belief, however, according to OBL and Ayman al-Zawahiri, you are wrong:
But wait...I thought the US "abandoned" Afghanistan? So, why did the attacks originate there? The US didn't invade until it was attacked first.
Are they also a threat to others? Why is that? You still haven't addressed the issue of Islamic militants killing other muslims. Why is that? It is their religious dogma that that forms the basis of their actions. That is the point of this side-bar to the thread topic and you continually ignore it.
Such contradictory hubris. The "only" way to get to peace is "evolve the same as we have" ? I thought we were imperialist aggressors? Has it occurred to you that perhaps "they" do not want to be like "us"?
Sorry Oxy- the invasion of Afghanistan was about retaliating against those who attacked the US. It really pretty straightforward. Iraq is a whole other case.
Look- the point of this side-bar was your marginalization of the role that religion plays in the ideology and actions of Islamic militants. Nothing you have presented has come remotely close to supporting your belief that there is "nothing to substantiate" the role religion plays in this conflict. Just saying its all the West's fault and they only reason they are violent is because they feel oppressed is not accurate or factual summation.
So what is the problem... does this make them terrorists?
Nope. Whats makes them "terrorists" is the use of violence to instill and promote terror.
What about all the other Islamic States like Saudi, Kuwait, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Libya, Iran... should they be invaded like Afghanistan/Iraq was because they dared to create an Islamic State?
really. Now you are just being obtuse. Were those 2 nations invaded because they were "Islamic States" ? No.
I think we are in danger of moving off topic here.
Ya Think? ...and whose fault would that be
The reason I challenged you was because it appeared you were putting forward the classic Neocon rationale that 'the global war on terror' is primarily a war against Islamic Terrorists who 'are terrorists because they are Islamic and therefore a threat to the U.S, U.N. in that they want an Islamic World. Maybe they do want it, (like the Pope wants a Catholic world), but they are not attacking the west to get that. I believe they are only reacting to western interference in the running of their Country/s.
No- they are terrorists because they use violence and terror to promote their beliefs and goals. They perverse Islam to their benefit to justify their means. Their very justification comes from their interpretation of Islam. This is fundamental to their actions. They are not only reacting, they are using this conflict to promote a proactive agenda. You are entitled to your belief, however, according to OBL and Ayman al-Zawahiri, you are wrong:
Osama Bin Laden: The 9/11 Attacks Were “A Great Step Towards The Unity Of Muslims And Establishing The Righteous [Caliphate].” BIN LADEN: “These attacks took off the skin of the American wolf and they have been left standing in their filthy, naked reality. Thus the whole World awoke from its sleep and the Muslims realized the importance of the belief of loving and hating for the sake of Allah; the ties of brotherhood between the Muslims have become stronger, which is a very good sign and a great step towards the unity of Muslims and establishing the Righteous Islamic Khilafah insha-Allah.” (Translation Of Purported Bin Laden Audio Message, Posted On Islamist Site, 2/14/03)
Ayman al-Zawahiri: “The Whole World Is An Open Field For Us.” ZAWAHIRI: “The war with Israel is not about a treaty, a cease-fire agreement, Sykes-Picot borders, national zeal, or disputed borders. It is rather a jihad for the sake of God until the religion of God is established. It is jihad for the liberation of Palestine, all Palestine, as well as every land that was a home for Islam, from Andalusia to Iraq. The whole world is an open field for us.” (Al-Zawahiri’s ‘Full’ Message On War In Lebanon, Gaza Strip, Posted On Jihadist Website, 7/28/06)
Zawahiri: “The Reinstatement Of Islamic Rule … Is The Individual Duty Of Every Muslim … With Every Land Occupied By Infidels.” ZAWAHIRI: “Supporting the jihad in Palestine with one’s life, money, and opinion is the individual duty of every Muslim because Palestine was a land of Islam that was occupied by the infidels. This means that its liberation and the reinstatement of Islamic rule there is the individual duty of every Muslim as unanimously decided by the nation’s scholars. And such is the case with every land occupied by infidels.” (Al-Zawahiri’s June Video Message Supporting Palestinians, Posted On Jihadist Site, 6/11/06)
Al-Qaeda Charter: “There Will Be Continuing Enmity Until Everyone Believes In Allah. We Will Not Meet [The Enemy] Halfway And There Will Be No Room For Dialogue With Them.”
They are only a threat to the West because we are interfering in their Country/s. In short... we are the aggressors, the colonialists/imperialists.
But wait...I thought the US "abandoned" Afghanistan? So, why did the attacks originate there? The US didn't invade until it was attacked first.
Are they also a threat to others? Why is that? You still haven't addressed the issue of Islamic militants killing other muslims. Why is that? It is their religious dogma that that forms the basis of their actions. That is the point of this side-bar to the thread topic and you continually ignore it.
Educate them politically... work with them to show them to change and evolve the same as we have. That is the only way to get peace.
Such contradictory hubris. The "only" way to get to peace is "evolve the same as we have" ? I thought we were imperialist aggressors? Has it occurred to you that perhaps "they" do not want to be like "us"?
No you are misdirecting. This is the core of the topic. PNAC is very much about setting up U.S lead 'Global Police Force' and that is what the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq was all about. It is what state destroying sanctions followed by invasions are all about and it looks like there is much more to come but 'the people' do not want it... the people are sick of it.
Sorry Oxy- the invasion of Afghanistan was about retaliating against those who attacked the US. It really pretty straightforward. Iraq is a whole other case.
Look- the point of this side-bar was your marginalization of the role that religion plays in the ideology and actions of Islamic militants. Nothing you have presented has come remotely close to supporting your belief that there is "nothing to substantiate" the role religion plays in this conflict. Just saying its all the West's fault and they only reason they are violent is because they feel oppressed is not accurate or factual summation.