9/11: Flashes before the tower collapses

I am a credible theorist.I don't believe that government officials set around a table and plot world domination and the enslavement of humanity.(Although there are power players that do own us and our elected officials).But I was directed here by Mick West himself via twitter.
Now in this thread I want to prove 9/11 was a cover up/inside job/allowed to happen.There was a cover up of what really happened on 9/11.How far it went I don't know exactly but I intend to prove there was a cover up.
First off I challenge anyone to give me a good debunking of this clip:Forward the video to 10:00 and watch the flashes in the tower.Now can anyone debunk this?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm thinking it's just falling debris, but perhaps you can be more precise, and say exactly what you are referring to - i.e. the exact time. And the preferably a screenshot?

See:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/how-to-take-and-upload-screenshots.2635/

And on a broader note, you can't "prove" or disprove a big theory like 9/11 in a single thread. The posting guidelines here are that we focus on individual claims of evidence. Generally just one claim per thread. This thread is then about your claim that the flashes in the tower can only be controlled demolition. That is what the thread will focus on.

See:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/
 
I have edited the thread title accordingly

Okay thanks.
I'm just referring to the time from 10:00 - 11:00

Debunk that specifically.

It couldn't have been a falling floor as the flashes were random and all over the place.All at once too.
How is that synonymous with falling debris?I credit that a lot of explosions people heard that day were just falling elevators.
But this is weird.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
"Debunk that specifically." Debunk what? What claim are you making about it?

Doesn't even look like "flashes" to me. Appears to have been a smallish explosion in the smokey area, followed by stuff which could have been ejected from that same area appearing to produce some dust-like substance directly below. Could have been chunks of drywall from above falling and striking the building.
 
"Debunk that specifically." Debunk what? What claim are you making about it?

Doesn't even look like "flashes" to me. Appears to have been a smallish explosion in the smokey area, followed by stuff which could have been ejected from that same area appearing to produce some dust-like substance directly below. Could have been chunks of drywall from above falling and striking the building.

Your claim doesn't hold up.The flashes were all over that side of the building.They flashed everywhere over a wide area for a few seconds and then stopped.Your claim isn't credible in this sense.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Your claim doesn't hold up.The flashes were all over that side of the building.They flashed everywhere over a wide area for a few seconds and then stopped.Your claim isn't credible in this sense.

I didn't make any "claim". I made some general suggestions/guesses as to what I thought might be happening there.

Repeat: Debunk what? What claim are you making?

"Flashes" could = window glass popping out.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
The flashes were all over that side of the building.

Stresses causing minor structural areas to "pop".

You could watch this NOVA documentary and understand more completely:

I see that no matter how much science is brought into this discussion, there are always people who are "armchair experts" (such as the makers of the video posted in the OP). I prefer to vet sources, and not accept every 'claim" as "fact".
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Okay thanks.
I'm just referring to the time from 10:00 - 11:00

Debunk that specifically.

It couldn't have been a falling floor as the flashes were random and all over the place.All at once too.
How is that synonymous with falling debris?I credit that a lot of explosions people heard that day were just falling elevators.
But this is weird.

Could you post a screenshot indicating some flash you think is impossible from falling debris? Or do you just think there is too much? How much too much?
 
Could you post a screenshot indicating some flash you think is impossible from falling debris? Or do you just think there is too much? How much too much?

There was a series of popping flashes over a short time period.That is not synonymous with falling debris.The range of flashes are to wide and random for falling debres.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
There was a series of popping flashes over a short time period.That is not synonymous with falling debris.The range of flashes are to wide and random for falling debres.
Seems entirely consistent with falling paper and/or drywall. It keeps turning end over end, so you see a lot of flashes in the sun. If a piece of drywall hits the side of the building it will leave a trail of dust.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's like a much smaller version of this collapse, and directly lit by the sun so you get the flashes. See the multiple white objects.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Seems like an argument from incredulity...especially the guy in the vid.

You don't know what it is so it seems like evidence of controlled demolition?

It looks like falling debris to me.

The smoke or dust out the window could be anything....ceiling/floor collapse, combustibles exploding etc...it could even be a "bomb" but that specific event doesnt logically fit with a controlled demolition.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I would also add that, based merely on the segment in the video in the OP (about 10:00 to 11:00), despite the overly excited "narrator's" opinion:

The areas of "flashes" still do not, in any way, resemble proper examples that can be referenced where we know it is an actual controlled demolition event.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Look here, at 3:42 [Warning: video shows people falling]:



Watch the paper fall, and "flash" as it does.

at 3:36, notice this white piece tumble down the face, flashing as it does:


And a much larger cloud of "flashing" paper:




 
Last edited:
Seems entirely consistent with falling paper and/or drywall. It keeps turning end over end, so you see a lot of flashes in the sun. If a piece of drywall hits the side of the building it will leave a trail of dust.

It's like a much smaller version of this collapse, and directly lit by the sun so you get the flashes. See the multiple white objects.

You're making a good claim.It's possible.But it still doesn't seam consistent with what we see in the video.Especially when you compare it with witness testimony such as William Rodriguez reporting explosions before any plane even hit.The credible reports of explosions combined with video evidence of flashes and outburst of dust from the building gives the impression that there were explosives in the tower.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You're making a good claim.It's possible.But it still doesn't seam consistent with what we see in the video.Especially when you compare it with witness testimony such as William Rodriguez reporting explosions before any plane even hit.The credible reports of explosions combined with video evidence of flashes and outburst of dust from the building gives the impression that there were explosives in the tower.

We are not compared it with witness testimony. We are looking at your video and seeing what it looks like. Right now it looks like falling debris, and paper and/or wallboard flashing in the sun.

The best thing to compare it to is other videos at about the same time, from different angles.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
You're making a good claim.It's possible.But it still doesn't seam consistent with what we see in the video.Especially when you compare it with witness testimony such as William Rodriguez reporting explosions before any plane even hit.The credible reports of explosions combined with video evidence of flashes and outburst of dust from the building gives the impression that there were explosives in the tower.

What would supposed explosions before planes hit have to do with what you are looking at here?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Especially when you compare it with witness testimony such as William Rodriguez reporting explosions before any plane even hit.

I'm puzzled by the addition of this comment (the sentence I singled out) because, it veers off...although tangentially related, i suppose.

Of course, as with any proper understanding of the fallibility of "eyewitness testimony", since there is just this ONE example (of Mr. Rodriquez') compared to video evidence that refutes it? As well as no other corroborating eyewitnesses to these "explosions" prior to the airplanes' impact?

Human fallibility, and selective recollection.
 
What would supposed explosions before planes hit have to do with what you are looking at here?

I don't know.You tell me.He reported it.And multiple others did as well.They even testified to the 9/11 commission and they never took it into consideration or even contacted the dozens of others who reported the same thing.But hey 6 of the ten commission members have said the report is bogus but that's not the focus of this conversation.

I'm showing you flashes in the building.Could it have been paper?Maybe.But it doesn't look the same as the paper and glass reflections in other videos.The paper is consistent and flowing.In the video I presented it went "pop,pop,pop,pop,pop" Everywhere down and up you can't see paper flowing at all as you can with the other videos.
 
I'm puzzled by the addition of this comment (the sentence I singled out) because, it veers off...although tangentially related, i suppose.

Of course, as with any proper understanding of the fallibility of "eyewitness testimony", since there is just this ONE example (of Mr. Rodriquez') compared to video evidence that refutes it? As well as no other corroborating eyewitnesses to these "explosions" prior to the airplanes' impact?

Human fallibility, and selective recollection.


It wasn't just Rodriguez.He gave contacts to 14 others who were in the same area as he was who all felt explosions also.They were never contacted to testify.
And Rodriguez's story didn't even get mentioned.That clears that up.
 
At first glance, it does look like small,firework, type explosions but common sense and repeat viewings would suggest that it is sunlight glinting off reflective debris.
If you went along with the controlled demolition theory though, wouldn't these outer wall explosions be entirely inconsistent with that? I was under the impression that the charges where set secretly and deep inside of the building not in a place that would be in clear view of the occupants and require spaces to be cordoned off whilst work took place.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
It wasn't just Rodriguez.He gave contacts to 14 others who were in the same area as he was who all felt explosions also.They were never contacted to testify.

I will refer to my earlier post. Also, as I've looked into these claims, and the locations of the individuals involved, they very well could have been mistaken as to their recollection of the times, compared to the actual airplane impact times.

In any event, based on the video in the OP, it isn't relevant anyway.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
I don't know.You tell me.He reported it.And multiple others did as well.They even testified to the 9/11 commission and they never took it into consideration or even contacted the dozens of others who reported the same thing.But hey 6 of the ten commission members have said the report is bogus but that's not the focus of this conversation.

I'm showing you flashes in the building.Could it have been paper?Maybe.But it doesn't look the same as the paper and glass reflections in other videos.The paper is consistent and flowing.In the video I presented it went "pop,pop,pop,pop,pop" Everywhere down and up you can't see paper flowing at all as you can with the other videos.


You should probably start another thread discussing Rodriquez...he also testified to NIST that it was fire balls of jet fuel...and it was his concern over the condition of the stairwells prior to 9/11 that he felt was ignored.:

https://sites.google.com/site/911stories/rodriguezstatementtonist
 
[snip rambling]

Seriously? No, you tell me. You are the one who brought it up. If you don't have some idea of how it might be related, then why mention it?

I'm making a point.He reported
I will refer to my earlier post. Also, as I've looked into these claims, and the locations of the individuals involved, they very well could have been mistaken as to their recollection of the times, compared to the actual airplane impact times.

In any event, based on the video in the OP, it isn't relevant anyway.

So he and 14+ others had no recollection of time?

You have what's called cognitive dissonance.I used to have it with theories as well but you can't be in denial about this stuff.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
So he and 14+ others had no recollection of time?
You have what's called cognitive dissonance.I used to have it with theories as well but you can't be in denial about this stuff.

No, there is no "cognitive dissonance" on my end.

There IS, however, the commonplace Human propensity to succumb to a very Human problem, of selective memory and mis-identification of events when under stress.

EDIT: Human perception is well-known to be very fallible. One needs only to look at how "optical illusions" can fool us, so easily. This relates, because eyesight is only one of the senses, and ALL the senses can be equally fooled.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I'm making a point.He reported

And so, back to my original question: What would supposed explosions before planes hit have to do with what you are looking at here? You seem to be doing a "connect the dots" exercise, but what is the connection? If you don't know and don't even have a theory to toss out, it's meaningless, so why bring it up?
 

0:24 seconds a bright flash is seen on the shadowed side well below the collapse zone , this rules out reflections and falling debris theories.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Look at it on Youtube, at high resolution and full screen, starting right at 10:00. You can see the "flashes" he's talking about when they pan down.

And if you continue watching to 10:44, you see white flat objects falling, and "flashing" white





The same object is circled in both grabs. In one it is basically invisible, in the other it's a white "flash"
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

0:24 seconds a bright flash is seen on the shadowed side well below the collapse zone , this rules out reflections and falling debris theories.
You need to post the original video. This has been converted to slow motion, meaning lots of frames have been added - i.e. made up by the computer guessing what should be there.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Doesn't rule out all the possible causes of flashes mick.

Of course it doesn't. It does not rule out magic elves either.

The point is that it's a very reasonable explanation for the flashes. And is something that is literally known to cause THOUSANDS of similar flashes in the videos. So it's by far and away the most likely explanation.

Of course there still could have been some flashy explosion on the exterior, for no good reason, that looked just like sheets of paper of drywall flapping in the sun. But there is no good reason other than wishful thinking, to seriously suspect this.
 
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