"100 Critical Points About 9/11 "

[Mick West]

So, mynym, are you suggesting that the Jews pulled off the hijacking of planes and flying them into buildings that they had previously rigged with explosives, letting the buildings burn for an hour, then blowing them up, with or without the cooperation of the FBI?

 

[mynym]

Who are "the people that pulled off 9/11" that you are referring to? Where are they now.

Probably in Israel, along with the rest of the Israeli spy rings that were sent home after 911 and so forth. If it suited their interests and they felt like they could pull it off then there might have been more attacks. After all, they keep getting away with them no matter how many Jewish whistle blowers and so forth there are. (see the USS Liberty, etc.) If it did suit their interests then it would be interesting to see Obama left to read about pet goats and so forth, I'd imagine. Perhaps there's a certain arrogance here that may be the undoing of the faction that carried out 911.

Wait, who am I kidding. Americans are probably too stupid, it's as if one could calculate their epistemic inertia and plan the collapse of their brain events on the Right and the Left in order to build up a new Center based on the manipulation of their perceptions. Most simply won't use the brains between their temples. But those who seek, will find.

In any case:

Where are they now.

With respect to your official conspiracy theory, dubious as elements of it are, apparently most are dead. (Stories vary.) And that's fine with me, it's not as if Muslims don't really want to kill us or aren't really shouting death to America and so forth. Still wish that we as Americans weren't caught between the Koran (cut off their heads, etc.) and the Talmud (deceive them, etc.), though. Why can't we let other people kill each other instead of assassinating 16 year old Muslim kids without trial or trying to have Team America, World Police... police the world?

Let the dead bury their dead.

 

[mynym]

So, mynym, are you suggesting that the Jews pulled off the hijacking of planes and flying them into buildings that they had previously rigged with explosives, letting the buildings burn for an hour, then blowing them up, with or without the cooperation of the FBI?

"The Jews"... yeah, it was Jewish suburbanites. So we should blame our friends and neighbors for the actions of intelligence services, mercenaries and corrupt politicians?

As far as the FBI goes, if the counter terrism units were all universally corrupted by the factions in the CIA that created terrism to use against the Russians and so forth then they probably wouldn't have been sent to conferences on the other side of the globe on 911. Similarly, it's unlikely that those who are corrupt will happen to fall out of a helicopter like those two agents after the Boston bombing and so forth. Kind of interesting that they would both fall out of the helicopter. But I guess if they can happen to shoot and kill someone they're interviewing or engage in an hour long gun fight with an unarmed man like they did with the younger brother in the Boston bombing then anything is possible. (He was probably busy with writing his confession in crayon on the inside of the boat, I suppose.)

As Webster Tarpley notes in this video, watch for who gets promoted (or falls out of a helicopter): ​ It's about twenty minutes in. But you should probably watch the whole thing, that way you could cut back on your imaginary scenarios, NIST's ridiculous simulations... and the energy stored in the exploding donuts that brought down WTC 7, I'd imagine.

 

[mynym]

Mick, I'm curious as to what your view of the Israelis arrested on 911 with $4,000 in their shoes, tickets to leave the country within the month and so forth is? What would you imagine that they were doing there? Quick, someone enter that into an equation and run a simulation.

You know that the "threat disposition matrix" is probably always going to compute that 16 year old Muslim kids are terrists but that members of Israeli intelligence services never are, right? Seek the truth now... because you may be entered into the matrix next.

 

[Mick West]

Mick, I'm curious as to what your view of the Israelis arrested on 911 with $4,000 in their shoes, tickets to leave the country within the month and so forth is? What would you imagine that they were doing there?

Where's the evidence of this?

 

[mynym]

The actual police and FBI reports were declassified and released in 2011, and can be read in their entirety through the following links.

Veterans Today

He lists the links to the arrest reports and so forth in the middle of his article.

Here's the one about the $4,700 being found in their socks... or well, a white sock like object. Imagine if they were Muslim or 16 year old Muslim kids, then they could probably just be assassinated without trial according to the "threat disposition matrix" and terrist lists created by Zionists. (Note for the anti-Semites, this has nothing to do with suburbanites who think that they're Jewish or whatever. But it does have to do with feeling like you're elite or that you should be able to deny others due process.)

 

[Mick West]

Veterans Today

He lists the links to the arrest reports and so forth in the middle of his article.

Here's the one about the $4,700 being found in their socks... or well, a white sock like object.

If they are just visiting the country, then what's so suspicious about having tickets to leave the country?

And I thought you said they had explosives?

 

[mynym]

So... what would you imagine that they were doing there and so forth? You could have just taken it as a hypothetical and answered the question, sort of like I do with you and the imaginary furnaces of fire created by office furniture and exploding donuts that you apparently think brought down WTC 7.

Given that this is just entertainment and that what we think doesn't really matter I tend to try to set up the flow of bunk/debunk information with entertainment in mind. Fun times.

 

[Mick West]

I'm not doing this to entertain. If that's your goal then take it elsewhere.

 

[mynym]

And I thought you said they had explosives?

Did you read the documents? A bomb sniffing dog was brought in and there was a positive result on the van for traces of explosives.

You should probably read more articles of people you think that you disagree with and more documents and so forth before supporting assassinating 16 year old Muslim kids without trial. That's another interesting read, Muslims bringing suits against the American government basically saying: "Please don't assassinate me without trial." But that's the closest that they get to a trial because then the truth about corrupt politicians and a totally out of control network of intelligence services and mercenaries couldn't be detained, indefinitely.

Pretty pathetic.

 

[Mick West]

Did you read the documents? A bomb sniffing dog was brought in and there was a positive result on the van for traces of explosives.

But then no traces of explosives were found. Do dogs make mistakes?

Perhaps we could stick to physics instead of wild speculation. Surely it would be sensible to actually make a case for explosives before speculating on who might have planted them.

The lack of bangs seems to be the biggest obstacle with your theory.

 

[mynym]

But then no traces of explosives were found. Do dogs make mistakes?

I think that dogs are often more reliable than people.

How was it documented that no traces of explosives were found after the dog supposedly made a mistake.

Perhaps we could stick to physics instead of wild speculation.

That's ironic.

Surely it would be sensible to actually make a case for explosives before speculating on who might have planted them.

I think I'll stick with the dog.

The lack of bangs seems to be the biggest obstacle with your theory.

What if the only bang left after all the original bangs was NIST's magical column 79? That would be ironic.

 

[Pete Tar]

.... the continued US policy of assassinating anyone who seems to be even thinking about such things. ....

Disposition Matrix. "Kill list" redirects here.

This surely has to qualify as a legitimate example of 'Orwellian Doublespeak'. Chilling.

 

[Pete Tar]

...

You should probably read more articles of people you think that you disagree with and more documents and so forth before supporting assassinating 16 year old Muslim kids without trial.... .

Where did Mick state his support for this? You should stick to facts instead of inventing false positions for you to feel morally superior to.

 

[hiper]

Perhaps we could stick to physics instead of wild speculation.

The official explanation wants people to believe fire made WTC7 come down like a controlled demolition.
Talking about wild theories.

 

[Oxymoron]

This surely has to qualify as a legitimate example of 'Orwellian Doublespeak'. Chilling.

Agree.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix

The Disposition Matrix database catalogues biographies, locations, associates, and affiliations of suspects. It also catalogues strategies for finding, capturing, or killing suspects, or subjecting them to extraordinary rendition.[1]​ The database continues to direct American operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen, and will facilitate expanded operations in Algeria, Egypt, Mali, Libya, Iran, and throughout east Africa.[1]​The Pakistani interior minister Rehman Malik has stated that 336 American drone strikes in Pakistan claimed over 2,300 victims, 80% of whom were innocent civilians.[3]​ A Pew Research Center poll shows that 74% of Pakistanis believe that America "is the enemy", an increase from prior years.[14]​
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has condemned the database, writing in a press release that "anyone who thought U.S. targeted killing outside of armed conflict was a narrow, emergency-based exception to the requirement of due process before a death sentence is being proven conclusively wrong."[13]​ It has also filed freedom of information requests regarding the database and filed a lawsuit challenging its constitutionality.[13]​

 

[Oxymoron]

Who are "the people that pulled off 9/11" that you are referring to? Where are they now.

Or could it possibly be that the counter-terrorism efforts are working (at least for now)? The leadership of al-queda was greatly compromised by the immediate effects of the war on terror, and continues to be held down by the continued US policy of assassinating anyone who seems to be even thinking about such things. In the mainland the FBI seems to have put up a web of honeypots to ensnare anyone with an inclination. Only a few semi-lone-wolf attacks have got though (Boston, maybe Fort Hood, and in the UK there's the recent soldier attack).

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Osama Bin Laden are hardly in a good position to re-attack, are they? In that sense the official story fits very well.

Are you suggesting the'Disposition' and Honey Pot ensnarements are good?

 

[Mick West]

Are you suggesting the'Disposition' and Honey Pot ensnarements are good?

No. I'm suggesting they have possibly reduced the recent incidence of terrorist attacks.

 

[Oxymoron]

No. I'm suggesting they have possibly reduced the recent incidence of terrorist attacks.

That 'sounds like' a good thing.

But is it when you consider that 23 out of 25 terrorist attacks which have been 'prevented' by the FBI, were instigated and funded by the FBI.

6 people lost their lives on the 93 WTC Bombing.

It took two years to bring to fruition... eager beaver little jihadists that they were.

The FBI denied any foreknowledge.

If Emad Salem had not made tapes and backed them up he would probably have gone down as a patsy as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem

After the bombing, Salem claimed that the FBI knew about the bombing plot, and agreed to foil it by supplying fake explosives to him. Salem taped his telephone conversations with FBI agents. Those tapes were provided to defense lawyers, although they were not used in the trial. In December 1993, James M. Fox, the head of the FBI's New York Office, denied that the FBI had any foreknowledge of the attacks

 

[Mick West]

It's not a good thing it's just a good result. You have to consider all the costs and effects of an action to see if it's a good thing. I think the drone attacks are just creating new generations of jihadists. I'm not so sure about the honeypot stuff, but it's probably a net waste of money.

Probably another topic, but what exactly foreknowledge did the FBI have?

 

[Rroval]

The official explanation wants people to believe fire made WTC7 come down like a controlled demolition.
Talking about wild theories.

Actually it wasn't just fire that brought down the towers, it was also this as well since the planes basically pushed the foundation of buildings and made them collapse and the fire did the rest.

Not to mention which the major point is they make skyscrapers/buildings much weaker/cheap these days (if you can notice in the video I linked to) than they did in the past especially if your going being up about the whole B-17 bomber that crashed to the Empire State building which I'm going to say "They just don't make them like they used to".

 

[Pie-kun]

If I could jump in and debunk #99 (sorry if someone else has done it, CTRL-F found nothing in the thread)

In a 2008 poll by the New York Times, 81% of Americans agreed that the U.S. is on the wrong track, up from 35% in early 2002 (link). This figure is likely even higher, today

This point is incredibly misleading and also wrong in the assumption it makes. It would stand to reason that a vast majority of Americans would feel the country was heading in the wrong direction in 2008, a time when the country was entering the greatest global financial crisis in many decades. Furthermore, in early 2002 the country was still feeling a sense of unity and patriotism from the 9/11 attacks and President Bush was still enjoying high approval ratings. The article takes the two extremes and uses them to mislead the reader.

Here is the a recent poll from the New York Times asking the same right track/wrong track question. The results showed 57% of Americans saying we were on the wrong track, a drop of 24 percentage points from the 2008 poll cited.

Other polling firms also show a drop. In April 2008 (the time of the original NYT poll), Gallup reported an 83% unsatisfactory rating compared with 74% in its latest poll, a drop of 9 percentage points. Interestingly, Gallup showed similar satisfaction numbers to the NYT in 2002, with the unsatisfactory rating staying in the 30s during the first quarter of the year. The next year, however, the number had jumped to the 50s and the numbers stayed in the 40-60 range until the build up to the financial crisis in 2007 spiked the numbers well into the 70s.

(Interesting note regarding the Gallup poll: on average, Americans seem to be cynical when it comes to satisfaction with few exceptions. The only times the poll showed consistent majority satisfaction were economic booms in the 80s and late 90s and the aftermath of September 11th/Invasion of Iraq)

The oddest part of the point was the assumption that the number was "likely to be higher" today. A simple Google search would have proved that wrong and since this article was posted on various websites in April 2013, the author would have been able to see the dramatic change.

On the whole, it's a rather unimportant and irrelevant point to the articles main contentions, but I thought it interesting to point out the author's clear deception here, as it could give some reflection on some of the other points raised.

 

[Rroval]

Veterans Today

He lists the links to the arrest reports and so forth in the middle of his article.

Here's the one about the $4,700 being found in their socks... or well, a white sock like object. Imagine if they were Muslim or 16 year old Muslim kids, then they could probably just be assassinated without trial according to the "threat disposition matrix" and terrist lists created by Zionists. (Note for the anti-Semites, this has nothing to do with suburbanites who think that they're Jewish or whatever. But it does have to do with feeling like you're elite or that you should be able to deny others due process.)

http://the-last-blog-left.blogspot.com/2011/09/fbi-documents-on-5-dancing-israelis.html

Looks like we're getting raided by Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists here (which many of them are Fascists, White Nationalists, Nazis, Extreme Right Wing Free Market/Populist 'Libertarians', etc) , who let them in? They should go back to Scumfront from whence they came.

 

[mynym]

Looks like we're getting raided by Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists here (which many of them are Fascists, White Nationalists, Nazis, Extreme Right Wing Free Market/Populist 'Libertarians', etc) , who let them in?

Lol... did you include enough names and labels there?

By the same token, your source seems to be a Jewish supremacist of the sort that might say that the Palestinians aren't worth one Jewish fingernail and so forth. (Or whatever it is they say, like any ethnicity or "race" they have their own supremacists.) And therefore, given that he's a supremacists who probably believes that a Jewish Messiah will rule all the goyim and shear or slaughter the sheeple at will there's no need to look to the actual evidence.

The only place he stops focusing on tribalism and a "what's good for the Jews" mentality is here:

But check the actual FBI documents and there is absolutely no reason to imagine the 'dancing' Israelis were Mossad agents. They're a bunch of punks, at least one of which was found in possession of a hash bong-pipe (illegal). They were working for a boss who purposefully employed illegals so as to underpay them and to avoid payroll taxes - and whom one employee described to the FBI as "a crook". Another interviewee described one of the supposed perps as "a clown" and incapable of involvement in 911. Moreover, none of the photos the 'dancers' took showed the WTC before the first plane had hit. They, along with the rest of New York, only took an interest in the WTC after the first plane had hit and the building began burning/smoking.
The FBI (seemingly perfectly appropriately) concluded there was no reason whatsoever to imagine these people were involved and so handed jurisdiction to the INS (because of visa expiry issues) before their subsequent deportation. There seems to be absolutely nothing in any of it re 911, Mossad, inside-job, explosives, truck-bombs.......NOTHING.

Do you find this a convincing explanation ("They smoked pot, therefore they couldn't have had anything to do with it!" etc.)... or are you more interested in idea of defining a Jewish tribe vs. some other types of tribes and fear mongering based on that? You know that each group you're creating in order to create fear has tribes within their tribes and your groupings are generally pretty big abstractions that often have little to do with reality, right?

I wonder... what is it that you think would happen if people were willing to imagine that 911 was a joint operation of factions within the Israeli and American governments similar to Iran Contra and so forth? Are you imagining that the American people would go wild and begin rounding up Jewish suburbanites and soccer moms? (After all, that's what they did to "Muslims" when they thought that 911 was their fault. Just kidding.)

I'm beginning to think that tribalism = abject stupidity, all the way around. It would be an effective way to get people to be stupid if you could create and trigger it.

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."
Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[mynym]

Where did Mick state his support for this?

He voiced his support for the threat disposition matrix. Why do you suppose that 16 year old Muslim kids would make the list and be entered into the equations that create the matrix when there is evidence that the terrist networks involved in terrorism are often working with American intelligence services? Are they going to enter themselves into their equations?

Random note, there's a reason that the Founders decentralized power and established due process and so forth when they sought to escape the pyramid $cheme of their day.

You should stick to facts instead of inventing false positions for you to feel morally superior to.

I'm a satirist. I don't feel morally superior. You have to make fun to have fun. That's all.

 

[mynym]

I'm also curious about bringing up tribalism and politics. Why is that important to you here? I mean, of what relevance is it deep within the internet where conclusions don't really matter. I.e. it's not as if placing the truth before tribalism is going to create a mass movement within the bowels of the body politic. The masses clearly enjoy tribalism, games, violence, fear and forms of Red Team and Blue Team entertainment and have demonstrated that for thousands of years.... so it's not as if focusing on the truth above all else on some corner of the internet is going to change reality as we know it.

 

[Cairenn]

You have been asked by several of us to offer evidence of some 'Zionist' conspiracy. and I for one, have not seen any evidence from you. I am asking again.

 

[mynym]

With respect to your "No reason to even begin to imagine... because they were smoking pot or somethin'." argument from your source... (Which is the only argument that your source seems to make other than invoking tribalism.) Here is a good overview of why people would or could imagine that they may have had something to do with the event and so forth:

According to the police report, Officer Scott DeCarlo and Sgt. Dennis Rivelli approach the van and demand the driver exit the vehicle. The driver, Sivan Kurzberg, does not obey after being asked several more times, so the police physically remove Kurzberg and four other men from the van and handcuff them. They have not been told the reasons for their arrest, but Kurzberg tells them, "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." Again before the police have made any mention of the 9/11 attacks, another one of the arrested men says, "[W]e were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the incident." In fact, it will later be determined they were on the roof of a building at Liberty State Park, watching and videotaping the first crash into the WTC (see Shortly After 8:46 a.m. September 11, 2001). [Bergen Record, 9/12/2001; Ha'aretz, 9/17/2001; CounterPunch, 2/7/2007]

History Commons

Also, I don't get it. Why do ignorant Americans apparently think that the threat disposition matrix (That always seems to be programmed to conclude that Muslims are terrists, etc.) and assassinating 16 year old Muslim kids without trial is a worthwhile form of tribalism because it's keeping them safe and yet, they're willing to imagine that imaginary forms of tribalism that don't even exist in America would inevitably emerge from the body politic if people knew that "Muslims"* didn't do 911. "No reason to imagine..." Indeed. On a satiric note... apparently they're imagining that Jewish suburbanites and soccer moms that clearly had nothing to do with anything would supposedly be rounded up by the government or something along those lines. Were "Muslims" rounded up after 911 when everyone thought that they did it?

*Not that it changes the fact that some of them want to cut our heads off, etc.

 

[mynym]

You have been asked by several of us to offer evidence of some 'Zionist' conspiracy.

Me?

There is no secret conspiracy with respect to Zionism in general, it's almost all out in the open. Duh. Your ignorance isn't necessarily the responsibility of anyone else.

 

[Cairenn]

You are dodging my question. I asked for evidence of any of several things you assert and you haven't given us any.

 

[Mick West]

He voiced his support for the threat disposition matrix.

No I did not. I said it had probably reduced the number of terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11. However I think on balance it's a bad idea.

A satirist? Like John Stewart? Perhaps you should go find a board for satirists then? We're interesting in determining the truth and exposing the falsehoods here, and while your quips about exploding donuts were a little amusing, they are not really helping.

 

[mynym]

Unfortunately I don't have time to find the right speech were Gilad Atzmon points out that Zionist factions like AIPAC are openly a powerful faction that generally openly "conspire" and so forth.

At this point, they're openly calling for false flag attacks and so forth: ​ Some conspiracy theorists prefer imagining flying reptilians and so forth because that's entertaining... but with respect to Zionist false flag attacks, it's a pretty open "conspiracy." Or as George Bush might put it, a "CON... uh, organized plot... uh, fool me once, shame, a fool can't get fooled again!" Etc.

Pretty pathetic that most Americans are too stupid and ignorant to recognize what has been going on, let alone try do something about it. But there you go. Personally, I still like Team America, World Police and George Bush... it's the deep pathetic nature of the pathos of well meaning people "going with their gut" and doing utterly stupid stuff. But your mileage may vary.

 

[mynym]

No I did not. I said it had probably reduced the number of terrorist attacks in the US since 9/11. However I think on balance it's a bad idea.

Fair enough.

I'll try to cut back on the satire. But it seems unlikely that I'll be successful. Look at it this way, at least I don't put on a clown costume and try to entertain people with antics and so forth like Alex Jones. So much tangy tangerine to sell, so little time...

We're interesting in determining the truth...

So you're going to censor the satires of Alex Jones, then? That would be too bad, if so.

 

[Mick West]

Perhaps you could start by pointing out (quoting) something wrong in the NIST report regarding the fires and collapse in WTC7?

 

[mynym]

Ummm... seems like I can't post. Never mind. With respect to the tribalism and racist stuff that people were going into in order to avoid the evidence about Zionism, I'm a big believer in sex. Call me a romantic. But it's the main way that the "races," such as they are, can be integrated:

The attributes of mothering and fathering are inherent parts of sex differentiation that paves the way to reproduction. This is where the sociology analogy so often drawn between race and sex breaks down in the most fundamental sense. Genetic assimilation is possible through interracial mating, and we can envisage a society that is color blind. But genetic assimilation of male and female is impossible, and no society will be sex-blind.
(American Sociological Review, Vol. 49,
No.1, Feb., 1984.
Gender and Parenthood
By Alice S. Rossi :10)

So as soon as Zionist factions stop trying to sterilize Ethiopian Jews you know what that means. It's time to get it on and make MLK's romantic dreams come true, etc.

 

[Mick West]

Ummm... seems like I can't post.

Is this some zen post about how you can't post?

Probably due to:
https://twitter.com/CloudFlareSys/status/340491240556613632

Seems alright now

 

[hiper]

Perhaps you could start by pointing out (quoting) something wrong in the NIST report regarding the fires and collapse in WTC7?

WTC7 collapsing like a controlled demolition and NIST not officially testing the dust for accelerant & explosive residue for me raises the mother of all red flags.

 

[Mick West]

WTC7 collapsing like a controlled demolition and NIST not officially testing the dust for accelerant & explosive residue for me raises the mother of all red flags.

So other than them not testing for explosives..... what? What's incorrect in the report?

 

[mynym]

Perhaps you could start by pointing out (quoting) something wrong in the NIST report regarding the fires and collapse in WTC7?

The first thing that's wrong with it is that you should always begin with an explanation/theory that has many precedents instead of trying to imagine or simulate miraculous events and so forth. If I write something on lunch break or cite a website or Youtube video that you've already seen it's not going to be as good as the time it would take to meditate on the knowledge and make a satire out of it. Just kidding. I mean quote the NIST report and go through the parts where they apparently simulated/imagined expanding beams while neglecting to imagine expanding floor slabs and so forth. As far as imaginary evidence goes, it's not really that convincing unless it already suits what seems to be an "official story" type of worldview.

Given that I can't go through the NIST report now (maybe later) here's an interesting question in the meantime. Is there anything in the "official report" and "official story" that you find questionable? Because it seems like the overall tone of Metabunk is generally that every time the best official report that the bankster's paper ponzi* can buy is made, the assumption is that it's not bunk. But every time a conspiracy theorist says something, it is bunk.

*I've always wondered if Alex Jones (town) would cut down on the roller coaster ride involved in producing fear based forms of entertainment if he could create money/debt out of nothing like the banking cabal does. Probably not... besides, who would sell gold for money/debt within the bankster's paradigm then?

 

[mynym]

Yeah, I thought your site was getting hammered or something. Lost two halfway decent comments in the process of posting too... good thing this is meaningless before we go the way of the Dodo. I have to remind myself of that because once the mind latches onto something it starts seeming important.