1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Not really. You simply did not see it, you must have seen a plane instead.

    Simply saying you can't see something because it's far way is just an argument from incredulity. You can see stars at night and they are trillions of miles away.
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Think of it a different way. What if you were on the space station, and looking down at earth. What could you see? What could you see at night? Not what you could see in detail, but what would show up as a speck of light. Could you see a lit up football stadium? Could you see a road just from the street lights?
     
  3. DJC

    DJC Member

    from 40 000 feet prob not from 270 miles def not ......someone would need to do an experiment to debunk or prove this ...and stars being trillions of miles away ....thats another topic ..we don't know if thats true either ...your assuming everything nasa says is true .....we are here to ask questions to find out the truth or to decide no ? and what we saw was exactly the space station there was no question about a plane or the isis ....just later we realized theres no way ...but it still wasn't a plane ...
     
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  4. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So why don't people see it close up all the time then?
     
  6. DJC

    DJC Member

  7. DJC

    DJC Member

    I don't know if they do or not ....i have heard people saying they saw the space station last night more often lately .i never asked if it was with a telescope or the naked eye ...but there were 4 or 5 of us outside that night ...it was kind of a big deal we saw the ISS ...only later did i question it
     
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Would you like to?

    If you look out of your window right now, what can you see that is small and far away? How small and far away is it?
     
  9. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    It would be the temperature it was designed to maintain.

    You confusing the temperature of the rarified atoms in the thermosphere with the temperature an object that absorbs all solar radiation will achieve if it's kept in direct sunlight for a long time. That won't exceed ~120° C.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  10. DJC

    DJC Member

    i live in ancaster on the escarpment about 8 miles from downtowns tim hortons stadium ...if you go to the edge of the mountain/ escarpment you can barely make out the stadium ..http://ticats.ca/tim-hortons-field/ this is about how big the iss is correct ?
     
  11. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Can you see the lights?
    20160726-154818-vpkpg.
     
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  12. Hevach

    Hevach Senior Member

    Contrast is more important than size. A plane at 40,000 feet is only lit by the sun when the sky is as well, meaning it's in a low contrast visual field and thus hard to see. But at night, you can very easily see it's external lights, because they're bright and the sky is dark, giving high contrast. During the day, some of those lights are still on, but even if you can see the plane you'll never be able to make out the lights because of the low contrast.

    The ISS is most visible when it's still lit by the sun but the sky isn't, and because it has a large and highly reflective surface area it's in a very high contrast visual field and thus visible. During the day, you'll never see it without some pretty serious optics (still, nothing you can't go down to the hobby store and drop a couple hundred bucks on - the hardware available to amateur astronomers off-the-shelf these days is pretty incredible) for the same reason it's hard to see the plane.

    Now, as for speed, what you actually need is angular speed, not absolute. It's much, much faster than a plane, but it's slow in the sky because of distance. It takes a bit under 8 seconds to cover the width of a full moon, which is slower than an overhead airplane but still high enough to be plainly visible, which makes it more visible, not less.
     
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  13. DJC

    DJC Member

    I see your point ...yes you can see the lights not great but yes .....but what we saw that night was the space station the shape everything was the same it looked like that video there was no question to us anyways it was the ISS ..so was it real at 270 miles away.....this is what makes me wonder... hoax or real? as far as debunking flat earth on this thread by seeing the isis ..i don't think that does it .
     
  14. DJC

    DJC Member

    if the earth is 24000 miles in circumference and the space station is 270 miles away .how long would it take to cross the earth at 17000 miles an hour ? and how far is our line of sight at 17000 miles an hour going to be ?
     
  15. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I don't know what you saw, but it wasn't the ISS. It was probably an odd shaped plane, or maybe even a drone.

    On the subject of seeing distant lights, can you (at night, from where you live) see the red light on top of Landmark Place?
    20160726-163006-abctn.
     
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    92 minutes.

    http://coolcosmos.ipac.caltech.edu/ask/282-How-fast-does-the-Space-Station-travel-
     
  17. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    How did you determine it was the ISS?
     
  18. DJC

    DJC Member

    So would we be able to see this ....its supposedly travelling at 10 x the speed of a bullet ....
     
  19. DJC

    DJC Member

    It looked exactly like the pics ....we all saw it and thought wow ....only after did i think about the speed and distance ....hence i think there might be some kind of hoax involved ..and they had it in the paper that it was the isis let me check last year article it was about this time last summer
     
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Being 249 miles up away does not make a huge difference.

    Radius of Earth = 3959, so diameter of earth = 3959*2*3.14159 = 24875 miles
    Radius of orbit = 3959+249 so diameter of earth = (3959+249)*2*3.14159 = 26439 miles, an extra 1562 miles, or 6%
     
  21. DJC

    DJC Member

  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Speed is not important, it's how long it takes to cross your field of view, and it actually takes several minutes, because it's so far away.
     
  23. DJC

    DJC Member

  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Have you ever seen a shooting star? A meteorite burning up in the earths atmosphere? They are going around 100,000 mph, and you can still see them move across the sky.
     
  25. DJC

    DJC Member

    the speed 10 x a bullet the distance the temperatures up or down seeing it with a naked eye or not.....all good questions I'm afraid we can't answer ...we just don't know ..
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Yes we do. Why don't you sign up for the alerts here:
    https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/

    And then watch the ISS with your naked eyes as it flies over.
     
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  28. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    I recommend getting the Sputnik! app for the iPhone. It's free. It gives predictions for visible ISS passes and Iridium flares. It allows you to set a 10 minute reminder. Ensure location service is enabled.

    If you don't have an iPhone then get the Heavens-Above app for Android. Or just visit heavens-above dot com.

    I've seen around a hundred passes of the ISS and around a hundred Iridium flares.
     
  29. DJC

    DJC Member

    What if .....its not the space station ..what if its something else and they are telling us its the space station ? I guess its comes down to either we trust nasa or not ..and from some things I've been looking at lately i do not .i did up until a few months go but now....well I'm here on this site looking for answers obviously .
     
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Not really, you can do the math and figure out if it could be something else.
     
  31. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

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  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    If an enterprising Flat Earther wanted to disprove the Globe Earth theory then a good way to do it would be to record this event from two (or preferably three) locations that are 50 miles apart. Compare the time and the heading and elevation angles to the predicted values. If the world is flat then it's impossible to fake this correctly for all locations.

    Even more enterprising, you could take the elevation and heading angles and calculate where the ISS actually is.
     
  33. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    Two flat earthers a mile apart could each take a one second exposure of the ISS simultaneously and calculate the parallax by comparing the background stars.

    But I've had more than one flat earther tell me they're not going to bother getting the Sputnik! app and go outside and watch a visible pass because the ISS doesn't exist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2016
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  34. DougW

    DougW Member

    Ancient Aliens ;-) lol
     
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  35. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    But that was the point of my animation. If it was not at 270 miles, but it was at the correct angle from your point of view, then it would have to be at the wrong angle from any other viewpoint on the ground. That's clear from the geometry of the situation.

    So how could anyone fake it so that any person, at any position on earth would still be able to see the fake at the correct angle above them. The only way to do that is to put the alleged fake at the real position and orbit of the ISS. And if you can do that, it debunks the Flat Earth just as well as the real ISS!
     
  36. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    But each of those questions have been answered here. Chew answered the temperature and linked to a longer discussion. Mick has answered the speed/bullet argument. Why are you not accepting those answers?
     
  37. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    First, if it was something also in the same orbit, that proves that the flat earth is false, because that orbit makes no sense over a flat disk world. That's why flat earth believers made up the drone or u2 explanation in the first place. That have to say that it is much lower in the sky than 270 miles, because they deny that ant satellite is possible at that he eight. So the "something else" is a harmful to their claim ad the real ISS.



    In any case, why should we assume it is something else, when it is simpler and more likely that it is the ISS based on the evidence we have? There is no evidence that it is something else, independent of the desparation of flat earthers to explain away a piece of evidence that ruins their story.
     
  38. DJC

    DJC Member

    Nasa has given us plenty of reasons to assume its something else....from water bubbles and hair sprayed hair in shifting gravity space station videos to photo shopped pics of earth to the press conferences that they cannot ansser simple questions on where the mars rover is or what type of file they used to send the pics ...i could go on for an hour ....why you blindly believe a government agency that has been caught in so many lies...why you blindly believe anything without questioning it ? period
     
  39. Inti

    Inti Active Member


    Sorry, but I've seen the alleged water bubble, clearly glitches in video. The carefully edited videos by flat earthers, like Dubay's claim of a theatrical flying harness on an astronaut- except he cut it off just before that astronauts teeshirt floats up and shows - his bare midriff, And we should accept that poor standard of evidenceas more convincing than all of modern science and technology? Sorry, no.

    Nasa is one of about 50 space agencies, then there are all the universities, private space companies, amateur and professional astronomets and more. All in on the conspiracy. Not credible.

    First, there are existing threads about many of these points on Metabunk. Find them and present you evidence there, please. If you have something genuinely new, please start a new thread for it. Let's not jump from one claim to another here.

    I don't blindly believe, I evaluated the evidence. I have a long history, since the 1970s of political activity highly critical of various governments, including my own.

    And I notice that none of this post addresses any of the criticisms and questions that I and others have put to you. It look like a diversionary tactic, or can you answer them after all?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
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  40. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Perhaps you could pick one such "lie" (preferably one you can back up with evidence) and start a new thread on it.

    But regardless of if you think footage from the Space Station is real, you can't deny that something is flying over people at times consistent with an orbiting space station, and that it's at 249 miles up, and that it's reflecting about as much light as something the size of the ISS would.

    Those are verifiable facts. You can check them yourself.