1. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I have come up with a way to "more correctly" determine the color of the sky.
    Through my career of painting skies, one problem has been the ability to correctly determine the true color of the sky.....if it is wanted to be accurate.

    I made a video......

    Note, here is my "about" description of the YouTube vid....
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  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    so when I take that sunlit mirror color and put it on my ceiling what would you say 4 ehades lighter or more?

    and on canvas on my vertical wall (moderate light) like 2?
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
  3. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    My ("somewhat less than "vast" experience) of using paint for....oh, let's say, painting your house interior walls? Still....I've learned a lot.

    Color perception varies A LOT depending on the ambient lighting conditions, and of course, individual Human personal perception.

    Just my $0.02.

    ('IF' I might add? In the concept of, say, "scale modeling"....of which I'm fairly adept...when you wish to paint a reduced-scale model to represent the "real thing", you must take into account aspects of perspective, perception and the various and sundry interpretations of "color" that can vary greatly, from person to person).

    I think, in all.....it's about "perception" mostly, with a dash of "memory" tossed in......

    Editing....when painting scale models, we often must resort to a kind of 're-creation' of distance, in order to make the small model appear similar to the "Full-Scale" representation. Hence, the use of "scale-black", as one example. This is basic black paint, with an addition of red...and even tiny amounts of white (the white interacts with the black to cause it to "gray" a bit...the red helps to 'diffuse' the effect).
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  4. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I've painted several skies on home ceilings. It depends on the amount of un-natural or natural light that the ceiling will receive. If there is little (or ambient) light, like in a basement......I would lighten the color a shade or two.
    If the color is on a vertical wall....I would keep the color "as suggested" by the real sky.
    Off topic.....interior sky colors are often too "vibrant".....and a slightly muddier color seems more natural. A bright sky is fantastic for a while when first seen, but a more subdued sky color is better over the long-haul, if you will be living with it for some years.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
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  5. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I have painted sunsets in rooms.....and the calming effect, is quite amazing.
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  6. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

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  8. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    That is an interesting link, Mick...although it seems we must watch a video. I am not averse to ANY Penn & Teller video, in fact I avidly seek them. Did I miss a link, somewhere?

    Thanks in advance.

    Edit....I can figure it out, I suppose...please ignore the foregoing. 2nd 'edit'...am "running" to NetFlix to schedule that disc!!! Thnx!

    "Speaking" (pun) of 'Penn & Teller':
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2014
  9. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I'll look Mick.....I just ordered it, to view the film. (Amazon)
  10. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    I just set my NetFlix queue...thanks for the recommendation.
  11. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    lol I love the trailer 'I wanted to paint a vermeer but figured that's impossible cause im not a painter' < I can relate.

    this clip gives you some insight. kinda cool method.
  12. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Mirrors are such a useful tool....like my use of them during a solar eclipse.... (re-posted)
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  13. David Coulter

    David Coulter Active Member

    It is a very interesting documentary considering Tim is an odd person who spent 5 years reproducing a Vermeer. Assuming Vermeer would have taken the same amount of time for each painting it seems like there might be some bunk in Tim's Vermeer. For one, Vermeer did portraits of people; how would he have posed them in exactly the same way for months or years on end to use the camera obscura and mirror method as his only system? Perhaps he used the technique to produce a photograph-like sketch and actually had a very good eye for colour for completing the painting. Sometimes engineers like Tim can be quite annoying in assuming that artistic skills must always be reduced to analytics.
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  14. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    The artist James Turrell very often uses natural sky light to "color" a room......allowing natural light to enter the space, via an opening somewhere in the room. The ambient reflections, basically "color" the room.

    About tracing....
    I had a toy, as a kid.......It's not the same as Tim's Vermeer project, but still interesting, and so simple.

    20121017-150929. reflection_copy.

    ...and another gadget...

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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  15. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Yeah.....I know.

    Look....I (as probably many of the current readers right now) have owned a home. SEVERAL homes, in fact. Choosing paint colors from tiny swatches? A "guess" at best. Come on, we ALL have been there....n'est pas???

    ALSO.....when we 'paint' a wall (as example) IT looks TOTALLY different when 'wet' than when it "dries". Again.....I have MANY decades' experience as a scale model builder, so I know a lot about color perception.
  16. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    ....good to know, WeedWhacker. I paint scale models !!
    Yes, choosing paint colors from small swatches is not so cut-and-dry, it takes some experience (and several mistakes) to be able to pick a 1"x2" swatch that will look like what you want, when the wall is 10' x 20'.....or larger.
  17. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Scale modeling. We have to adapt colors to the scale. But, this veers OT.........
  18. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    not really. if were trying to color match the sky you gotta scale your swatches too.
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  19. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    Scale models are often found in TV commercials, and in in film.
    Yes, the paint and color of such things is rather off-topic.
    But when presented to the public, (in TV and film) the variance of such colors, can be discussed.
  20. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Just heard today (on an NPR radio channel) how "beautiful and blue" (their words) the sky was above southern Oregon.

    I know that there are no such things as "chem"trails....and I expect that most NPR listeners are equally informed and educated.
  21. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

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  22. Ross Marsden

    Ross Marsden Senior Member

    There is an interesting old film (now a YT video) about color in this "Hack a day" "Retrotechtacular"
    and a video about why some materials are transparent.

    The MVO in the video about color sounds like Alan Kalter, the announcer for the Late Show with David Letterman.