There is much going on in the upper atmosphere that you can't see but which can help to explain a lot of what you see.
As with many past discoveries - electric waves for transmitting TV and cell phone signals, the existence of bacteria - we need research tools and previously collected knowledge to get the full picture.
You are seriously not believing what you write Mr Administrator and I am here to tell you how clear your efforts to discredit this brave young woman are.
...
You need to improve your deceptive techniques because some of us still see right through you.
Mr Mambi, you decided to attack
The administrator in such a personal way that you simply ignored the fact that there are at least a dozen other people here activly debunking chemtrails claims of evidence other than the administrator himself.
You need to first start really reading the threads before deciding to personally attacking anyone here or anywhere else. It makes your words just empty. :-(
You are seriously not believing what you write Mr Administrator and I am here to tell you how clear your efforts to discredit this brave young woman are.
You keep spinning what she is saying, you keep going to these 'corner arguments' and the best part is that I dont think you even believe yourself and you are just here to create these 'false narratives' and 'false arguments' which are nothing more than a smoke screen (pun intended) to the truth.
I dont seriously believe you think that after these little planes pass at much higher altitudes than other commercial planes and at much different speeds and they make a VERY SPECIFIC pattern in the sky (shape like nets) with this "white" smoke that when the Sun light passes through it (or the Moon) that they change colors to very distinctive hues of green/red/yellow which is not the normal hues created by sunlight hitting 'REAL CLOUDS' and you sit here and try to debate her background, knowledge, grade in the military to distract everyone else to the REAL FACTS THAN YOU CAN SEE WITH YOUR EYES AND DONT NEED NO DEGREE TO COME UP WITH VERY CLEAR CONCLUSIONS????
I dont think you believe yourself and you are here with ulterior motives besides a true search as to what is really causing this phenomenon in the sky.
It is hilariously easy to figure you out and what you are REALLY after in this forum by reading deep into just a few of your comments.
You need to improve your deceptive techniques because some of us still see right through you.
I'm willing to bet that you did not come here for a cogent discussion of the facts but are instead here to express your displeasure with those that use facts to contradict your opinions. Opinion that are only supported by beliefs and have no basis in science.
A new Kristen interview posted on YT in which she definitively says that "it's all about weather warfare" (more or less) as the reason for chemtrails.....
Looks like the fame got to her - she couldn't stay out of it!
and at the 1st Annual Save Long Island forum (I haven't listened to all of this one yet....)
You are seriously not believing what you write Mr Administrator and I am here to tell you how clear your efforts to discredit this brave young woman are.
You keep spinning what she is saying, you keep going to these 'corner arguments' and the best part is that I dont think you even believe yourself and you are just here to create these 'false narratives' and 'false arguments' which are nothing more than a smoke screen (pun intended) to the truth.
I dont seriously believe you think that after these little planes pass at much higher altitudes than other commercial planes and at much different speeds and they make a VERY SPECIFIC pattern in the sky (shape like nets) with this "white" smoke that when the Sun light passes through it (or the Moon) that they change colors to very distinctive hues of green/red/yellow which is not the normal hues created by sunlight hitting 'REAL CLOUDS' and you sit here and try to debate her background, knowledge, grade in the military to distract everyone else to the REAL FACTS THAN YOU CAN SEE WITH YOUR EYES AND DONT NEED NO DEGREE TO COME UP WITH VERY CLEAR CONCLUSIONS????
I dont think you believe yourself and you are here with ulterior motives besides a true search as to what is really causing this phenomenon in the sky.
It is hilariously easy to figure you out and what you are REALLY after in this forum by reading deep into just a few of your comments.
You need to improve your deceptive techniques because some of us still see right through you.
American Mambi you made a very passionate Post which appears consistent with common sense and to what you feel you see in the sky . . . what we are saying is everything is not what it seems . . . there are logical explanations for what you see which has nothing to do with chemtrails . . . we are saying they are persistent contrails . . . and we present a lot of evidence and history to back up those claims . . . In fact if the first explanation you heard was the trails in the sky were persistent contrails from someone you trusted you might be taking a different position.
As far as attacks on Meghan I think we have been rather calm and even handed . . . she is by her credentials someone who needs to present logical and well documented and verifiable evidence to prove her claims . . . it is many of our conclusions that she has not done so . . .
I dont seriously believe you think that after these little planes pass at much higher altitudes than other commercial planes and at much different speeds and they make a VERY SPECIFIC pattern in the sky
"Little planes"? Where does that come from? You are clearly not listening to what Kristen Meghan is informing you of the types of aircraft that she believes are involved.
In the following video go to 08:37. She describes Navy personnel contacting her with e-mails and messages about TACAMO aircraft caught "doing it".
The Boeing E-6 Mercury (TACAMO) is not a small plane so how does that fit in with your "little plane" theory? Is Kristen incorrect? Should she be looking for the "little planes"?
Kristen has already demonstrated how out of her depth she in regards to aviation. Here she is filming and driving at the same time and passing it off as a bit of multi-tasking in the comments. Poor show really! It is the conviction and emphasis that she puts on her statement that is quite staggering. It quite clearly shows how out of her depth she is in regards to aviation.
122 Mile Marker at following map link on Interstate 80 heading West.
.... Seven, again Seven aircraft flying in front of me doing a lovely etch a sketch design. Those of you familiar with aviation are fully aware planes do not fly directly into each other, this close, out in the middle of nowhere!
You make claims about efforts to discredit her but that video quite clearly re-enforces that she is badly trying to connect the dots and failing miserably. Her claims in that video are ludicrous and demonstrates that she clearly has no real knowledge of aviation let alone upper air routes. She is simply, like many chemtrail believers, looking up and making her own interpretation of what she thinks is going on. If she presented that video on an aviation forum, be it professional or enthusiast, she would be laughing stock.
Yes aircraft using upper air routes do fly close to each other and cross above and below. This is daily routine with clear separation involved and can be down to a separation of 1,000 feet. Kirsten fails miserably in trying to appeal to her YT followers with this type of video.
Type in KJOT into the box on the upper left which is the Joliet Regional Airport/Weather Station north west of the Interstate 80 122 Mile Marker. You can see the upper air routes on the map labelled with J to the west. What she is seeing is simply airliners using the designated upper air routes. Now go back to the video and listen to what she is claiming?
Kristen states
Those of you familiar with aviation are fully aware planes do not fly directly into each other, this close, out in the middle of nowhere!
Airliners can and do fly with 1,000 foot separation. Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM).
RVSM was implemented to reduce the vertical separation above flight level (FL) 290 from 2000-ft minimum to 1000-ft minimum. It allows aircraft to safely fly more optimum profiles, gain fuel savings and increase airspace capacity.
b. Mandate. At 0901 UTC on January 20, 2005, the FAA implemented RVSM between flight level (FL) 290-410 (inclusive) in the following airspace: the airspace of the lower 48 states of the United States, Alaska, Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico High Offshore Airspace and the San Juan FIR.
This is what it looks like from the aircrew and passenger perspective. Now consider what it looks like from a ground perspective? Exactly! Aircraft crossing, passing and flying in safe proximity with nothing out of the ordinary. She clearly doesn't have a clue what she is filming.
As someone who has my degree in environmental analysis, works in environmental education/analysis and regulation, and as someone who worked for some time in academic science specifically with soil science...It literally hurts my brain to hear you try to speak about your "credentials" and your "evidence."
1. In order to be a 4B0X1 "Bioenvironmental Engineer" in the Air Force you do not need a college degree, or any previous experience with scientific anaylsis whatsoever. You received what...a two month career specific training course? 68 days or so? And congratulations on getting your DOT hazardous materials training...thats a one day course. I know high schoolers that have that certification.
It sounds like the job you had was pretty much equivalent to any entry level environmental technician job or what local inspectors do. Again I know people fresh out of highschool that work these jobs. Not impressed with the long, scientific sounding title.
2. Sampling techniqes please? You have not said a thing about any of your methadology for sampling, or for subsequent analysis of these samples. In your video you just mentioned you had taken air and soil samples...haha where did this sampling occur Kristin because I doubt the Air Force just let you roam around the countryside with their equipment? And was this sampling verified by ANYONE else. Did anyone proof your methadology or copy your sampling reports?
Its cool though...without any shred of evidence, or verification of your sampling techniques, or a copy of the reports im just going to take you at your word that it was done, and that it revealed the presence of a bunch of dangerous chemicals.
3. Which brings me to those chemicals. Haha you are obviously not an expert on industrial techniques, or the usage of those chemicals...but in your video you speficially mentioned several uses for them. But I as someone that does not actually participate in the industrial processes themselves...why is it that you believe you are qualified to make an assessment that the amounts being ordered were excessive, and therefor must have been used for other purposes as well.
4. At the end of your video you berated sites like this one because it contains people who "are not experts" in this field. Yet not only are you not an expert...but you seem to ignore the dozens of different academic scienfitic studies(independent of the government and military) that completely shatter this conspiracy theory in the first place. And these studies are conducted by actual Atmospheric Scientists...you know...with doctorates and dozens of years under their belt.
Haha the Laasko study(2012) study shows that chemtrails would be a really poor way to institute climate engineering anyway. So not only is the conpsiracy itself stupid...but the idea that these people would use one of the worst possible methods of environmental indtroduction is even more so.
Your video was laughable. Your information is laughable. Your evidence is nonexistent. But hey...im
I'm not sure why you say chemtrails are debunked they are completely real and have been around for years. Yes, I am a USAF whistleblower I mentioned the details in a different reply somewhere on this thread. The information is in front of our faces and the EPA knows it is going on but turns their head to it.
As someone who has my degree in environmental analysis, works in environmental education/analysis and regulation, and as someone who worked for some time in academic science specifically with soil science...It literally hurts my brain to hear you try to speak about your "credentials" and your "evidence."
1. In order to be a 4B0X1 "Bioenvironmental Engineer" in the Air Force you do not need a college degree, or any previous experience with scientific anaylsis whatsoever. You received what...a two month career specific training course? 68 days or so? And congratulations on getting your DOT hazardous materials training...thats a one day course. I know high schoolers that have that certification.
It sounds like the job you had was pretty much equivalent to any entry level environmental technician job or what local inspectors do. Again I know people fresh out of highschool that work these jobs. Not impressed with the long, scientific sounding title.
2. Sampling techniqes please? You have not said a thing about any of your methadology for sampling, or for subsequent analysis of these samples. In your video you just mentioned you had taken air and soil samples...haha where did this sampling occur Kristin because I doubt the Air Force just let you roam around the countryside with their equipment? And was this sampling verified by ANYONE else. Did anyone proof your methadology or copy your sampling reports?
Its cool though...without any shred of evidence, or verification of your sampling techniques, or a copy of the reports im just going to take you at your word that it was done, and that it revealed the presence of a bunch of dangerous chemicals.
3. Which brings me to those chemicals. Haha you are obviously not an expert on industrial techniques, or the usage of those chemicals...but in your video you speficially mentioned several uses for them. But I as someone that does not actually participate in the industrial processes themselves...why is it that you believe you are qualified to make an assessment that the amounts being ordered were excessive, and therefor must have been used for other purposes as well.
4. At the end of your video you berated sites like this one because it contains people who "are not experts" in this field. Yet not only are you not an expert...but you seem to ignore the dozens of different academic scienfitic studies(independent of the government and military) that completely shatter this conspiracy theory in the first place. And these studies are conducted by actual Atmospheric Scientists...you know...with doctorates and dozens of years under their belt.
Haha the Laasko study(2012) study shows that chemtrails would be a really poor way to institute climate engineering anyway. So not only is the conpsiracy itself stupid...but the idea that these people would use one of the worst possible methods of environmental indtroduction is even more so.
Your video was laughable. Your information is laughable. Your evidence is nonexistent. But hey...im
I work for a governmental Environmental Regulation agency so yes. Not any particular experience with aircraft maintenance...but plenty of experience with sampling/analysis methadology.
I work for a governmental Environmental Regulation agency so yes. Not any particular experience with aircraft maintenance...but plenty of experience with sampling/analysis methadology.
Oh god no...because my peers are highly educated professionals within the Academic Scientific community. Kristin was a relatively low level Envrionmental techician(not an actual engineer) with a few months of JOB SPECIFIC training.
Dont get me wrong...im not trying to downplay the importance of her former position. Im sure she was very good at performing the tasks within her job description. And those tasks are important in keeping our military personnel safe from dangerous contaminants. But to hear someone with her extremely limited background try to effectively discredit legitimate scientific research(which has thouroughly debunked the chemtrail conspiracy on every single occasion) is just hilarious.
Oh god no...because my peers are highly educated professionals within the Academic Scientific community. Kristin was a relatively low level Envrionmental techician(not an actual engineer) with a few months of JOB SPECIFIC training.
Dont get me wrong...im not trying to downplay the importance of her former position. Im sure she was very good at performing the tasks within her job description. And those tasks are important in keeping our military personnel safe from dangerous contaminants. But to hear someone with her extremely limited background try to effectively discredit legitimate scientific research(which has thouroughly debunked the chemtrail conspiracy on every single occasion) is just hilarious.
Thanks for your input . . . it is always good to have someone with specific experience, training and technical familiarity comment about Meghan's testimony . . . you are validating our thoughts regarding her story . . . We share your misgivings . . .
Everyone has words they use but don't really see . . . it is difficult to edit your own work sometimes . . . I see what I expect to see not what is there . . .
Yes, Kristen, I have done the (49 CFR Part 172, Subpart H) HAZWOPERS training just the same as you. So has every single employee I work with, right down to the cooks, dishwashers and folks that change and wash bed linens. It is indeed a one day course. BTW, I've taken the course about 5 times so far. We get periodically refreshed. [...]
Not insinuating that Kristen is inferior to me. Considering she has taken the class as have most over-the road-truck drivers, we are all one big happy family.
Is it just coincidence, or is there some reason why none of these interviewers are asking Kristen, "Well, what's next?"
For sure some of the commenters are, but why aren't the questioners asking about the elephant in the room?
Are they just too stupid to want more of the story, are they warned off beforehand by her, is someone else pulling the strings, or are they all in on it?
I would be curious to see what she could make as a "professional" speaker . . . seems there would need to be a minimum market to exploit . . . don't think it is sufficient enough to support her and many others . . . her appeal as the present darling of chemtrails will only last a while . . . so she must take advantage of it while she is a hot item . . .
I would be curious to see what she could make as a "professional" speaker . . . seems there would need to be a minimum market to exploit . . . don't think it is sufficient enough to support her and many others . . . though her appeal as the present darling of chemtrails will only last a while . . . so she must take advantage of it while she is a hot item . . .
AJ seems to have an adequate network and net worth to invest in a potential cash generating "professional speaker" . . . wonder if he sees Meghan as an asset?
Good is a relative term . . . she inspires the believers and speaks with conviction . . . she superficially appears to be a credentialed insider with knowledge and information that can be conflated into something approaching what her audience wants to hear about the military's involvement in "Chemtrails" . . . as long as she does not deny this link she will continue to be exploited by the promoters . . .
Honestly, for the audience she's in front of, I think she's actually pretty good. She speaks with conviction and seems approachable. Someone who's more formal and better with oratory doesn't seem as 'real' and down to earth as she does. Watching the videos, she seems to be sincere, and if I wasn't trained to believe evidence more than emotional appeal, I would find her very convincing. Unlike Alex Jones, who is kind of unctuous and threatening at the same time, somehow. I wouldn't underestimate her appeal.
Imagine you're a person who just knows the world is falling apart and the government is out to get people like you. If you watch that interview, Kristen just threw you a lifeline. She confirmed what you already know. If you listen to all of the words and try to make something meaningful from them, it's a horrible hash, but that hardly matters. I honestly don't know how to get through to people like that, but I know some of them.
Imagine you're a person who just knows the world is falling apart and the government is out to get people like you. If you watch that interview, Kristen just threw you a lifeline. She confirmed what you already know. If you listen to all of the words and try to make something meaningful from them, it's a horrible hash, but that hardly matters. I honestly don't know how to get through to people like that, but I know some of them.
But does that mean that the people that do that have some sort of mental instability or are completely paranoid? This view of "the world is out to get me" or "the rest of the world is crazy and I'm the only sane one" is usually a pretty good indication of paranoia at a minimum or paranoid schizophrenia at the worst case scenario.. How does latching on to something that is THAT incredibly terrifying offer any kind of solace? It doesnt make sense unless you liken it to thrill seekers (IE people that love roller coasters, or sky diving, or bungee jumping because it causes an adrenaline rush).
I agree with what you're saying Mike, I do... and you're right, it makes sense if you put yourself in those shoes and look through their eyes, but it doesnt make sense on the whole, which is what I think we all want people to realize.
P.S. Just want to clarify, Im making an observation about the mentality of the individuals of your post Mike, not refuting or rebutting it in anyway.. just couldnt find the words to make it sound that way.
Imagine you're a person who just knows the world is falling apart and the government is out to get people like you. If you watch that interview, Kristen just threw you a lifeline. She confirmed what you already know. If you listen to all of the words and try to make something meaningful from them, it's a horrible hash, but that hardly matters. I honestly don't know how to get through to people like that, but I know some of them.
I agree with what you're saying Mike, I do... and you're right, it makes sense if you put yourself in those shoes and look through their eyes, but it doesnt make sense on the whole, which is what I think we all want people to realize.
P.S. Just want to clarify, Im making an observation about the mentality of the individuals of your post Mike, not refuting or rebutting it in anyway.. just couldnt find the words to make it sound that way.
Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you Svartbjørn, I just know several people who think like that, and they are fine functioning in the world and their jobs, but hold these beliefs. Some of them even work for the government.
Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with you Svartbjørn, I just know several people who think like that, and they are fine functioning in the world and their jobs, but hold these beliefs. Some of them even work for the government.
Sorry Mark, was a typo didnt mean to type Mike. I understand what you're saying, and Im not saying -everyone- is unstable, Im saying that it doesnt seem to make sense to find comfort in an incredibly disturbing scenario. If I found out that my government was intentionally trying to murder me on a daily basis, or the airline pilots I fly with regularly were intentionally poisoning me or my family, or the guys that I spent a decade with as a Marine (also insert any other branch that is being held responsible) itd increase my fear not quell it. I know this sounds like an argument from incredulity, but Im honestly just trying to wrap my head around it.
Sure, the government is responsible for things clandestine.. every government is, but it doesnt make sense to try to murder your own population.. take out your enemies.. SURE.. but why slaughter the very people that make you the money that you're trying to get from them? The fewer ppl there are, the less money you make.. which, if I understand how all this works with the consipracy, is the main motivator. Even if it were the most evil and vile Monsanto Corporation (devil horns, pitch fork and pointy tail included lol), they're still shooting themselves in the foot. Fewer people == less money. Like I said, I enjoyed the post, and it does make SOME sense if you put yourself in their shoes, but the best advice I can hand them is to put those questions to them and make them think about it.. they'll probably find that they feel a lot better about the whole situation when they take a step back and look at the situation as a whole. Id also like to offer an apology if I insulted you or your friends in anyway with the post before, it wasnt meant as a personal slap at them or you.
If I found out that my government was intentionally trying to murder me on a daily basis, or the airline pilots I fly with regularly were intentionally poisoning me or my family, or the guys that I spent a decade with as a Marine (also insert any other branch that is being held responsible) itd increase my fear not quell it. I know this sounds like an argument from incredulity, but Im honestly just trying to wrap my head around it.
The comfort comes, I think, from being able to attribute the bad feelings and fear to something specific, instead of a vague feeling of unfocused dread. Something specific you can fight against, or at least rail against by posting on message boards and marching with signs. My view is probably skewed by living in Texas and coming from a family that has a history of racism, right wing politics, and mental illness. Among my personal acquaintances, I would say that as many as 25% are heavily into conspiracy theories.
But these theories can't be too specific, because if you drill down to observable facts,. the theories tend to fall apart, as you say. I think that's a really good thing about this site, that it encourages people to think more precisely about the kind of obstacles there would be to carrying out such a conspiracy, both based on how humans act and how physics works.
Meghan seems to hit the conspiracy sweet spot between ignorance and knowledge. I think she's going to appeal to that 25%.
Ahhh, I understand where you're coming from now.. and dont worry, didnt seem too much like a ramble to me at all, on the contrary it helped me get to understand how your mind works a bit better and thats always a good thing. I agree with you completely that this site's great for critical thinking.. and I can definitely appreciate the input coming from a person with your background, I grew up in a very different type of family so a different perspective on the world is always welcome.
Svart and Mark - I think what you are talking around is the concept of certainty.
My understanding of human psychology (which is mostly of ht "pop" variety) is that we all crave certainty - it is easier to handle anything if we actually think we know what is causing it!
So people who already think something is wrong will actually welcome a theory that explains it to them - if they already think hte Govt is evil then chemtrails explains it and is preferable to "not knowing".
