The years-late-kinda-sorta-semi-debunking of the California CARET "Dragonfly" Drones...

LanaiGuy

New Member
A bit of background: I live in San Jose, California and the CARET/"Dragonfly" Drones always fascinated me. I always thought they were a hoax. Even my brother, an amateur 3D artist and graphic designer said they were fake and that the renders, while cool, weren't completely "real" looking to him.

Anyhow, this may be coming far too late...but I've actually spoken with Margaret Gel, the person who claims to have created the "alien language" seen on the drones. She tells all on her personal website but I contacted her to get some clarification on some of the things I've been curious about for years.

https://margaretgel.com/the-isaac-caret-hoax/
External Quote:

Around the turn of the century I made some art. This art was stolen by someone I thought I could trust. They put it in a hoax, called the Isaac Caret hoax. They also stole 3D rendering mockups from many different artists online, of UFOs.

That was nearly a quarter of a century ago.

For the longest, I did nothing. When the artwork was first stolen nearly 25 years ago, I consulted a lawyer, who told me that nothing could be done. The art was out there; and that was that. The bell could not be unrung. I also feared being sued by the person who stole my artwork, because they threatened to sue me if I ever told anyone. No idea how that would've worked: but I'm taking my chances, now. (At the time, I was told that the fact that my full legal (deadname now) name was encoded in the chart essentially meant nothing when it came to copyright lawsuits: 'just because you put your name on it, doesn't mean you own it.' No idea how true that is but that's 90% of why I didn't say shit about it until now.)


Before I continue, please take this as you will. Her admission on the website is understandably hard to swallow. But I thought I'd tell it because, honestly, it's fairly new information and needs to be told.

She gave me the following:
  • Gel was part of an online forum dedicated to creating 3D art. She was in a sub-group who did artwork about aliens and UFOs. The group members eventually wanted to create an online UFO e-zine as most of them saw themselves as "experiencers" and thought there might be other people who would want to read it and not feel alone.
  • "Stephen" (who would later release the 4th and 5th sets of photos taken off Big Basin Highway 9 in the Saratoga Mountains near the winery) was the man behind the first group of photos ever released (dubbed the "Chad" photos) that eventually made their way to Coast to Coast. THAT, however, was not Stephen's intention.
  • There was a man on the forum by the name of "Isaac" whose real name was Chad. Chad saw money to be made on the e-zine and proposed charging people money to read it. When the forum basically told him to screw off with that idea, this enraged him and Chad made off with a bunch of their renders (including the "alien tech" seen in the "Isaac documents") and bolted for Coast to Coast, releasing Stephen's photos.
  • When Stephen found out that Chad had done this (idiot used his real name), Stephen went after Chad, threatening to tell everyone that it was a hoax but Chad countered with legal action. When that never materialized, Stephen sent Chad a C&D and that scared Chad enough that he stopped his roll.
  • This didn't stop a friend of Chad's from releasing more renders. Another user named "Raj" (yes, another real name) released more photos, claiming to have seen these things in the sky. When people found out Raj had done this, he was kicked off the group for stealing renders and claiming them as his own.
  • Rather than attempting to beat them, Stephen attempted to get in on the act and tossed his in a Listserv to see if he could fool people. These were the "Stephen" and "Ty" photos. When he was called out for it being a hoax (the "drones" began looking ridiculous with extra multiple parts and just looked goofy), he got upset and the ordeal tarnished his reputation with the photography group he was in. Gel says that Stephen died in 2013. He was in his 60's and had huge health issues.
  • Then, of course, we got the Isaac documents with "alien tech". Gel says she made the assembly diagrams for the pieces, but that not everything in those docs were renders and were actually man-made by one of their artists in Canada. She says the guy who put the pieces together didn't even do it correctly. She says the guy probably still has them or destroyed them. Says that guy's name was Chris.
  • She said there was a group effort to nail Chad for what he did -- but then she said that the Terminator series used their stuff and they backed off because they thought that Fox would simply call it their own or claim it was part of their IP now.
Anyhow, Gel got sick and tired of it and the final straw was when she was watching UFO stuff on YouTube in the early 2020's and came across the 2008 episode featuring the CARET drones. She had no idea it had gotten that "known". That's when she decided to tell her story.

Again, hope this all helps.
 
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Again, hope this all helps.

With what?

Maybe start with whatever this is all about. Haven't heard of The CARET dragonfly drones before, so not sure what to make of this. Start with the claim and/or event and photos. Others here may know, but I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't live in San Jose, so maybe that's why, but hey, I did grow up in the '70s in nearby Morgan Hill :).
 
Her admission on the website is understandably hard to swallow.

Yeah, I have trouble with
External Quote:
I got abducted by space aliens around the age of 4.
I've stood on the Moon
...in the "About Margaret Gel (icze4r)" section, https://margaretgel.com/about/

But she might be the designer of the characters in the images of the claimed drones. Someone was.

The CARET drone claims/ photos (CARET meaning "Commercial Application Research for Extraterrestrial Technology", Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_photographs#The_"CARET_Drones") look likely to be a not very elaborate hoax relying on some computer-generated imagery and someone anonymously claiming to be involved in reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology. That person, possibly others, then shared the images with Coast to Coast AM and Linda Moulton Howe.
There's the familiar problem of why you would test-fly secret aircraft in public areas.

There's a Wikiwand article, "CARET" Drone Incident", which gives some background, no idea how reliable it might be (if at all),
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident. It says "Isaac", the person claiming to have reverse-engineered the drones while working at the (almost certainly fictitious) CARET program in Palo Alto, explained that the drones became
External Quote:
..."suddenly visible" due to their "cloaking" abilities going haywire.
This still doesn't explain why something so secret wouldn't be tested in a public place, away from the tracking and calibration equipment and maintenance and recovery teams of an actual test area, and why, having had your "invisible" drone reveal itself once, you'd continue flying it in public areas. And keep doing so after each time it's been seen. It's ridiculous.

Even MUFON (having described the photos as "...the most dramatic UFO Photos since Gulf Breeze"; apparently unwilling to accept the Gulf Breeze photos were debunked in 1990) didn't seem wholly convinced,
External Quote:
It appears that the Internet has become the media of choice for persons making unsubstantiated and extraordinary UFO claims while hiding behind fictitious names or anonymity. ...I would love for the drone photos and the CARET program to be real, but until the photo-witnesses come forward out of the shadows in which they hide and their identities irrefutably established, their claims are dubious.
"The Drones and the CARET Documents: One Year Later: Part 1", MUFON UFO Journal 480, James Carrion, MUFON International Director, viewable as a PDF courtesy of The Black Vault website, https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/MUFON/Journals/2008/April_2008.pdf

A bit dispiritingly, the author doesn't appear to be aware that people who have irrefutably established their identities have also told us tall tales about UFOs in the past. If the claimed "CARET drone" witnesses came forward with their real names, that wouldn't necessarily make their accounts more believable. It would be more relevant to know if they knew each other and "Isaac" or not, or if they were involved in the same on-line communities.
 
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For those who don;t recall, that was THESE things:

delme.png


delme.jpg


To me, back then, there was little need to dive deeply into them -- they seemed self-evidently CGI, and my need to prove it to anybody's satisfaction but my own was then nonexistent! ^^
 
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With what?

Maybe start with whatever this is all about. Haven't heard of The CARET dragonfly drones before, so not sure what to make of this. Start with the claim and/or event and photos. Others here may know, but I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't live in San Jose, so maybe that's why, but hey, I did grow up in the '70s in nearby Morgan Hill :).

Oh man...this rabbit hole...see below. I think someone summarized it.
 
Yeah, I have trouble with
External Quote:
I got abducted by space aliens around the age of 4.
I've stood on the Moon
...in the "About Margaret Gel (icze4r)" section, https://margaretgel.com/about/

But she might be the designer of the characters in the images of the claimed drones. Someone was.

The CARET drone claims/ photos (CARET meaning "Commercial Application Research for Extraterrestrial Technology", Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_photographs#The_"CARET_Drones") look likely to be a not very elaborate hoax relying on some computer-generated imagery and someone anonymously claiming to be involved in reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology. That person, possibly others, then shared the images with Coast to Coast AM and Linda Moulton Howe.
There's the familiar problem of why you would test-fly secret aircraft in public areas.

There's a Wikiwand article, "CARET" Drone Incident", which gives some background, no idea how reliable it might be (if at all),
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident. It says "Isaac", the person claiming to have reverse-engineered the drones while working at the (almost certainly fictitious) CARET program in Palo Alto, explained that the drones became
External Quote:
..."suddenly visible" due to their "cloaking" abilities going haywire.
This still doesn't explain why something so secret wouldn't be tested in a public place, away from the tracking and calibration equipment and maintenance and recovery teams of an actual test area, and why, having had your "invisible" drone reveal itself once, you'd continue flying it in public areas. And keep doing so after each time it's been seen. It's ridiculous.

Even MUFON (having described the photos as "...the most dramatic UFO Photos since Gulf Breeze"; apparently unwilling to accept the Gulf Breeze photos were debunked in 1990) didn't seem wholly convinced,
External Quote:
It appears that the Internet has become the media of choice for persons making unsubstantiated and extraordinary UFO claims while hiding behind fictitious names or anonymity. ...I would love for the drone photos and the CARET program to be real, but until the photo-witnesses come forward out of the shadows in which they hide and their identities irrefutably established, their claims are dubious.
"The Drones and the CARET Documents: One Year Later: Part 1", MUFON UFO Journal 480, James Carrion, MUFON International Director, viewable as a PDF courtesy of The Black Vault website, https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/MUFON/Journals/2008/April_2008.pdf

A bit dispiritingly, the author doesn't appear to be aware that people who have irrefutably established their identities have also told us tall tales about UFOs in the past. If the claimed "CARET drone" witnesses came forward with there real names, that wouldn't necessarily make their accounts more believable. It would be more relevant to know if they knew each other and "Isaac" or not, or if they were involved in the same on-line communities.
Yeah...again, I said that her version of events might be hard to swallow but there are two things in her favor: she points out what everything means in the diagrams and how to decipher them -- and she talks, at length, about how Stephen hoaxed things and kinda screwed himself -- and she and Stephen were fairly close knit.

That Wiki article? I wrote it. The whole thing. It was dumped from Wikipedia for being "not notable" and the entire thing was becoming a mob to have it removed. Four editors got on my case, thinking I'd fight them. I asked, politely, to have the article removed if that's what they wished and they did it. Good times.

Everything else you're saying is absolutely spot on. I've said the same. Added to which, I live in the area where the photos were shot and have been to three of the four locations. There's no way nobody else saw these things from where they were shot (busy highways/populated areas/etc) and every single "witness" lied about the locations.

So, yeah, there was a HELL of a lot wrong with the story.

I know you might take Gel's story with a grain of salt...but she actually sounds like the most sane person in the bunch who tried to push this nonsense.
 
To me, back then, there was little need to dive deeply into them -- they seemed self-evidently CGI, and my need to prove it to anybody's satisfaction but my own was then nonexistent! ^^
Ugh, that's not even good CGI, the lighting's all wrong. This is CGI from the 90s, right? (So was /Jurassic Park/, so #notall90sCGI)
 
For those who don;t recall, that was THESE things:



To me, back then, there was little need to dive deeply into them -- they seemed self-evidently CGI, and my need to prove it to anybody's satisfaction but my own was then nonexistent! ^^
Haha I remember these pics! I thought they were definitively debunked, or even admitted to be faked, pretty quickly. My memory might be wrong though. Like @FatPhil said, it's not even a good hoax!
 
Oh man...this rabbit hole...see below. I think someone summarized it.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but that's NOT how it's done here. Your Opening Post (OP) makes NO mention of what your talking about, aside from mentioning the name of this supposed hoax. Instead of providing us with any overview, description, reports or photos about this event, with sources, you just jumped into a quote from a Ms. Gel. Which is then followed by a lengthy list of paraphrased accounts that sounds like a Jr. High spat.

Yes @John J. provided some links related to the event and @JMartJr provided a photo, but they should NOT have to. That is your job as the thread starter. We have no idea what you're talking about in the OP, and we should NOT have to go search and look up what supposed hoax you're referring to in an attempt to understand.

Please provide the claim, with sources, that you are trying to debunk with Ms. Gel's assertions.

If appears this happened in 2007, and if this is the supposed UFO/drone thing:

1786030861602.png


Then Jamie Maussan's VFX guy, who goes by the handle Ledrack, was posting something similar around that time. I don't know if he's vamping on the CARET photos or vice-verca:

1786031131069.png



Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bq9fC14ew
 
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That Wiki article? I wrote it. The whole thing. It was dumped from Wikipedia for being "not notable" and the entire thing was becoming a mob to have it removed. Four editors got on my case, thinking I'd fight them. I asked, politely, to have the article removed if that's what they wished and they did it. Good times.
Wikipedia, of course, doesn't want you writing content straight to Wikipedia, even if you have direct personal knowledge of the topic (and particularly if the topic is about something you were involved in).
 
Sorry, I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but that's NOT how it's done here. Your Opening Post (OP) makes NO mention of what your talking about, aside from mentioning the name of this supposed hoax. Instead of providing us with any overview, description, reports or photos about this event, with sources, you just jumped into a quote from a Ms. Gel. Which is then followed by a lengthy list of paraphrased accounts that sounds like a Jr. High spat.

Yes @John J. provided some links related to the event and @JMartJr provided a photo, but they should NOT have to. That is your job as the thread starter. We have no idea what you're talking about in the OP, and we should NOT have to go search and look up what supposed hoax you're referring to in an attempt to understand.

Please provide the claim, with sources, that you are trying to debunk with Ms. Gel's assertions.

It appears this happened in 2007, and if this is the supposed UFO/drone thing:

View attachment 92491

Then Jamie Maussan's VFX guy, who goes by the handle Ledrack, was posting something similar around that time. I don't know if he's vamping on the CARET photos or vice-verca:

View attachment 92492


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Bq9fC14ew


Oh, he was DEFINITELY trying to ride in on their coattails.

Apologies for not posting all the links. The reason I didn't was because I had assumed everyone knew about it (it's a fairly infamous hoax) and most of the links are outdated and I would have had to go fishing on the Wayback Machine to get everything since most of these links are toast.

Drone Team has all the photos and stories:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140531065044/http://www.droneteam.com/

Isaac papers:
https://ia601400.us.archive.org/31/...-report/Isaac_caret-q4-86-research-report.pdf

Hope that helps.

Wikipedia, of course, doesn't want you writing content straight to Wikipedia, even if you have direct personal knowledge of the topic (and particularly if the topic is about something you were involved in).
I wasn't involved in it. And I spoke with Gel after the fact. Also, everyone has to have some personal knowledge of something. If I had personal knowledge of guitars, am I forbidden from writing about guitars? That seems kinda silly.
 
Hope that helps.

No. It does not. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass or annoying, but I'm surprised the OP was even allowed. These are just links, and no, it's not a fairly famous hoax. Many of our members are not only not in the Bay Area, they don't live in the US.

Please see and review the Posting Guidelines from the tab at the top of the page:



External Quote:

Guidelines for new threads
  1. Focus on individual claims of evidence, not broader theories, and with one claim of evidence per thread
  2. Title the thread with something that identifies that claim, preferably with an appropriate tag word/phrase describing what the first post does (e.g. "Claim:" , "Debunked:", "Fake:", "Need Debunking:" (only use descriptors that you can back up)
  3. Describe what the claim of evidence is, who made it, where they made it, what the known facts are, what are the disputed facts, and what is the broader theory that this claim is supporting.
  4. Link and Quote the claim. Use
    External Quote:
    ...
    tags
    .
  5. Debunk it if possible. Explain what the problems with the claim are - both evidence and conclusions. Link to other sites that discuss the claim.
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  9. Don't just post something and say "what do you guys think?".
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/

Specifically, note #8 Links. This refers to the No Click Policy:

External Quote:

The reader should not have to click on a link in order to understand what the post is about. When you link to something to back up something you are discussing then:
Links themselves are not content, they are references
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/metabunks-link-policy.5158/

Your just posting links and asking us to go figure out what our talking about so then we can try to understand what Ms. Gel's claims have to do with any of this.

Again, please use your sources to post quotes and photos so we can understand the context of this claim. At his point, I'm not sure what the claim is.
 
No. It does not. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass or annoying, but I'm surprised the OP was even allowed. These are just links, and no, it's not a fairly famous hoax. Many of our members are not only not in the Bay Area, they don't live in the US.

Please see and review the Posting Guidelines from the tab at the top of the page:



External Quote:

Guidelines for new threads
  1. Focus on individual claims of evidence, not broader theories, and with one claim of evidence per thread
  2. Title the thread with something that identifies that claim, preferably with an appropriate tag word/phrase describing what the first post does (e.g. "Claim:" , "Debunked:", "Fake:", "Need Debunking:" (only use descriptors that you can back up)
  3. Describe what the claim of evidence is, who made it, where they made it, what the known facts are, what are the disputed facts, and what is the broader theory that this claim is supporting.
  4. Link and Quote the claim. Use
    External Quote:
    ...
    tags
    .
  5. Debunk it if possible. Explain what the problems with the claim are - both evidence and conclusions. Link to other sites that discuss the claim.
  6. Ask specific questions about what you don't know about the claim
  7. Videos must be accompanied by a description of the video, identifying the claim made in it, with time location if longer than 1 minute. See the Link Policy.
  8. Links must be accompanied by an excerpt from the link, and/or a focussed description of what is being linked to. Not just a "this is interesting" line. See the No Click Policy.
  9. Don't just post something and say "what do you guys think?".
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/posting-guidelines.2064/

Specifically, note #8 Links. This refers to the No Click Policy:

External Quote:

The reader should not have to click on a link in order to understand what the post is about. When you link to something to back up something you are discussing then:
Links themselves are not content, they are references
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/metabunks-link-policy.5158/

Your just posting links and asking us to go figure out what our talking about so then we can try to understand what Ms. Gel's claims have to do with any of this.

Again, please use your sources to post quotes and photos so we can understand the context of this claim. At his point, I'm not sure what the claim is.
Ok. Would you like me to edit my post above or would you like me to reply below? This is my first time here. I am sorry if I didn't know the rules.
 
the first time that I saw the pics was about 10 years ago, when I read the write up about it on the Iron Skeptic's site (www.theironskeptic.com/articles/issac/issac.htm) but at the time didn't know there was a video.

Oh dear god, that thing is one of the worst fakes I've ever seen.

A mixture of "too bad" to be real - the lighting, the silly ship and absurd animation...

plus the too "good" to be real - the smoothly damped zooms in and out and the tracking of the thing, that's way to accurate and smooth to be possible, by someone who just happened to see this thing in the sky and grabbed a video.

The creator of it seems to be have been so proud of their weird alien craft model, that they couldn't bring themselves to do what the more competent junk purveyors do. That being to slather their original crisp bit of CG, with a bunch of post-processing to hide as much detail as possible.
 
the first time that I saw the pics was about 10 years ago, when I read the write up about it on the Iron Skeptic's site (www.theironskeptic.com/articles/issac/issac.htm) but at the time didn't know there was a video.

Oh dear god, that thing is one of the worst fakes I've ever seen.

A mixture of "too bad" to be real - the lighting, the silly ship and absurd animation...

plus the too "good" to be real - the smoothly damped zooms in and out and the tracking of the thing, that's way to accurate and smooth to be possible, by someone who just happened to see this thing in the sky and grabbed a video.

The creator of it seems to be have been so proud of their weird alien craft model, that they couldn't bring themselves to do what the more competent junk purveyors do. That being to slather their original crisp bit of CG, with a bunch of post-processing to hide as much detail as possible.
And to think there was an entire community treating it as if it was real. Most VFX artists I know who saw the pics all said it was a render and pointed out artifacts and bad lighting.

Iron Skeptic's write-up on it is classic, especially his bit about CARET and what it stood for and why NO secret government project would EVER have "extraterrestrial" in its name. I have an uncle and a friend who both work at Lockheed and they even agree with that. While they can't say what they work on, they have said that secret projects always have benign names.

A note on the video...not sure which ones you've seen but they're clearly marked as fakes. The ones by Kris Avery, especially. He did it to prove it could be done.
 
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This is CGI from the 90s, right? (So was /Jurassic Park/, so #notall90sCGI)
Perhaps they did not have Jurassic Park budget?


Edit to add... standing at a baggage carrousel, may have to run grab my bag... but weren't these associated with VFX from a movie or ad campaign or something? Or is memory playing me false...?
 
Ok. Would you like me to edit my post above or would you like me to reply below? This is my first time here. I am sorry if I didn't know the rules.

You're probably outside of the edit window. I'll spot you. I would think the OP should have started something like this:

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In 2007 a number of anonymous witnesses claimed to have seen UFOs which they described as "drones" in a variety of locations in California. These witnesses managed to capture photos of these "drones" and sent them to UFO websites and organizations, like MUFON as well as Art Bell/George Noori, the hosts of the popular UFO/paranormal radio show Coast to Coast AM (C2C). In addition, UFO journalist and C2C regular, Linda Moulton Howe received witness reports and photos.

Most of the sourcing for this event is tucked away in various sites on the Wayback Machine. A wikiwand article lists some of these sightings:

External Quote:

On May 10th, 2007, a user by the name of "Chad" sent a series of photos to the Coast to Coast AM website, claiming that he had seen the aircraft in the photos hovering in the area where he and his wife had gone for a walk.

Two days later, on May 12th, 2007, MUFON posted a report from "Deborah McKinley" who claimed to be from San Jose, California. McKinley claimed that she and her husband were on a weekend vacation in Lake Tahoe, Nevada when she saw the craft floating outside while she was getting her sweater from their car.

Eight days later, on May 20th, 2007, a Craigslist user named "Rajinder Satyanarayana" (AKA "Rajman1977") posted a series of six pictures showing a similar craft above what he claimed to be Capitola, California.

On June 6th, 2007, a woman identified as "Jenna L." posted three photos of a similar craft at the UFO Casebook website on behalf of a man named "Stephen" who claimed to have seen the craft in the air while working in Big Basin in California.

Five days later, on June 11th, 2007, a person named "Ty" claimed to have been bicycling in the same area Stephen was the day before his sighting and also saw the same craft Stephen did. He sent 12 photos to UFOlogist, Linda Moulton Howe, who posted the photos on her Earthfiles website. The craft was similar to Stephen's craft.[1]
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident

Some of the drones in the photos supposedly had some sort of writing on them, though at present all I can find are small thumbnails.

At the end of June 2007, someone named "Issac" published an open letter/document on a personal website that appeared to be created just for this release, though is now defunked and was reposted by C2C and on Howe's Earthfiles. In this document, Isaac claimed to be involved in reverse engineering of alien technology, which resulted in the drones that were being sighted:

External Quote:

I'm going by the alias "Isaac" while I release this information. I'm an electrical engineer and computer scientist and used to work in a program called "CARET" that was concerned with research and development based on extra-terrestrial technology. Many key elements of the technology I worked with during my time with CARET are clearly visible in these crafts.
Isaac also claimed that the supposed writing on some of the drones, is in fact like magic:

External Quote:

The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks
https://web.archive.org/web/20150213004952/http://droneteam.com/history/isaac/

MUFON investigator Steve Reichmuth determined the photos to be amateurish CGI hoaxes:

External Quote:

Reichmuth concluded that the photos were computer-generated hoaxes based upon analysis by VFX artists Steve Neil (who had done work for The History Channel) and Marc D'Antonio (who owns a Connecticut VFX business). The latter said that the photos "were not even GOOD fakes", and that the "hoaxer" in question used radiosity in the creation of the photos, and that rendering artifacts were left behind due to the perceived lack of use of settings prior to rendering.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident

In addition a later group, calling themselves The Drone Team set about investigating these sightings. They found that many of the reported locations of the sightings and resulting photos were misleading or completely wrong:

External Quote:

Much effort was spent looking in Capitola, CA for the photographed pole. All the locations in the photos were later found to be in Campbell, CA which is contrary to what Raj claimed in his writings.

The Chad photo site was discovered along Highway 17 [3], not Bakersfield as implied to LMH.
As well as identifying at least some of the people involved:
External Quote:


The full names of Jenna Liusang and Stephen F. Jain were revealed in a post by OMF admin here, but now defunct. The email looks like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092503/http://droneteam.com/mediawiki/index.php/Stephen_details

Years later artist and UFO experiencer Margaret Gel, claimed that she made many of the shapes and the glyphs used:

External Quote:

The photos and documents were all but revealed to be a hoax 16 years later when writer/artist Margaret Gel revealed that she was the creator of the "alien language" seen in the documents and on the drones themselves and that the drones were CG objects created by fellow artists she knew online before her language and the drone designs were stolen by the person who first released the photos and the primer.[50]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_photographs

However, following the footnote (#50) from the Wiki page takes us to Gel's page where she does say the aliens helped her create the glyphs:

External Quote:

I made this. A space alien helped me. Given the circumstances, at this present time, the time of this writing, even if I could present some sort of evidence that proved that I made this, I'm not even sure how you prove that you drew something. Given that the existence of space aliens and UFOs is a 'touchy' subject to the dumbfuck Americans right now, there's no real way to prove the space alien portion of what I've said, anyways.

But the thing is this.

I never said that all the names in the thing were of human beings. In fact, only about four of them are. The rest are space alien names: the very same people who adopted me when I lived on the Ship.
https://www.icze4r.org/apocalypse/isaac.caret.hoax.html

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@LanaiGuy Now we're all on the same page. We have a quick account of the Dragonfly/CARET/drone hoax and now we have the context for what you're talking about in the OP
 
All right...since I can't edit my original post, I'll just write the background here. If any moderators would like to add it to my OP, please feel free to do so. I am writing this per the rules that have been so eloquently explained to me:

Almost 20 years ago, in April/May of 2007, some guy named "Chad" sent an email to Coast to Coast AM, claiming that he had seen a strange aircraft hovering in the sky. He said that it moved slow and then would bolt when it wanted to get out there. A few days later, he wrote back into C2C and elaborated on the object: he'd seen it "numerous times" and that it made "crackling noises" like "large power lines". Chad (who initially said he was "from Bakersfield, California") claimed that he had been given headaches and that his wife also felt fatigued. Anyhow, these were a couple of the pics he posted:

7147b6a7f67dfc1a09508fc59159eedc.jpg

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Almost a week later, MUFON was contacted by a woman named "Deborah McKinley" who said that she saw a similar craft while she and her husband were in Lake Tahoe. She said it hovered and spun quietly, then slowly it got behind some trees. She claims they drove around to find it but couldn't. This is one of the pics they claim to have taken:

16c7b8d86c679ab134e755977f9d4a08.jpg


About fifteen days later, a Craigslist user named "Raj" claimed to have seen one of these things floating around his fiancé's parents' house in Capitola, California and that he managed to get off six snaps after it "took off" over their house. Raj was the most talkative of the witnesses and made sure to answer any and all questions on the Open Minds Forum boards. He even gave permission to have the photos posted everywhere and anywhere they wanted. He would put them on his Flickr page (the now defunct "rajman1977") but the page was hacked and the photos were removed. This was one of the better photos he took:

1ut6261zcbze1.jpeg


Finally, there were the "Stephen" sightings. These were reportedly taken in "Big Basin" in California and Stephen's colleague "Jenna" put them on a photography Listserv. Again, it was your usual "anyone know what this is" post:

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There was another series of extremely clear photos by a user named "Ty" who was in the Big Basin area on the same day as "Stephen" who saw the same craft as above. His photos were horribly grainy and looked like the ISO had been jacked up. The craft was blurrier than the background as well and the craft itself looked more than a bit ridiculous...but here's one of the pics:

images.jpg


Then came the biggest whopper of them all...like clockwork, some guy named "Isaac" came out of the woodwork and decided to give everyone a rundown on the recent sightings. Claiming to work for government agency in Palo Alto, California named "CARET" (which, laughably, is supposed to stand for Commercial Applications Research for Extraterrestrial Technology), Isaac said that the drones were part of their program and were being tested nearby. The link to his "story" is below (too much text to post here, I'm sorry):

https://web.archive.org/web/2010081...oax.com/drone_history/isaac_documentation.htm

He also attached a "quarterly report from 1986" which has pictures of supposed "alien tech" as well as a primer for the "language" seen in the drone photos:

https://ia601400.us.archive.org/31/...rt/Isaac_caret-q4-86-research-report_text.pdf

All of this went pretty much NOWHERE.

The local press gave it scant coverage, only mentioning a small bit of Raj's tale, and, to my knowledge, didn't even use his photos in their articles. The only national press it seemed to get was from Fox News and, by that time, there was an actual private investigator on the case and you could hear the incredulity from everyone involved in the segment.

Some notable moments attached to this short-lived saga: History Channel's "UFO Hunters" did an episode on "recovered alien tech" and featured the drones there. Fox's "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" had an episode featuring the drones eventually being adopted into Skynet's arsenal. Dell used the "alien language" seen on the drones on their "Alienware" PC's and laptops, so at least it was inspiring to some and there were, of course, some who thought that the whole thing was viral hoax built up to support the Terminator show or Dell's PC's...but the creators of the show denied they had anything to do with it and one of the writers said he had been inspired by the sightings and wanted to use it because he thought it was "Zeitgeist". Dell's people also denied it and said that they didn't hold the IP but used it anyway as nobody had stepped forward to claim it.

From there, the photos were studied by a very small group of people on the Internet who went over each detail in each photo with a fine tooth comb.

Some progress was made during the hunt and the more that was revealed, the more it looked like a hoax:
  • Chad's photos were found to be shot at the now-defunct Summit Restaurant between San Jose and Santa Cruz, California (https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDgwMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==), not in "Bakersfield" as he claimed to be from. There are some who contest this, saying that Chad only said he was from Bakersfield and didn't claim to actually shoot there. Regardless, even if you take that away, the photos were taken next to one of the busiest highways in Northern California: Highway 17 which is the main vein between Santa Cruz and the Silicon Valley. Thousands travel it each day and there's no way that this thing wouldn't have been seen by other people.
  • Raj's photos were found to have been taken in Campbell, California, not "Capitola" as was claimed. The two are over 30 miles from one another and you can only get there by using (wait for it...) Highway 17 because it's right next to Santa Cruz. There is no way to mistake the two. Furthermore, the object in Raj's photos were shot in a neighborhood comprised of several businesses, a train station, a large apartment complex and several houses. There's also a large corporate building across from Highway 17 that overlooks the area as well. And nobody managed to see this thing except Raj...
  • The "Stephen" photos were found to have been shot off the Big Basin Highway (CA Highway 9: 37.259626325652384, -122.09908095358738), not the actual "Big Basin". This is mildly disingenuous of Stephen. Regardless, the photo was take on a fairly dangerous portion of the highway (a hairpin turn) and really could only be seen if you were a) above the road, looking int the valley of trees or b) you were on foot and shooting from the side of the highway. The latter isn't smart as cars come around that bend quick and the road is very narrow so you risk getting hit. It just smacks of someone planning the location ahead of time and attaching the UFO in post.
  • The only photo locations that haven't been located are the Ty and Deborah photos.
Somewhere along the line, The Iron Skeptic wrote a great essay about the Isaac documents, critiquing the logical fallacies in Isaac's story, one of the main highlights being when he says that the CARET anacronym (Commercial Applications Research for Extraterrestrial Technology) was insulting to anyone who had ever worked high up in the government, stating that "Project Blue Book" wasn't called "Project Maybe We Saw Some UFOs" and that the Manhattan Project wasn't called "The We're Going to Blast You to Smithereens with Atom Power! Project" and says that they assign benign names to TS projects so nobody knows what they're about.

The entire thing sort of disappeared into the ether after that until a few years ago when an artist/producer/voice actor named Margaret Gel posted on her website that she was the one who created the alien language seen on the drones. Claiming she made it from a variation of the Katakana font, she gives the reader a fairly detailed explanation of why and how she made the language and what it all means.

She also claims that she stayed silent for years as "Isaac" (his real name was Chad) stole her artwork and the renders used in the attached photos and threatened everyone with legal action. Gel claims that her lawyers told her that if she didn't have the files (she didn't) and that she simply put her name on it, there was nothing that could be done.

Gel has a few things against her:
  • She doesn't have any real evidence that the files were hers, that she ever created the "alien language" or the "primer" and she hasn't replicated them since.
  • She claims to be an "experiencer" who has been abducted by aliens.
  • She claims to have bouts of amnesia, brought on by early brain trauma when she was a child.
However, there are things she has going for her, too:
  • Using her "experiencer" claims to completely invalidate her claims is a case of Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
  • Gel isn't a UFO skeptic, she's a believer -- and she's willfully burning down the CARET sightings which is something I don't think I've seen within the UFO community.
  • The level of detail, not just in her entries but in my conversations with her:
    • The fact that the final product that was "the primer" was bastardized from her original artwork and wasn't even close to what she had built, the fact that her apartment number (1204) was included in the design repeatedly, as were family member's names (and shows the reader where they all are) and that the "alien tech" seen in the CARET docs weren't correct and were "not assembled correctly" (as well as the revelation that the physical models were built in Canada and the builder's name).
    • The software she used to build her art (the primer) was Adobe Photoshop 4.0 LE back in 1999.
    • My conversations with her included the completely irrelevant revelation that one of the hoaxers had passed away, including the year and cause of death.
    • The reasoning Chad used to steal copyright: putting it on his website (back in 2001) and then updating constantly to keep the rights.
    • Chad/Isaac being one in the same while Raj and Stephen were completely different people. And it shows. Chad and Isaac's writing style is the same: exuberant and excited, witty and wry -- but excluded some details. Raj was humble and talkative and wouldn't shut up and constantly answered questions until he vanished. Stephen was dry and spoke mainly through a colleague. It also fits that Chad/Isaac was the one who released the "big reveal". He was the ringleader of the hoax.
Could someone make up all of the above? Sure.

Would they take the time and effort and put that much detail into their lie? I don't think anybody would do that. I

While I won't comment on her being an "experiencer", I will say that I believe what she has to say here. In addition to all the of the other crap I listed above that makes it sound like a hoax, I think this one is pretty much solved.

Anyhow, NorCalDave...hope this finally helps.
 

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You're probably outside of the edit window. I'll spot you. I would think the OP should have started something like this:

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In 2007 a number of anonymous witnesses claimed to have seen UFOs which they described as "drones" in a variety of locations in California. These witnesses managed to capture photos of these "drones" and sent them to UFO websites and organizations, like MUFON as well as Art Bell/George Noori, the hosts of the popular UFO/paranormal radio show Coast to Coast AM (C2C). In addition, UFO journalist and C2C regular, Linda Moulton Howe received witness reports and photos.

Most of the sourcing for this event is tucked away in various sites on the Wayback Machine. A wikiwand article lists some of these sightings:

External Quote:

On May 10th, 2007, a user by the name of "Chad" sent a series of photos to the Coast to Coast AM website, claiming that he had seen the aircraft in the photos hovering in the area where he and his wife had gone for a walk.

Two days later, on May 12th, 2007, MUFON posted a report from "Deborah McKinley" who claimed to be from San Jose, California. McKinley claimed that she and her husband were on a weekend vacation in Lake Tahoe, Nevada when she saw the craft floating outside while she was getting her sweater from their car.

Eight days later, on May 20th, 2007, a Craigslist user named "Rajinder Satyanarayana" (AKA "Rajman1977") posted a series of six pictures showing a similar craft above what he claimed to be Capitola, California.

On June 6th, 2007, a woman identified as "Jenna L." posted three photos of a similar craft at the UFO Casebook website on behalf of a man named "Stephen" who claimed to have seen the craft in the air while working in Big Basin in California.

Five days later, on June 11th, 2007, a person named "Ty" claimed to have been bicycling in the same area Stephen was the day before his sighting and also saw the same craft Stephen did. He sent 12 photos to UFOlogist, Linda Moulton Howe, who posted the photos on her Earthfiles website. The craft was similar to Stephen's craft.[1]
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident

Some of the drones in the photos supposedly had some sort of writing on them, though at present all I can find are small thumbnails.

At the end of June 2007, someone named "Issac" published an open letter/document on a personal website that appeared to be created just for this release, though is now defunked and was reposted by C2C and on Howe's Earthfiles. In this document, Isaac claimed to be involved in reverse engineering of alien technology, which resulted in the drones that were being sighted:

External Quote:

I'm going by the alias "Isaac" while I release this information. I'm an electrical engineer and computer scientist and used to work in a program called "CARET" that was concerned with research and development based on extra-terrestrial technology. Many key elements of the technology I worked with during my time with CARET are clearly visible in these crafts.
Isaac also claimed that the supposed writing on some of the drones, is in fact like magic:

External Quote:

The language, a term I am still using very loosely, is a system of symbols (which does admittedly very much resemble a written language) along with geometric forms and patterns that fit together to form diagrams that are themselves functional. Once they are drawn, so to speak, on a suitable surface made of a suitable material and in the presence of a certain type of field, they immediately begin performing the desired tasks
https://web.archive.org/web/20150213004952/http://droneteam.com/history/isaac/

MUFON investigator Steve Reichmuth determined the photos to be amateurish CGI hoaxes:

External Quote:

Reichmuth concluded that the photos were computer-generated hoaxes based upon analysis by VFX artists Steve Neil (who had done work for The History Channel) and Marc D'Antonio (who owns a Connecticut VFX business). The latter said that the photos "were not even GOOD fakes", and that the "hoaxer" in question used radiosity in the creation of the photos, and that rendering artifacts were left behind due to the perceived lack of use of settings prior to rendering.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/"CARET"_Drone_Incident

In addition a later group, calling themselves The Drone Team set about investigating these sightings. They found that many of the reported locations of the sightings and resulting photos were misleading or completely wrong:

External Quote:

Much effort was spent looking in Capitola, CA for the photographed pole. All the locations in the photos were later found to be in Campbell, CA which is contrary to what Raj claimed in his writings.

The Chad photo site was discovered along Highway 17 [3], not Bakersfield as implied to LMH.
As well as identifying at least some of the people involved:
External Quote:


The full names of Jenna Liusang and Stephen F. Jain were revealed in a post by OMF admin here, but now defunct. The email looks like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131020092503/http://droneteam.com/mediawiki/index.php/Stephen_details

Years later artist and UFO experiencer Margaret Gel, claimed that she made many of the shapes and the glyphs used:

External Quote:

The photos and documents were all but revealed to be a hoax 16 years later when writer/artist Margaret Gel revealed that she was the creator of the "alien language" seen in the documents and on the drones themselves and that the drones were CG objects created by fellow artists she knew online before her language and the drone designs were stolen by the person who first released the photos and the primer.[50]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_photographs

However, following the footnote (#50) from the Wiki page takes us to Gel's page where she does say the aliens helped her create the glyphs:

External Quote:

I made this. A space alien helped me. Given the circumstances, at this present time, the time of this writing, even if I could present some sort of evidence that proved that I made this, I'm not even sure how you prove that you drew something. Given that the existence of space aliens and UFOs is a 'touchy' subject to the dumbfuck Americans right now, there's no real way to prove the space alien portion of what I've said, anyways.

But the thing is this.

I never said that all the names in the thing were of human beings. In fact, only about four of them are. The rest are space alien names: the very same people who adopted me when I lived on the Ship.
https://www.icze4r.org/apocalypse/isaac.caret.hoax.html

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@LanaiGuy Now we're all on the same page. We have a quick account of the Dragonfly/CARET/drone hoax and now we have the context for what you're talking about in the OP
If I'm not mistaken, she later says they were family member names in her other blog, but I could be mistaken. I'm sorta fried from putting together what you wanted. :)
 
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