UAP Files: “UFOs: Wikipedia, AI, and the Rise of Fake Experts” video and Substack Article

Indeed.

It may also be worth pointing out that there are cases like the Turkish UFO videos from Kumburgaz or more recently the Calvine photo where, while members here do not reach a consensus on what is actually in the picture, we show one or more ways the picture/video could have come into existence without having to assume ET or other extraordinary causes. That is not a "full debunk," as no definitive solution has been established in those cases. But if, for example, it can be shown that a given hypothetical video show what is consistent with a satellite flare or a known make and model of LED kite flown at night, and while the evidence is insufficient to prove which of those it might actually be, and nothing in the video suggests thatthese solutions CANNOT be correct, then the video is not useful as proof of ETs, demons, time travelers or anything of that sort as a simpler explanation also covers the data available.

Or so I see it.
I have no issue with adding data to a case, especially one that's difficult to resolve. You raise the Calvine case. I actually went to Scotland to interview Andrew Robinson from Sheffield University (specialist in photography and vindicated the test on the original photo).

He's a prime example of what I'm talking about. I could add a Community Note linking to his research and stating it has been confirmed to be a real photograph with a real object in. Would that be ok?
 
I surmise the focus here is the title of the Denbigh thread -- "The Denbigh Lights UFO Analysis [Likely sparking powerlines]" -- with the "Likely" baked in.

But it comes across as "*you guys* shouldn't discuss this topic because other people take your discussions too seriously."
That's your incorrect interpretation. I've made it quite clear time and time again that it's not about my opinion or the opinion of "you guys". It's applying that opinion as objective fact on a platform that is (or is at least becoming) the research hub for science and academia and layman folks to find answers on. And they're looking for facts not opinions.

I'm in regular contact with former a particular former CIA theoretical physicist and also on his mailing list where he shares his theories and equations (Mick is also in his mailing list). He uses Grok obsessively to work them out. Mick can attest to this. It's becoming a powerful tool and an over-reliance is being built on it to "speed up" research by theoretical physicists like him, but also reporters and everything in between. They're looking for facts but getting opinions. Not looking for opinions with some data they then have to go and check is accurate first, because that doesn't really speed up their process.

Take "misidentifications" for example. I'm a researcher for a news segment. I'm looking at doing a report for the 9 o'clock news. Grok: "how many cases in the news in the last 6 months have been drones misidentified and were actually just aircraft" news segment air: "All cases of misidentified drones over military bases have been misidentified aircraft or none drone/conventional objects". The reporter isn't going to dig in to the nuance of every case. Grok will just pool from news reports with citations for credibility. Citations from Metabunk which are speculation on cases of faint lights in the sky with vague correlations to a few misidentified cases applied to them more broadly.

Agnes (a care worker) from number 10 hears about drones over her RAF base in the news and shares image on TikTok. Metabunk (Mick) uses ADSB to track that case to a misidentified aircraft.

Meanwhile "DadRants" (a real person interviewed) is a pilot, aviation geek and lives next to said RAF base and spends his time as a plane spotter filming and photographing aircraft (this is a true story). He sees extrodinary objects during a wave that he's never seen before, doing extrodinary things. He films them. Shares the footage and his testimony.

Mick debunks Agnes's case and now there's a Community Note added to this wave of sightings.

The LLN says these are all misidentified aircraft. Reporter reports these are all misidentifications. New truth, tada.
 
Again your problem is with X, CN and Grok, go post on Elon Musks open forum.
Metabunk forum members have added Metabunk forum opinion on X, CNs. My problem is with both.

But I tried that direct route with Jimmy Wales with the Wikipedia drama. Wales just ignores any critique. I didn't start this thread, but it was about my video. I can go if you'd prefer?
 
Again your problem is with X, CN and Grok, go post on Elon Musks open forum.

To be fair to @UAPF it was @Montauk who started this thread and @UAPF should be able to clarify or defend his position when we're talking about him. But like you said his gripe seems to be with the X CN using us as a source, so not a gripe with us directly. That is a problem with the internet overall - who regulates the 'facts' and the 'truth'...?
 
I could add a Community Note linking to his research and stating it has been confirmed to be a real photograph with a real object in. Would that be ok?
does anyone think it isn't a real photograph with a real object?

Aside, do you lecture the ufo community for it's role in people not believing all these millions of extraterrestrial claims? Do you believe there are really THIS MANY et ufos flying around the earth? While i do agree CN should only be for clearly identified debunks -unless otherwise labeled as opinions or alternative explanations- you surely must know the biggest problem with the ET UFO claims are that there are way too many of them. If the UFO community presented as more serious than the public would take y'all more seriously and CNs wouldnt even matter. just saying.
 
To be fair to @UAPF it was @Montauk who started this thread and @UAPF should be able to clarify or defend his position when we're talking about him. But like you said his gripe seems to be with the X CN using us as a source, so not a gripe with us directly. That is a problem with the internet overall - who regulates the 'facts' and the 'truth'...?

@flarkey has the right of it. In making information approximately free and allowing anyone with access to create content, the Web has steadily eroded the quality of the total corpus of published material a person can access.

Wikipedia is trusted in part because of its open processes (for those who recognize and care about such things) but also because of its high quality presentation and the fact that it is older than many of its regular users. That's a good stand-in for the truth value of the Internet as a whole. To single out Wikipedia and Metabunk as somehow more at fault for this state of affairs is to miss the nature of the problem.

The Web isn't a laboratory where carefully collected data allows people with specialized expertise to draw appropriate conclusions with caveats and error bars. It's a global court room where a slick presentation and sophist rhetoric are more than enough to move public opinion. Wikipedia is just a place where you can actually see the problem in motion. The fact of the matter is this is what's happening everywhere. Community Notes is probably a band-aid on a much larger problem. At best it will slow the bleeding.

Complaining about the people who are trying to demonstrate the distinction between weighing empirical evidence vice agreeing with an interesting story related in well written prose is pointless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

Internet no one knows you're a dog.jpg
 
does anyone think it isn't a real photograph with a real object?
I think it is a real photograph. Whether I think it is of a real object would depend on definition of "a real object." If things like Christmas ornaments, paper cut out shapes on glass, and the like are Real Objects, then I'd agree. If the implication is that it is a real giant flying trapezoid in the sky interacting with a real military jet, then no, I don't think is is that and I certainly do not think that has been established.

But wrenching myself back on topic (!)...

But it's not about Metabunk not being useful. It's that Wikipedia argument. Who gets to decide who has the best opinion?
On Wikipedia? The Wikipedia rules and whoever created them ought to prevail. If they are not being followed there, take it up with them, MB is not in charge of WP. If the rules are being followed but you don't like them I guess either take it uo with them or find/start a site with rules you like?

At present is suspect it doesn't fuss you all that much if Metabunk is cited in objective truth in the eyes of GPT and Grok via X Community Notes.
It does not trouble me if MB or you or anybody else is cited. That's just speaking for myself, I don't speak for anybody else. I am not a fan of AI, as it is being "done" now, my concerns are not revolving around who specifically gets scraped, but might include transparency about how that is determined...


But I also suspect that if those citations changed to UAP Files and my own analysis of cases (my opinion based on evidence) then your view may shift. "Jimmy debunked the power line theory at this link to Substack".
No, my view would be that I would continue to disagree with your conclusions where they seem to me to be wrong. As I continue to disagree with folks here who put forward ideas that seem to me to be wrong. Whoever scraped or cited or whatever-else them.

I suspect that you may be attributing to me a point of view that is not mine?
 
Last edited:
Metabunk forum members have added Metabunk forum opinion on X, CNs. My problem is with both.

But I tried that direct route with Jimmy Wales with the Wikipedia drama. Wales just ignores any critique. I didn't start this thread, but it was about my video. I can go if you'd prefer?
What exactly are you suggesting Metabunk do? We are an open forum; there's going to be a diversity of opinions. Some posts will be higher quality than others. Some posters are more expert than others. Some posts deserve being used as references, some do not.

1763682122665.png

You cited this one example (above) in your Substack. I don't see the problem with it, as it links to an accurate analysis by experts in the topic (mostly @flarkey, one of the world's leading experts in gelocating planes and identifying Starlink flares.

Why exactly is that controversial? People use far less authoritative sources as CN references. It's STILL just a proposed note, not shown on X. And yes, I voted it as helpful because it is helpful.

2025-11-20_15-51-54.jpg



Ultimately, it's a "can't please everyone" issue that will always be in contention.
 
What exactly are you suggesting Metabunk do? We are an open forum; there's going to be a diversity of opinions. Some posts will be higher quality than others. Some posters are more expert than others. Some posts deserve being used as references, some do not.

View attachment 86298

You cited this one example (above) in your Substack. I don't see the problem with it, as it links to an accurate analysis by experts in the topic (mostly @flarkey, one of the world's leading experts in gelocating planes and identifying Starlink flares.
This is the problem I'm raising: opinions are not objective truth. Adding a CN is saying, "hay guys, this is the truth about this case, a fact check has been added, move along".

But you're not a group of like minded people just talking in a forum anymore and sharing opinions and interpretation of data, you're actively going out and adding that opinion (or interpretation) to the public square as a fact. You're, or some of your forum senior leadership are, creating multiple accounts just to tell people who blocked them that they're wrong about something and linking to Metabunk threads. Contacting podcast guests (experiencers and witnesses) and telling them they've misidentified something and that their belief is therefore wrong because there was a Starlink in that direction at that time. That is quite different from having good opinions and if people like them they can share them around. That's actively correcting public understanding of an event with partial data and asserting it as a fact. Even if they didn't ask for your opinion.

Flarkey didn't have distance/elevation/altitude data in the case you mentioned. If he said, "it's probably this", then that's fine. But that's not what CN's are for. They are fact checking (fact being the important word). It's not a fact without that piece of data. Yes it follows a path, but that's still missing the full data picture to confirm as a fact. It's probably that, sure. What did the witness experience and does that match? I just interviewed a doctor who observed a bright orb fly down from the sky, get so close to him it was the size of his first if you put your arm out in front of you, had a physical impact on him, then flew off in a particular direction at incredible speed. This is the space I work in. The man is a brain expert, literally. You and Flarkey are working with Starlink geolocating that there was a Starlink, or the ISS was there and then left in that direction, too. So: "It was Starlink, the rest you're probably just confused for tired or something".

If the government come out and officially say there are aliens flying around and able to cloak, but we cant give you any data because of weaponry superiority/natsec etc., then would you still continue on the way you are? Or would your resolutions have to change (considering the government provided no data to you, just the disclosure)?

No one has a problem with opinions and I think it's probably more difficult for you to understand the perspective of a witness, or the SCU example, because I doubt the SCU went to the trouble of adding CN's on your X posts. Or that MarkV added any of his reasoned opinions on any of your posts.

If they had, let's say they started springing up on your posts often enough for you to notice, you may feel differently. Because you may feel they have insufficient data to make that judgement, or you have interpreted that data differently. But they'd be very little you could do. Because most of the UFO folks are focussed on the nuances of the UFO subject (disclosure, whistleblowers, consciousness, CE5, witness testimony, news and so forth) where as you look to pick cases apart and find a conventional explanation. Your Denbigh and Rugeley UFO cases are prime examples. Flarkey and I could go around in circles for years on both cases. I don't know who Flarkey is, or if he is the expert in that niche. I'd like to think my friend Ezra Kelderman, the systems engineer from Harvard is probably the leading expert in that, seeing's as he does that every day, with the best tech money can buy and in large volumes many many many terabytes of data to assess and discount as conventional in the pursuit of the anomalous. But then I know his name, he's credentialed and has a public profile that we can trust. Not an anonymous person with an avatar for their face. I could get on board with being directed to a credentialed expert who is a proven subject matter expert.

But here's the thing about Ezra, despite the many terabytes of imagery he's collected, it needs to be reviewed by scientists first, then peer-reviewed before he'll put it out for public consumption with high confidence on his conclusions. That's what I want from my experts and fact checkers, everything else is opinions on what looks in the right place/path on ADSB, or was a Starlink there at the right time with reflective potential etc. As someone who has interviewed a few pilots now and have been told by quite a few, that military hide drones and aircraft directly under their own aircraft, I know there is stuff out there that cannot be rationalised away, or found on public access software. But you'd put a CN saying you'd identified that weird military aircraft hiding under my friends airliner as...my friends airliner.

And that's just the cheeky military stuff without even going in to UAPs/UFOs.

Why exactly is that controversial? People use far less authoritative sources as CN references. It's STILL just a proposed note, not shown on X. And yes, I voted it as helpful because it is helpful.

View attachment 86300


Ultimately, it's a "can't please everyone" issue that will always be in contention.
 
I just interviewed a doctor who observed a bright orb fly down from the sky, get so close to him it was the size of his first if you put your arm out in front of you, had a physical impact on him, then flew off in a particular direction at incredible speed. This is the space I work in. The man is a brain expert, literally. You and Flarkey are working with Starlink geolocating that there was a Starlink, or the ISS was there and then left in that direction, too.
You were working with a story told by a witness, and apparently unseen by anyone else. Flarkey was working with verifiable facts, things that any other competent researcher can look up. I'm not sure what your point was, but I don't believe you've made it effectively.

External Quote:
If the government come out and officially say there are aliens flying around and able to cloak, but we cant give you any data because of weaponry superiority/natsec etc., then would you still continue on the way you are?
If the government came out and said they have no evidence of extraterrestrial craft flying around our airspace, would you believe them and give up your search? Oh, wait... I believe they've already done that.
 
Last edited:
Flarkey didn't have distance/elevation/altitude data in the case you mentioned. If he said, "it's probably this", then that's fine. But that's not what CN's are for. They are fact checking (fact being the important word). It's not a fact without that piece of data. Yes it follows a path, but that's still missing the full data picture to confirm as a fact.
We had the exact 3D positions of both the plane and the satellites. They match the video. What more is there?

Yes it follows a path, but that's still missing the full data picture to confirm as a fact. It's probably that, sure. What did the witness experience and does that match?
Well, there's the rub. You think, in the face of all evidence, that eyewitness accounts somehow beat cold, hard data.

Case after case has proven that to be false.

Sure, maybe there's some case where the eyewitnesses got it right, but the video got it wrong. But has that ever happened?

Ezra, if he looks at Starlink cases, probably just used Sitrec to check them. Same as us. You don't need a degree to use it.

@flarkey isn't really that anonymous. Ask him about his credentials.
 
What exactly are you suggesting Metabunk do?


This is the problem I'm raising: opinions are not objective truth. Adding a CN is saying, "hay guys, this is the truth about this case, a fact check has been added, move along"....
Maybe it is just because I am just about falling down tired (this has been a.... busy... and difficult... week here in Charlotte!)

But I am not seeing where you answered Mick's question in that long response.

If you don't mind, could you "nutshell" just that point? I promise, when I am less groggy, I'll be back to read your long answer and see if I do better with it!

Keep looking up, y'all!
 
I have no issue with adding data to a case, especially one that's difficult to resolve. You raise the Calvine case. I actually went to Scotland to interview Andrew Robinson from Sheffield University (specialist in photography and vindicated the test on the original photo).

He's a prime example of what I'm talking about. I could add a Community Note linking to his research and stating it has been confirmed to be a real photograph with a real object in. Would that be ok?

I don't think anyone here, no matter what their take on it, disputes that the Calvine photo is of a 'real object'. But it can be a 'real object' and still be a hoax.

It's like when news outlets proclaim ( as they have done ) that 'Pentagon Confirms UFOs Are Real '. To the average believer, this is confirmation that aliens are visiting Earth. But to the skeptic....well of course 'UFOs' are real. People do see unidentified objects in the sky. A bright light in the sky is a 'UFO'...until it is pointed out that actually its the planet Venus.

Yes, UFOs are most definitely real. Its just that 99.999% of the time the process of turning them into 'FOs' eliminates aliens from Beta Reticuli.
 
@flarkey isn't really that anonymous. Ask him about his credentials.

Well the other thing is Flarkey is so good at communicating this stuff because he walks me through every step that he takes. I am not a native English speaker and I can still follow the arguments he makes because it's shown mostly through diagram and mathematics.

Relying on credentials makes sense when the argument itself is shrouded in mystery or there is hidden information. But Flarkey is totally transparent about both processes and conclusions. Credentials are nice but unnecessary when you can demonstrate expertise within the argument you're making.
 
Yes, UFOs are most definitely real. Its just that 99.999% of the time the process of turning them into 'FOs' eliminates aliens from Beta Reticuli
And it is important to note, 0% of the time is it proven they are aliens. The "aliens are flying around the Earth in UFOs" meme dates back to at least 1947 (it could be argued that it is older than that, for example during the Phantom Airship flap of 1896/97 there was a claim of a crashed airship and a dead pilot who was "not an inhabitant of this world." But that claim didn't really have the impact in popular culture that Kenneth Arnold's 1947 sighting did.)

So that's AT LEAST 78 years of people looking for alien UFOs, including government investigations, private "ARIGs" (Amateur Research and Investigation Groups, thanks Sharon Hill for coining the term), scientists (eg Dr. Hynek) and others... the score remains:

Positively identified as something mundane or not sufficient evidence to identify -- 100%
Positively Identified as aliens, time travelers, demons or interdimensional beings -- 0%


Source for the Phantom Airships and the aurora, TX, case:
External Quote:

The mystery airship or phantom airship was a phenomenon that thousands of people across the United States claimed to have observed from late 1896 through mid 1897. Typical airship reports involved nighttime sightings of unidentified flying lights, but more detailed accounts reported actual airborne craft similar to an airship or dirigible.[1] Mystery airship reports are seen as a cultural predecessor to modern claims of extraterrestrial-piloted UFO's or flying saucers.[2]

Reports of the alleged airship crewmen and pilots usually described them as humanoid, although sometimes the crew claimed to be from Mars.[3] It was widely believed at the time that the mystery airships were the product of some inventor or genius who was not ready to make knowledge of his creation public.
External Quote:
An account from Aurora, Texas,[42] related in the Dallas Morning News on April 19, 1897, reported that a couple of days before, an airship had smashed into a windmill belonging to a Judge Proctor, then crashed. The occupant was dead and mangled, but the story reported that the presumed pilot was clearly "not an inhabitant of this world."[43] Strange "hieroglyphic" figures were seen on the wreckage, which resembled "a mixture of aluminum and silver ... it must have weighed several tons."[43] The story ended by noting that the pilot was given a "Christian burial" in the town cemetery. The story attracted no particular attention at the time, and no other newspapers in the area reported any such funeral.[44] The rediscovery of the story by UFO enthusiasts in the 1960s led to a short burst of investigative activity, but by the early 1970s almost all authorities considered the story a probable hoax.[45] In 1973, aviation reporter Bill Case of the Dallas Times-Herald discovered a rough-hewn rock that he contended was the stone marker used in the burial, and which bore scratches that he contended represented the airship.[46] A local treasure hunter claimed that his metal detector gave strange readings in the area, which Case claimed indicated that the pilot had been buried in some sort of metal uniform.[47] However, A few months later, an investigator from the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) reported that the headstone – and whatever metallic material might have lain beneath it – was gone.
Not all Phantom Airship pilots were UFO aliens, apparently. There were a number of reports of having conversed with the crew/passengers, who often often said they were inventors of a miraculous airship that they would soon reveal to the public. Or,

External Quote:
In one account from Texas, three men reported an encounter with an airship and with "five peculiarly dressed men" who asserted that they were descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, and had learned English from the 1553 North Pole expedition led by Hugh Willoughby.
Source for external content above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship
 
Maybe it is just because I am just about falling down tired (this has been a.... busy... and difficult... week here in Charlotte!)

But I am not seeing where you answered Mick's question in that long response.

If you don't mind, could you "nutshell" just that point? I promise, when I am less groggy, I'll be back to read your long answer and see if I do better with it!

Keep looking up, y'all!
Opinions aren't facts. Share opinions, great. Opinions can be wrong (including eye witnesses). Even years later. We are in an unprecedented new age of AI and research. Automation and robots. People are interpreting fact checking as final, the end, objective, truth truth. Opinions from a faction who don't believe in something and are energised to find conventional explanations will find them. Often withholding data that detracts from their resolution. Applying that as a fact is problematic.

Probably less so when it comes from here, but it'll be more so if it comes from my 'lot' and at that point I think you may end up coming over to my way of thinking - "who made them an expert?" etc.
 
I don't think anyone here, no matter what their take on it, disputes that the Calvine photo is of a 'real object'. But it can be a 'real object' and still be a hoax.

It's like when news outlets proclaim ( as they have done ) that 'Pentagon Confirms UFOs Are Real '. To the average believer, this is confirmation that aliens are visiting Earth. But to the skeptic....well of course 'UFOs' are real. People do see unidentified objects in the sky. A bright light in the sky is a 'UFO'...until it is pointed out that actually its the planet Venus.

Yes, UFOs are most definitely real. Its just that 99.999% of the time the process of turning them into 'FOs' eliminates aliens from Beta Reticuli.
What amazing possibilities though, if it was a true non-human visitor? Imagine what that could do for our civilisation. I don't want to get too philosophical here, but what if by saying it's Venus (despite not having elevation/altitude data) you prevent science and academia exploring the hypothetical case? Clean energy, end to world poverty, advanced medical knowledge to solve all disease. Honestly, who knows?

It's like fact checking in politics. The fact checker can be politically biased and interpret the data in a way that's beneficial to their favourite party. Are you saying that doesn't/can't happen? The fact checkers on Wikipedia turned Malcolm Malmgren from a legendary presidential advisor who helped prevent nuclear war...in to a shady bloke who helped the Japanese kill whales for cash. So either the fact checkers before were wrong'uns or the new fact checkers are wrong'uns. Same problem.
 
What amazing possibilities though, if it was a true non-human visitor? Imagine what that could do for our civilisation. I don't want to get too philosophical here, but what if by saying it's Venus (despite not having elevation/altitude data) you prevent science and academia exploring the hypothetical case? Clean energy, end to world poverty, advanced medical knowledge to solve all disease. Honestly, who knows?

It's like fact checking in politics. The fact checker can be politically biased and interpret the data in a way that's beneficial to their favourite party. Are you saying that doesn't/can't happen? The fact checkers on Wikipedia turned Malcolm Malmgren from a legendary presidential advisor who helped prevent nuclear war...in to a shady bloke who helped the Japanese kill whales for cash. So either the fact checkers before were wrong'uns or the new fact checkers are wrong'uns. Same problem.
A big part of trying to prove the biggest thing in human history is trying to weed out the things that are definitely not aliens. A lot of the people on here and other more skeptical people online are the quality control that the UFO community seems to be unable or unwilling to do.
 
People are interpreting fact checking as final, the end, objective, truth truth.

you must not be American. :) I don't think too many people trust the fact checkers all that much. yea many trust the fact checkers if the fact checkers say what they want to hear, but i think even they know that if they don't fact check the fact check it's just wishful thinking. I doubt most of the people who would "follow you" believe any CNs on your twitter posts, so why are you so worried about it?

Article:
Meta is abandoning the use of independent fact checkers on Facebook and Instagram, replacing them with X-style "community notes" where commenting on the accuracy of posts is left to users.

In a video posted alongside a blog post by the company on Tuesday, chief executive Mark Zuckerberg said third-party moderators were "too politically biased" and it was "time to get back to our roots around free expression".



I think if you don't want to be fact checked on Twitter, then don't post things that can be fact checked on twitter.
 
What amazing possibilities though, if it was a true non-human visitor? Imagine what that could do for our civilisation.
You seem to be looking for salvation, not first contact.
The fact checkers on Wikipedia turned Malcolm Malmgren from a legendary presidential advisor who helped prevent nuclear war...in to a shady bloke who helped the Japanese kill whales for cash.
This is such a bad paraphrase. The extent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Malmgren referencing whales is "He also represented the Japan Whaling Association". The person who turned Malmgren into a "legendary presidential advisor" was Malmgren himself, and Douglas Dean Johnson turned him back—not wikipedia.

Read https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ha...-versus-his-documented-prosaic-history.14234/ , and https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ne...e-pippa-and-harald-malmgren.13611/post-321429 for Malmgren disclaiming he had first-hand UFO knowledge.
 
What amazing possibilities though, if it was a true non-human visitor?
Absolutely agree.
But that requires testable evidence that an extraterrestrial had actually visited.
It seems, to some of us here, that the clearer a specific claim is that an extraterrestrial had been encountered, the less likely it is to be accurate.
Many people claim to have met aliens, their accounts haven't advanced our understanding of the universe one jot. Not one message, that can be tested, that tells us something we don't already know. Nothing to advance medical science, or which might help people facing real adversity.
Not one attempt by said UFOnauts to prove that they exist to humanity as a whole.

Belief in UFOs as alien spacecraft, or that we are already being visited by aliens, is unlikely to make a real visit more likely.
 
The fact checkers on Wikipedia turned Malcolm Malmgren from a legendary presidential advisor who helped prevent nuclear war...in to a shady bloke who helped the Japanese kill whales for cash. So either the fact checkers before were wrong'uns or the new fact checkers are wrong'uns.
False.
Malmgren's Cuban Crisis claims never made it onto his wikipedia page without being quickly reverted. There are no "fact checkers before" that approved these claims. This is obvious from an examination of his article's talk page, and an examination of the article's revision history bears that out.

I hate that you use unsourced false information in an argument.
 
It's like fact checking in politics. The fact checker can be politically biased and interpret the data in a way that's beneficial to their favourite party. Are you saying that doesn't/can't happen?

But that's just it. My 'bias' is actually towards believing. I used to be a believer. But I don't believe any more...because again and again the 'best ever' cases have been resoundingly debunked. There comes a point where there is simply nothing left to prop up the house of cards. There's a point where one can no longer retort with ' but what about case XYZ ?'...because even case XYZ has been debunked.

It's not simply that there is very little evidence for the veracity of alien visitations. There is none !
 
Opinions aren't facts. Share opinions, great. Opinions can be wrong (including eye witnesses). Even years later. We are in an unprecedented new age of AI and research. Automation and robots. People are interpreting fact checking as final, the end, objective, truth truth. Opinions from a faction who don't believe in something and are energised to find conventional explanations will find them. Often withholding data that detracts from their resolution. Applying that as a fact is problematic.

Probably less so when it comes from here, but it'll be more so if it comes from my 'lot' and at that point I think you may end up coming over to my way of thinking - "who made them an expert?" etc.
I feel like this still doesn't answer the question. In concrete terms, what should metabunk and its members do differently? Are you just asking for posts here to be phrased in a less confident manner??
 
Opinions from a faction who don't believe in something and are energised to find conventional explanations will find them.
And opinions from a faction with a presupposition of esoteric, otherworldly conclusions will find THEM. A good many of the claims of UFOs have been conclusively proved to be mundane, while none of them - NONE - have shown any evidence at all of being interstellar objects. It makes sense to look for known objects first in any investigation.

Add to that the principle of Okham's razor, and I think you'll find that everyday objects and phenomena have an enormous edge over woo.
 
Opinions from a faction who don't believe in something and are energised to find conventional explanations will find them.
Only if the data is ambiguous to start with.
Which it often even isn't, the Starlink flares are really only in a small area of the sky, and if that matches, that's a high-confidence result.

Honestly, if you want to challenge us, bring a better "explanation" than "light in the sky -> don't know what it is -> must be NIH", which doesn't actually explain anything. It's a fantasy people make up because they don't have an explanation. "Magic" or "ghosts" would work equally well.
Often withholding data that detracts from their resolution.
Dude.
That's an accusation you really need to support.
Given that UFOlogists are typically withholding, you've done it intentionally, and I can't count anymore the number of videos/photos without date/time/location, or even false ones.

I don't remember a single instance when Metabunk has withheld data. How would that even work on a public forum?
 
Last edited:
what if by saying it's Venus (despite not having elevation/altitude data) you prevent science and academia exploring the hypothetical case?
What's the mechanism for that? How does stating a perceived fact that can be independently checked - and potentially falsified, yes, that's part of what makes good science - by looking at any number of freely accessible resources *prevent* the scientific community from doing anything? Your stance here is entirely hyperbolic.
 
Back
Top