I believe that's browser specific. My (Chrome) spell-check recognizes it just fine, Firefox does not.
Isis/Osiris consipracy, sexual and occult symbology in art, crucifixion scenes
- Thread starter Mick West
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I believe that's browser specific. My (Chrome) spell-check recognizes it just fine, Firefox does not.
Cairenn
Senior Member
We would hate that, but what are they leaving behind for that? A small house with a smokey wood or dung fire for heating and cooking?, drawing and hauling water from a well or a river? long hours of backbreaking labor in the sun? Worrying if your crop will make? Instead you can have a bed in heated dormitory. access to a warm shower, water that you didn't have to haul, a sit down job. Maybe that Chinese factory job doesn't look quite so bad.
The Chinese have a different culture and mind set than we do. I remember a geology field trip, where we using our private cars, a young Chinese man carpooled with me. We were talking about things and he mentioned that he was Roman Catholic, however, he also talked about going to the Buddist temple to offer incense for his grandmother, and some where in the conversation, he mentioned that you never urinate on a tree, because you might offend the tree spirit. He was Catholic, Buddhist and animistic all at the same time. Totally different from what any normal westerner thinks, here you Catholic or Baptist or Mormon or Jewish, most folks will not allow you to be a mix of those.
You are still placing YOUR philosophy onto others and that is NOT right.
In ancient Rome, some freeman would SELL their selves into slavery. For them it was an improvement over the life they had. A smart slave could then get access to education, and often after years of service, they would be freed and they could then become citizens. Many were valued and trusted. Now that Flies in the face of our impression of slavery.
Look at the undocumented workers that risk their lives to come to the US to do low paying, menial jobs that Americans WON'T do.
Stop seeing the world through ONLY your eyes and experiences, try looking at it through others.
The Chinese have a different culture and mind set than we do. I remember a geology field trip, where we using our private cars, a young Chinese man carpooled with me. We were talking about things and he mentioned that he was Roman Catholic, however, he also talked about going to the Buddist temple to offer incense for his grandmother, and some where in the conversation, he mentioned that you never urinate on a tree, because you might offend the tree spirit. He was Catholic, Buddhist and animistic all at the same time. Totally different from what any normal westerner thinks, here you Catholic or Baptist or Mormon or Jewish, most folks will not allow you to be a mix of those.
You are still placing YOUR philosophy onto others and that is NOT right.
In ancient Rome, some freeman would SELL their selves into slavery. For them it was an improvement over the life they had. A smart slave could then get access to education, and often after years of service, they would be freed and they could then become citizens. Many were valued and trusted. Now that Flies in the face of our impression of slavery.
Look at the undocumented workers that risk their lives to come to the US to do low paying, menial jobs that Americans WON'T do.
Stop seeing the world through ONLY your eyes and experiences, try looking at it through others.
Grieves
Senior Member
See, I think that's what you're failing to do. I present you with footage of children in gargantuan sweatshops that are entirely commonplace there and a factory floor of a scale to put Limbo to shame, and you suggest I misjudge the situation based on the anecdotes of a well-off youth you spoke with on a field-trip, and how diverse his belief system was.
.....How about a livable, modern home and a decent paying job with active food-support from one's direct community? Maybe even just a self-sustaining cabin in a livable environment not flanked by factories and dump-heaps of a scale to boggle the mind? It's not like these things aren't, with work, will and a bit of luck/pre-determining factors, readily available to a majority of people in the west, though that's under increasing jeopardy for no good reason at all. Are you seriously going to tell me that great masses of young impoverished people, often children, paid pittances to slap on monocolored shirts and march ant-like about labor-mills for brutally long shifts while being housed in what look like industrial barns and according to many of them feel the same, is an issue of cultural choice...? That if offered a North-American lifestyle they wouldn't clutch to it in blessed relief?
My philosophy is that in the knowledge every person on the planet could be living in comfort right this moment, every instance a person is treated like less than one is an injustice. Crushing poverty, being entirely unnecessary in the modern world, is therefor abhorrent, as are those who exploit it, or worse maintain it to be exploited. I have no illusions about this sentiment winning out over the exceedingly well-armed minority opposing it, but its how I feel... and if it's wrong, you can keep your right.
I guess slavery wasn't so bad after all...? What are you trying to say here?
Cairenn
Senior Member
Would you PLEASE stop changing what I said.
I was pointing out that OUR concept of slavery and the concept of slavery in ancient times ARE NOT the same thing.
If you had a better grasp of our own industrial history, you would see close parallels in the mill towns of the the 1800s and the industrial towns of China. Already many of those factories are having to offer more wages and better conditions. It is a stepping stone to an improved lifestyle.
By the way, that 'well off youth' was a REFUGE, his family had fled the mainland, then to Honk Kong, then to Taiwan, then to the US. They left China with NOTHING but the clothes on their backs.
It seems that you are too isolated and locked into your belief system to try to look at things from another way.
Do you have evidence of the large scale use of children in the Chinese factories? Please let us know.
I was pointing out that OUR concept of slavery and the concept of slavery in ancient times ARE NOT the same thing.
If you had a better grasp of our own industrial history, you would see close parallels in the mill towns of the the 1800s and the industrial towns of China. Already many of those factories are having to offer more wages and better conditions. It is a stepping stone to an improved lifestyle.
By the way, that 'well off youth' was a REFUGE, his family had fled the mainland, then to Honk Kong, then to Taiwan, then to the US. They left China with NOTHING but the clothes on their backs.
It seems that you are too isolated and locked into your belief system to try to look at things from another way.
Do you have evidence of the large scale use of children in the Chinese factories? Please let us know.
Jazzy
Closed Account
Those are entirely familiar environments to me. I have worked in these and in many other environments. That is what MASS PRODUCTION has always meant. It will remain that way until dextrous robots replace people.
There's not much point railing against it. My heart bleeds for you. Move on.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member
"In ancient Rome, some freeman would SELL their selves into slavery. For them it was an improvement over the life they had. A smart slave could then get access to education, and often after years of service, they would be freed and they could then become citizens. Many were valued and trusted."
You don't have to go all the way to ancient Rome for that particular practice - this was one of the ways countless thousands of Irish people arrived to the American south to work the plantations.
You don't have to go all the way to ancient Rome for that particular practice - this was one of the ways countless thousands of Irish people arrived to the American south to work the plantations.
There may well have been instances where slavery was better than freedom. But if that's the options you've got, then you are not living a great society. Stepping stone or no. People are often forced to chose one evil over another.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member
The Irish were having a hard time under the English occupation, what with the famine and all, so the American solution seemed quite appealing.
Yes, one evil over another.
The problem here is that by saying saying things like "slavery or indentured servitude was not as bad as...." it makes it sound like you are defending laissez-faire capitalism. Gets people all riled up.
Grieves
Senior Member
I didn't. I expressed my incredulity at what was said, and asked if you could explain your meaning. Big difference.
I thought you were saying you met this guy in China on a field-trip. Any English speaking Chinese person riding in a private car with American tourists would likely be rather well off compared to, say, the middle-child of an impoverished family who spends his days/nights assembling the switch-component of an electric iron over and over and over again. If that's true though, my question is this:
Why are you using someone who fled his country as an example of why the labor practices of that country are acceptable/a positive cultural force?
I get that this is a personal attack of sorts, but I'm proud to admit I'm locked into the belief that people deserve to be treated like people, no matter where they are... and have no interest whatsoever in seeing the world from the perspective of those who feel otherwise.
http://www.amnesty.org.nz/files/SELECT-COMMITTEE-SUBMISSION-WITH-AMENDMENTS-MAY-08.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jan/25/apple-child-labour-supply
http://www.clb.org.hk/en/content/chinas-economy-grows-so-does-chinas-child-labour-problem
Enough? There's a lot more, including footage, but it seems you're not interested in that sort of thing.
I'm not unfamiliar with mass industrial settings, living in a major steel-town and with several family members having worked/still working the mills. But being familiar with settings similar to the one featured above, even given they hold no novelty for you, can you agree you wouldn't want to spend the rest of your forseeable life working at one, eating at one, and sleeping at one for pennies? Can you agree it's at least unfortunate people live that way, especially given that what they often produce are things that meet entirely manufactured needs?
I'm cynical and practical enough to understand I can't change it, and that expressing my opinion on the matter here has only a slightly greater impact than a fart in the wind. None the less I believe what I believe, and I'm not going to convince myself I feel otherwise just because it's easier.
You don't have to go all the way back to the 'Whole of Europe' potato famine either.
It is estimated there are 27 million people currently working their way forward out of slavery. Human trafficking is VERY BIG BUSINESS.
https://www.freetheslaves.net/SSLPage.aspx?pid=301
External Quote:
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member
I didn't say that. I was merely pointing out that it was still going on in Western society until fairly recently.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member
Tell me all about the Whole of Europe potato famine. As far as I know, the Highlands in Scotland endured something similar which caused under 2 million people to leave Scotland in a 12 year period. There was also a famine in Portugal that led to a revolt, but I'm not sure potatoes were at the root of it. So, I'm interested to hear about this Whole of Europe potato famine. Especially as I'd not mentioned the Irish famine in the post you were quoting.
SR1419
Senior Member.
I understand your point.
...and thats actually an interesting philosophical question.
Are you oppressed if you do not feel oppressed? perhaps a new thread...
Oppressed is defined as: unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power.
Is hiring laborers to build the pyramids cruel and unusual exercise of authority or power?
Just because the work was hard and life was short- does that mean they were oppressed?
It seems "oppression" might be in the eye of the "oppressed".
*Nonetheless, the pyramids were architectural and mathematical marvels that stimulated the Greeks, Romans and humanity ever since. But they represent much more than that. The organization, coordination and administration involved in the building pyramids created the archetypes for which the large-scale, centrally directed, coherent political structures of civilization emerged. A strong government with an efficient civil service...an ideal that has been emulated throughout history.
Grieves
Senior Member
I don't think it 'created' these archetypes, but it certainly seems to have cemented them. My question is, looking back on history and how these archetypes have played out over the centuries, can we really call them positive ideals? Unquestionably civilization as an environment has, in many cases, been conducive to marvelous technological, cultural, and moral advances... but it just as unquestionably and at the same time has been the single most powerful tool in manipulating, brutalizing, and generally degrading entire cultures and societies, while promoting the inordinate power of an individual/s. There's not a single civilization with ancient Egypt as an archetype that isn't deeply steeped in blood and oppression. The notion that this archetype is actually our 'nature' is something I also flatly reject. It's a dominant ideal that's so prevalent because it's so aggressive, and the ideals which oppose it, though I feel are of the majority, struggle to gain any real ground against it because they're largely rooted in pacifism. One shouting idiot with a sword/gun can easily drown out a thousand reasoned voices.
SR1419
Senior Member.
Can you suggest another civilization before ancient Egypt that exhibited similar large-scale, centrally directed, coherent political structures that result in technological marvels lasting 1000s of years?
Is there ANY civilization in the history of the World that isn't steeped in blood and oppression??
It has to be our "nature" because it us a reflection of us...some are passive, some are aggressive- all of it is part of us and thus our "nature".
Jazzy
Closed Account
No, I don't think it's unfortunate.
It is good to know you have worked diligently all day, and have earned just a little bit more than you need to live on. That those slight margins may contribute to someone else's wealth shouldn't concern you. It's the system under which we all live. I favor anarcho-syndicalism, but it ain't to be had.
It's the way I worked anyway. (Crap jobs). It never stopped me from raising a family and doing slightly less than what I wished. Most people better off than me don't seem to enjoy their lives any more frequently than I do. I'm talking the history of their lives, over decades, and not about momentary pleasure "gains". Fun is a finite quantity which you cannot keep milking. The first time's the best, etc.
Please understand, by the way, that I have enjoyed your arguments and writing, and especially appreciate your caring approach, although I often find myself disagreeing on balance.
These guys disagree with you.
https://www.freetheslaves.net/SSLPage.aspx?pid=303
External Quote:
- 6800 B.C. The world's first city grows up in Mesopotamia. With the ownership of land and the beginnings of technology comes warfare in which enemies are captured and forced to work: slavery.
- 2575 B.C. Egyptians send expeditions down the Nile River to capture slaves. Temple art celebrates the capture of slaves in battle.
[TD="bgcolor: #ded6c3"][/TD]
This painting on terra cotta depicts slaves in mines in ancient Greece, ca 5 B.C.
Image is in the public domain.
- 550 B.C. The mighty Greek city-state of Athens uses up to 30,000 slaves in the silver mines it controls.
- 120 Slaves are taken by the thousands in Roman military campaigns; some estimates put the population of Rome at more than half slave.
Last edited by a moderator:
Cairenn
Senior Member
An anti-slavery site is NOT experts. It is folks with an agenda and I see several MAJOR errors and omissions in their time line.
I did NOT say that the ancients did NOT have slaves, I said that the pyramids were NOT built by them and that slavery was not the same as what we think of. Many slaves were war captives or criminals.
In early Irish law, if you killed a man, and you could not pay the 'blood price' (a figure that would compensate his family for his loss), then you would be given to his family as a slave. (these are the same laws where the fine for killing a cat was enough grain to cover the cat's body when it was held upright by it's tail. That is a nice amount of grain)
I did NOT say that the ancients did NOT have slaves, I said that the pyramids were NOT built by them and that slavery was not the same as what we think of. Many slaves were war captives or criminals.
In early Irish law, if you killed a man, and you could not pay the 'blood price' (a figure that would compensate his family for his loss), then you would be given to his family as a slave. (these are the same laws where the fine for killing a cat was enough grain to cover the cat's body when it was held upright by it's tail. That is a nice amount of grain)
lotek
Active Member
oh sweet zombie jesus, are we really going to have to do pyramid-slave labor debate? it is SO debunked, by thousands of people. for over half a century. i wouldnt even call it debunked. common knowledge countless phd's, lives devoted to the study, thousands of digs and investigations and papers. id call the idea that they were built by slaves is nothing but religious propaganda. Have you no standards for reality?
yes most cultures owned slaves, now what slave meant is something unique in each of those cultures. Now unless you can show me atleast one good anthropological source for each of the cultures discussed, or are yourself an accomplished cultural anthropologist, i dont feel you have any place to pass judgement over what their conditions were or to compare them.
yes most cultures owned slaves, now what slave meant is something unique in each of those cultures. Now unless you can show me atleast one good anthropological source for each of the cultures discussed, or are yourself an accomplished cultural anthropologist, i dont feel you have any place to pass judgement over what their conditions were or to compare them.
This should get you started.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Potato_Failure
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH="colspan: 4"]Potatoes[/TH]
[TH]Rye[/TH]
[TH]Wheat[/TH]
[TH]Oats[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH]arable land[/TH]
[TH]consumption[/TH]
[TH]1845 yield[/TH]
[TH="colspan: 4"]1846 yield[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH][/TH]
[TH](%)[/TH]
[TH](kg/capita daily)[/TH]
[TH="colspan: 5"](% change on normal)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Belgium[/TH]
[TD]14%[/TD]
[TD]0.5/0.6 kg[/TD]
[TD]−87%[/TD]
[TD]−43%[/TD]
[TD]−50%[/TD]
[TD]−10%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Denmark[/TH]
[TD]3%[/TD]
[TD]0.2/0.3 kg[/TD]
[TD]−50%[/TD]
[TD]−50%[/TD]
[TD]−20%[/TD]
[TD]−20%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Sweden[/TH]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[TD]0.5/0.6 kg[/TD]
[TD]−20–25%[/TD]
[TD]−20–25%[/TD]
[TD]−10%[/TD]
[TD]−10%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]France[/TH]
[TD]App. 6%[/TD]
[TD]0.5 kg[/TD]
[TD]−20%[/TD]
[TD]−19%[/TD]
[TD]−20%[/TD]
[TD]−25%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Württemberg[/TH]
[TD]3–8%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]−55%[/TD]
[TD]−51%[/TD]
[TD]−15%[/TD]
[TD]−24%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Prussia[/TH]
[TD]11%[/TD]
[TD]1.0/1.1 kg[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]−47%[/TD]
[TD]−43%[/TD]
[TD]−43%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Netherlands[/TH]
[TD]11%[/TD]
[TD]0.7 kg[/TD]
[TD]−71%[/TD]
[TD]−56%[/TD]
[TD]−47%[/TD]
[TD]−6%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Spain[/TH]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]low[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Highlands of Scotland[/TH]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]high[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]−80%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Ireland[/TH]
[TD]32%[/TD]
[TD]2.1 kg[/TD]
[TD]−30%[/TD]
[TD]−88%[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]n/a[/TD]
[TD]−33%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 8"]Source: Eric Vanhaute, et al., The European subsistence crisis of 1845–1850: a comparative perspective[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
That's great, at least 4 or 5 posters know all about it.
Can you point me to the definitive evidence so I don't have to read all through loads of blurb about 12 nicely buried skeletons proving that slaves didn't exist or were utilised in building the pyramids.
I expect there is a great and succinct explanation of how they were built relatively easily as well, inc how they quarried, moved, cut and shaped them and sited them with great accuracy with little effort and in short time.
Thanks.
I am sure they would be very grateful if you corrected them. Please let us know how you get on.
Jazzy
Closed Account
Google "prehistoric civil engineering". That should do it. I've seen a few trick videos about how simple the techniques were that were used in the past. Perhaps they're still there. Thank me later when you've made the effort.
Ah, caught it with "moving concrete blocks".
[video=youtube_share;nOgyHcPnI70]http://youtu.be/nOgyHcPnI70[/video]
Ah ha!
[video=youtube_share;znQk_yBHre4]http://youtu.be/znQk_yBHre4[/video]
Meh.
SR1419
Senior Member.
The evidence is more than 12 skeletons- its tombs, writings, organizational details. A body of evidence that has been uncovered since 1990.
Perhaps you can explain why you disagree with Zahi Hawass - the director of Egyptian Antiquities and the World's foremost expert on the pyramids?
http://www.drhawass.com/blog/new-tombs-pyramid-builders-found
http://www.harpercollins.com/books/How-Great-Pyramid-Was-Built/?isbn=9780060891589&excerpt=Y
External Quote:
External Quote:
External Quote:
Perhaps you could provide definitive evidence to the contrary?
I didn't know you could be convinced so easily. I'll bear that in mind.
So how many skeletons of the thousands of 'workers', are we actually talking about.
Is it possible they may be key figures such as architects, engineers and masons?
Might that account for their special burial privileges and working conditions?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt
Is this the same Zahi Hawass? He seems easily convinced as well. Perhaps he has an agenda... a bit of PR for Egyptian human rights... not so off putting to the tourists? 'Oh yes, the people loved building these, in fact we have to constantly stop the local population from building more of them because they have little to do and they just love it so much'.External Quote:
SR1419
Senior Member.
I didn't know you could be convinced so easily. I'll bear that in mind.
So how many skeletons of the thousands of 'workers', are we actually talking about.
Is it possible they may be key figures such as architects, engineers and masons?
Might that account for their special burial privileges and working conditions?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt
Is this the same Zahi Hawass? He seems easily convinced as well. Perhaps he has an agenda... a bit of PR for Egyptian human rights... not so off putting to the tourists? 'Oh yes, the people loved building these, in fact we have to constantly stop the local population from building more of them because they have little to do and they just love it so much'.External Quote:
Apparently is not just Hawass:
Can you provide any evidence to the contrary?External Quote:
Can he or you provide any 'reasonable', 'believable', 'substantive' evidence to back up his 'common knowledge'. Surely if it is that 'common', there must be lots of 'actual evidence' out there. Or maybe just a dozen or so skeletons is all it takes?
SR1419
Senior Member.
You keep pretending that the evidence is just 12 skeletons- when its the tombs built for them (slaves don't get tombs), its the inscriptions indicating labor division, its the lifestyle habits, medical treatment received, food consumption patterns....
Again- Do YOU have ANY 'reasonable', 'believable', 'substantive' evidence to contrary other than Cecil B DeMille?
(good ol JazzRoc!!! )
You keep pretending that the evidence is just 12 skeletons- when its the tombs built for them (slaves don't get tombs), its the inscriptions indicating labor division, its the lifestyle habits, medical treatment received, food consumption patterns....
Again- Do YOU have ANY 'reasonable', 'believable', 'substantive' evidence to contrary other than Cecil B DeMille?
(good ol JazzRoc!!! )
Well Jazzy and I can agree on something so that's good.
Perhaps the thread needs splitting off??? or can we close this down quickly with some 'actual evidence' that slaves were not used?
But you still offer no evidence other than a few people making grandiose statements that suit their agenda.
How many skeletons are we talking about here. I hear 12... you say more... how many.
Even if it were a hundred it would prove nothing as that would appear a reasonable number to have for Master Masons, Architects, Engineers and other professionals. I mean, in the scheme of things, slaves are not likely to be trained up as mathematicians, engineers, architects etc are they?
Cairenn
Senior Member
First there was NEVER any real evidence that slaves built them. Just some 'stories'. NONE of which came from contemporary sources.
The skeletons and mummys are not the ONLY thing. The way they were fed, the type of housing they had, the lack of pictures showing obvious slaves working. Even grave goods. There is overwhelming evidence that they were NOT slaves.
I really think the 'slave' idea came more from movies, than from anything else. Movies are an outstandingly BAD source of facts. Historical ones are very BAD. I have never been able to watch all of Braveheart. Some things I can ignore, but then the scene of the 'warriors in woad' shows up and I am driven out of the movie. Bright Blue clown makeup (woad is more the color of blue jeans) and woad on warriors of that time period. Woad was used by the early Picts, before there were Scots.
The skeletons and mummys are not the ONLY thing. The way they were fed, the type of housing they had, the lack of pictures showing obvious slaves working. Even grave goods. There is overwhelming evidence that they were NOT slaves.
I really think the 'slave' idea came more from movies, than from anything else. Movies are an outstandingly BAD source of facts. Historical ones are very BAD. I have never been able to watch all of Braveheart. Some things I can ignore, but then the scene of the 'warriors in woad' shows up and I am driven out of the movie. Bright Blue clown makeup (woad is more the color of blue jeans) and woad on warriors of that time period. Woad was used by the early Picts, before there were Scots.
So where is your evidence?... other than the nonsense put forward so far.
The concept that they were built by slaves dates all the way back because slaves were commonplace back then and used for all sorts of things... no matter how much you protest it is a 20th century invention.
SR1419
Senior Member.
Well Jazzy and I can agree on something so that's good.
Perhaps the thread needs splitting off??? or can we close this down quickly with some 'actual evidence' that slaves were not used?
But you still offer no evidence other than a few people making grandiose statements that suit their agenda.
How many skeletons are we talking about here. I hear 12... you say more... how many.
Even if it were a hundred it would prove nothing as that would appear a reasonable number to have for Master Masons, Architects, Engineers and other professionals. I mean, in the scheme of things, slaves are not likely to be trained up as mathematicians, engineers, architects etc are they?
As opposed to YOU making grandiose statements to suite your agenda??
Are you purposefully ignoring what I wrote? its not just the skeletons- its the body of evidence including the skeletons- to which I have mentioned several times and you simply ignore.
Never mind that the people who are making the statements are the World's leading experts in the field of Egyptian pyramids...and base their statements off the evidence they have found and I have mentioned.
What exactly is this professor's agenda??:
http://www.ekt.bme.hu/CM-BSC-MSC/WhoBuiltThePyramids.pdf
I guess you would know better...
Again- Do YOU have ANY 'reasonable', 'believable', 'substantive' evidence to contrary other than Cecil B DeMille?
laughing out loud.
I really liked the first two, especially the first one. Clever guy... him not you
But yes, thank you for searching those interesting vids.
I don't really care to be honest. If you want to run around thinking there were never any slaves throughout history and people just built the pyramids because they felt like it be my guest.
I do find it surprising that with the weight of all the 'experts opinions' comes zero evidence worth talking about.
I have asked you for evidence repeatedly but to no avail. I am not running around hunting the internet trying to 'prove' that slavery existed throughout history.
I'm out.
Have whatever last words you want, I am not wasting my time talking to a brick wall.
Cairenn
Senior Member
We have presented plenty of evidence that they WERE NOT built by slaves.
You are saying that they WERE and were is your evidence to support that they were?
NONE of us EVER said that there were NOT slaves, we did say that the conditions surrounding it, and that attitudes toward it and such have changed.
YOU are the one that said the 'pyramids were built by slaves'. Why isn't it your place to find the evidence of it? We contended that they were NOT and we supported our view. Where is evidence to support yours?
It seems to me that the 'brick wall' is OUR proof that they were NOT built by slaves.
You are saying that they WERE and were is your evidence to support that they were?
NONE of us EVER said that there were NOT slaves, we did say that the conditions surrounding it, and that attitudes toward it and such have changed.
YOU are the one that said the 'pyramids were built by slaves'. Why isn't it your place to find the evidence of it? We contended that they were NOT and we supported our view. Where is evidence to support yours?
It seems to me that the 'brick wall' is OUR proof that they were NOT built by slaves.
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