1. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

    Hi,

    I was just wondering that how many here are aware of the so called "cloudseeding" or "geoengineering"?

    The point here, since "they" do that cloudseeding in many places: where are all the pictures from those planes then? Isnt it possible, that in fact: even some of "[chemtrailers]" post real pictures of real cloudseed planes?

    And since we have one atmosphere, at least some of those chemicals will be global then: no matter where you spary them.

    Just thinking, they put on chemicals from a plane to air: resulting in chemtrails.

    "In 1978 an estimated 2,740
    metric tons (metric ton = 1,000 kg) of silver were released into the US environment. This led the
    US Health Services and EPA to conduct studies regarding the potential for environmental and
    human health hazards related to silver. These agencies and other state agencies applied the Clean
    Water Act of 1977 and 1987 to establish regulations on this type of pollution."

    http://www.weathermodification.org/images/AGI_toxicity.pdf


    .. so I just cant belive when someone says "it is safe" to spray chemicals that amount to nature and humans..

    And it seems at the very start of cloudseeding they didnt quite understand what they were doing:

    "Dr. Irving Langmuir, high priest of scientific rainmaking, sounded a solemn warning last week: those who sow too many rainstorms may reap nothing but droughts. Speaking at the School of Mines in drought-threatened New Mexico, Langmuir denounced the commercial rainmakers, many of them woefully ignorant of the art, who are seeding the atmosphere with silver iodide throughout the dry Southwest. "Some of them," he said, "are using hundreds of thousands of times too much. No more than one milligram [.000035 oz] of silver iodide should be used for every cubic mile of air."..."

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,812703,00.html#ixzz1fo5Kx3MI

    Dr. Irving Langmuir, pioneer in “rainmaking,” said the government should seize on the phenomenon of weather control as it did on atomic energy when Albert Einstein told the late President Roosevelt in 1939 of the potential power of an atom-splitting weapon.

    “In the amount of energy liberated, the effect of 30 milligrams of silver iodide [used to seed clouds] under optimum conditions equals that of one atomic bomb,” Langmuir said.

    http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/paleofuture/2011/12/weather-control-as-a-cold-war-weapon/

    Well, that was then. Now the patents speak of nanosized aluminum. And guess why those new vaccines were so dangerous? Couse they were new generation, partially untested, nanovaccines..

    Where are the study that shows nanosized aluminum and barium are safe to breath?

    As we can see in America, the home of cloudseeding, Alzheimer has exploded uprising. And aluminum has been proved in many studys to cause that.

    So, just heard Israel is hiring people on web to "fix politically uncorrect" talk. It is not illegal to do so in USA. How many people here, in fact, are getting payed just to say everyone "its a conspiracy"?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
  2. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    I think most of us are aware of cloudseeding. There are plenty of results when you search on Google Images.

    Here is a (German) video about one of the most 'notorious' cloud seeding entities. They are even using cement powder sometimes:
    http://www.3sat.de/mediathek/index.php?display=13&mode=play&obj=21910

    I can't say anything about impact on the ground, I'm no specialist there,

    Geoengineering is something different than making a storm cloud rain prematurely.

    Both have no relation to what is referred to by the mainstream of believers as "chemtrails". Sure you can make your own definition of the term, but then you would have to include ground-based and stationary releases of chemicals, including exhausts.
     
  3. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

    I called our university Helsinki, which has those SMEAR stations, if you are familiar to them?

    Anyway, he sayed the smallest particle they can measure would be only about 3mikrometers.

    So basically what I think of that, would it even be possible to find nanosized aluminum in the air to anyone without something like NASA-class equipment?

    And that brings also a doubt, how could they measure then the aluminun from water? I am referring to those many tests claiming to be rainwater tests: having many hundreds time more aluminum in the rain that is safe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
  4. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  5. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I am a studio artist, I make jewelry for a living. NO one pays be to be here. I was raised to be skeptical of 'claims'.

    Some information on AL and Alzheimers


    http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp


    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alzheimers-disease/DS00161/DSECTION=risk-factors



    http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/alzheimers/qanda.shtm




    http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/controversial-claims-risk-factors



    http://www.ehso.com/ehso2.php?URL=h...site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99

     
  6. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

    Thx, but I have read some of those and they really do not answer my question of who really has the equipment even to measure nanosized aluminum in the air?

    But what comes to those studies I could imagine this scanerio: ok lets imagine there is nanosized aluminum in the air and it causes alzheimer. Some scientists find that on dead patients brain.

    Some scientists disagree and make tests with for example rats, who they give aluminum in food and after the rats are dead: they find nothing.

    Why? Couse when particle is nanosized it will go through your bloodvessels and other bodys normal defence mechanism against foreign substances.

    I highly doubt that they would base that imaginary rat test to claim, that "they" spray nanosized aluminum in the air, yes?
     
  7. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    First --- is there any evidence for nano aluminum being sprayed in the air?
    How is done? How can an airplane lift the amounts that some say?

    There seems to be plenty of folks in the US that can test for it.
     
  8. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

    Well me thinks all those patents of geoengineering regardin of spraying aluminum are some kind of evidence that "they" at least are planning to do that.

    I mean arent those patents quite expensive so I would not imagine someone would just do them for fun..

    But what you mean airplane could not "lift" aluminum?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
  9. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    What is your obsession with nanosized. You do realise the nanosized particulate matter is measured on a daily, if not hourly, basis. In the US check this site for PM10, that is particulates 10 nm or less
    http://www.epa.gov/airtrends/

    Pm2.5 and PM10 charts
    http://www.epa.gov/airtrends/pm.html

    In the UK we even measure individual metals

    http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/data/non-auto-data?uka_id=UKA00451&network=rm&s=View Site
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013
  10. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Cost of a patent

    http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee031913.htm

    Is 180 dollars a lot?
     
  11. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    A contrail weighs hundreds of thousands of pounds. No aircraft could lift that and and it certainly couldn't be hid somewhere.
     
  12. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    A common misunderstanding of this whole rainwater-analysing business is that the elements - like Aluminum - in the test results are 'free-floating' in the water. This is fundamentally wrong; the largest part of these elements arrives at the test as compounds in minerals - dust, in a nutshell.
    Aluminum is also part of those minerals, at at a mean level of seven percent in the earth's crust.

    The testing procedure breaks the compounds into their elements. That is the reason why there must be taken great care with the sampling process. If you want to test water, you have to filter out solid parts.

    Now have a look at those high aluminum levels again. How were the samples taken?
    Some people follow the "advice" to take samples during the start of rain after a dry stretch. Can you imagine how those first drops are collecting all the dust from the air?
     
  13. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin New Member

    So you have one link which is to cover all USA air from nanoparticles?

    Nanosized, yes is the keyword here since nanosized particles pose the most great risk on human health on air. Even that WHO sayed they are the most "dangerous predator to humankind" <-- just my tweak they sayed.. But they sayed yes, that the most dangerous thing outside is the small particles in the air we breath.


    I really have not familiriazed on that subject so deeply, but in here Finland a "little" patent just in Finland costs like many hundred euros.

    So I would assume, that 180 dollars is just a part-patent if I understand USA police correct: whole patent in the whole USA would cost much more and also, when the patent is world wide it gets very costly..

    I am sorry, do you mean a watervapour weights hundrers of pounds or chemical vapour would?

    Can you explain that more deeply? I am aware that in soil, the aluminium have been a concern couse of the "acid rain" but we cannot rule out the option, that the aluminum in fact: has been not separated from the soil compound, but has been delivered to the soil from the planes.

    For far as I know, there is no study that shows particulaly where the aluminum is from: they are all based on that belif it is from the soil. But since we know there is this option, that it also can be delivered from air above: what would the studies say if they would study based on this belief, that aluminum is from the sky?


    Sorry English is not my motherslanguage - can you explain what you mean by "elements arrives at the test as compounds"?

    But you must know, that aluminum is tied to other particels in crust and does not show anywhere as pure aluminum naturally? Except nowadays - from acid rain or from chemtrails.


    Sorry I am lost again.. Could you explain that more simple?

    I agree that amateur tests are very poor. But on this subject, I feel that there is very much secrecy from the gov. And all secrecy suggests, that they do not play fair. Me thinks that we must not let the history repeat itself: govs murder people.
     
  14. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    First $180 is not a lot, folks pay that much for popular concert tickets or for parking and tickets to a US football game. It is quite possible to spend more than that on a nice steak dinner for 2 and mid priced bottle of wine.

    Aluminum is not a part of acid rain, sulphur is. Acid soils interact with aluminum to make it more available to plants.

    Aluminum is one of the most common materials on the planet, in general, any clay soil will have a lot of aluminum. Dust can be carried for hundreds, even thousands of miles. In fact, bacteria from dust from the Sahara is having negative effects on coral reefs in the Caribbean.

    Where is this 'secrecy from the government"? They publish the figures in the US and in the UK.
     
  15. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    A compound is created when atoms are tied to other atoms - they react and form a new substance. So we are talking about the same thing. You are right, there are no "pure" metals in natural soil.

    Most minerals (like Silicon dioxide, also called "sand", or Bauxite which contains a lot of Aluminum) are very stable compounds, and it takes a lot of energy to break them up into the pure atomic elements.

    Yet in a spectrographic analysis even the minerals will be broken up, nano-sized or not. So the metals that were 'tied' to the minerals show up in the test result.

    If you agree that the quality of the alarming "rain water" tests is bad, and not a single scientist from any country around the world is reporting Aluminum in rain water, then why should we assume that there is something unnatural in the rain?

    After all, the whole assumption was based on those amateur tests.


    (BTW, if you should understand German by any chance, I can translate my posts on request)
     
  16. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Gaikokujin, maybe a recent example will help your understanding. You remember the Eyjafjallajökull eruption?

    This volcano released 500 tons/second of volcanic ash over many days.

    eyjafjallajokull_ali_2010138.

    It spread across Europe and even Finland where you live. It was a small volcano, the Grímsvötn eruption of 2011 threw out around 10,000 tonnes of tephra per second.

    Planes flew through the cloud of ash and smoke collecting particles, here is what they found:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...hYFuJsygm9aBSCjzw&sig2=qDqAvx9GjYu9qGMQg7y47w

    Iceland pm.

    Looking at the images above, you can see that there are many particles smaller than 1 micron, into the nanoscale size. In fact, while most particles are greater than 5 micron, many were certainly nanoparticles. Nanoparticles can be detected!

    Iceland dist.

    They also did a chemical analysis of the ash and found that about 15% was aluminum oxide Al2O3:

    iceland al.

    The point is that life has evolved with whatever is in the earth. About 8% of earth's crust is aluminum. The two other most common elements in the crust are oxygen and silicon. As you can see in the chart above, most of earth's crust is silicon (Si) and Oxygen (O2).

    All life from the beginning has been in contact with this soil and has evolved ways of living with it. It is mainly harmless because the aluminum is closely bonded with other elements like silicon and oxygen and remains inert. Inert means it cannot cause harm.
    ================================================================

    Now let's talk about geoengineering. The idea for geoengineering came from observations of volcanoes which were measured to reduce solar transmission through the atmosphere. Geoengineering would do the same thing. There is a 50+ year record of solar transmission which clearly shows the effect of volcanoes. If geoengineering were happening, it would do the same thing as volcanoes do. The record would show it. But it does not:

    mauna loa3.

    Conclusions:
    1. Aluminum is common on earth, and naturally exists in soil, air and water, even at the nanoparticle size.
    2. Most aluminum, even at the nanoparticle size is harmlessly combined with the two other most common elements on earth, silicon and oxygen.
    3. Evidence exists that would show if geoengineering is taking place, but it does not show up.

    Any further questions?
     
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