1. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The moment I saw them advertising a mineral I knew it probably contained aluminum, because it is the third most abundant element in minerals.

    Sure enough. 12.99% alumina Al2O3 (aluminum oxide)

    And of course, it's NANO-SIZED!

    CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF MAJOR ELEMENTS IN CLINOPTILOLITE ZEOLITE:
    http://www.safesalt.com.au/clinoptilolitezeolite.html

    Don't anyone tell them about this, let's see if they ever figure it out for themselves,
    just save it till the time is right! These goons haven't a clue.
     
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Well. That's a bit awkward.
     
  3. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    hahaha, thats great! One part of the site talks about how bad Aluminum oxide is, and yet there is someone trying peddle it in a product
     
  4. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    They have some explanation for this. So important they put it twice in this cut-and-paste FAQ:

    http://www.donnavaldes.com/sports/faqs.html

    Of course, aluminum in aluminum oxide is also "surrounded by oxygen"
     
  6. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    It doesn't get any better! Michael Murphy and the Coalition Against Geoengineering

    http://www.coalitionagainstgeoengineering.org/
     
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Looking at the "technical" explanation of Zeolife (tm), it seems pretty clear that true believers will have little difficultly in accepting that it's a "good" (or at least "neutral") form of aluminum.

    This is the clincher:

    :eek:

    The problem with using this in debunking is that people are very attached to their alternative medicines, to a religious level. One you go down that route you've left science behind, and would now be arguing on their turf - as you've essentially got to debunk the entire world of quack medicine to make a point.

    I think the approach should not be "ha ha, you promote aluminum in your quack medicine", but rather "just like in zeolites, the aluminum in aluminum oxide is not bioavailable, as it's surrounded by oxygen".
     
  8. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    To an extent, you are right but now they've got a clear choice to make.

    (1) Aluminum compounds are ubiquitous substances found in nature reflecting its status as the third most abundant element. It is not surprising to find these compounds anywhere in the planet, including soils, aeolian dust, water and snowfall. Life has developed on earth and coexisted with this element from the inception, demonstrating that in ordinary circumstances, almost all forms of aluminum are harmless.

    (2) Aluminum compounds are highly reactive, toxic even at low levels, and should not be found in soil, air or water at all. Any form of aluminum has negative consequences for health and the environment.

    If they choose 1 above, their past arguments are gone.

    If they choose 2 above, they must fight as hard against aluminum supplements being promoted for "de-toxification" as they do against it being found in the environment. They must also wear particulate masks 24/7/365 and develop special diets to exclude all aluminum from natural sources from being inhaled or consumed.
     
  9. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    So, here is the crystalline structure of aluminum oxide

    I see what you mean, Mick. The aluminum in aluminum oxide is protected by the oxygen surrounding it,
    just like in Zeolite, an aluminosilicate mineral which also happens to contain 13% aluminum oxide.

    I really don't know why Dr. Lenny Thyme didn't explain the whole story for Michael J. Murphy,
    or perhaps he did but got edited out. As I understand it, Michael J. Murphy has hours of footage of
    chemtrail skeptics explaining exactly how he went wrong, but he neglected to put them in the film
    'What In The World Are They Spraying'.

    Nuclear magnetic resonance reveals the structure of amorphous aluminum oxide.

    This diagram makes it quite clear:
    [Broken External Image]:http://www.natureasia.com/asia-materials/article_images/640.jpg
     
  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Or more like:

    [​IMG]

    It's silly really. It's also kind of irrelevant, as NOBODY IS SPRAYING IT!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  11. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    This is.......amazing and unexpected, yet strangely not a surprise!!

    thanks Jay & Mick
     
  12. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Michael J. Murphy's Coalition Recommends 1 teaspoon of 11.3% aluminum oxide/day

    From the Coalition Against Geoengineering website:
    The link at the CAG website for the particular brand of zeolite:

    http://www.zeohealth.com/zeolite/zeolite-1314960709/_/zeolite-pure.html

    zeohealth brand research:

    http://www.zeohealth.com/zeolite/research.html

    The research document itself:
    The http://www.complexperiments.net/Zeolites/Papers/MMM2000.pdf#search=‘Time evolution of a natural clinoptilolite in aqueous medium: conductivity and pH experiments

    So, Michael J. Murphy, president of the Coalition Against Geoengineeing, is recommending on his own website that a teaspoon of clinoptilolite should be taken per day (if you can afford it). The brand of zeolite mineral clinoptilolite is said to contain 11.3% aluminum oxide.

    It is abundanly clear that according to the Coalition Against Geoengineering's own website, aluminum oxide is harmless to the human body under ordinary circumstances.
     
  13. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The local Los Angeles Skywatch here is also pushing zeolites:

    http://losangelesskywatch.org/event/how-to-safely-remove-the-toxins-from-chemtrails-and-in-the-environment-from-our-bodies


    Scheller is a "60K Emerald" member of Waiora, a large Multi-Level-Marketing company that sells Natural Cellular Defense zeolite. So after educating you on how important zeolite is for your health, he'll be able to sell you some, and even set you up downstream so you can sell it to your friends.
     
  14. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Uh huh...this whole thing is basically just a recruitment meeting to get them into an MLM. The for-profit conspiracy continues

    And they actually want people to pay for the honor of attending this attempted MLM recruitment.
     
  15. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    The Waiora site for their brand of zeolite is here:
    http://www.waiora.com/products/pro_ncd.php

    At the bottom of the page, on the right hand side, are a set of "Related Links".

    The third link leads you to this paper:
    The Removal of Heavy Metal Cations by Natural Zeolites | Journal of Colloid and Interface Science

    On the second page right hand column is Table 1, which lists their zeolite as being 13.11%

    The bottom line for this particular study actually has no bearing on zeolite's ability to do what is beingclaimed by Waiora, however, because the study was not done on the efficacy in the gut the study only was concerened with waste water treatment.
    Here is "What a Physician Should Know About Zeolites" via PubMed, National Institutes of Health:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11291273
     
  16. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

    Waiora seems to be the MLM of choice for chemmies, or possibly people pretending to be chemmies
     
  17. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

  18. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    connections, connections

    Only one of the related links on the Waiora zeolite page has evidence for it's efficacy in removing metals from the human body, all the rest mention zeolite, bu none studied detoxification.
    Waiora's zeolite:
    http://www.waiora.com/products/pro_ncd.php
    Their paper:
    http://www.dovepress.com/clinical-e...d-clinoptilolite-su-peer-reviewed-article-NDS

    The study gave Waiora's zeolite to volunteers, 4 days later levels of metals in urine increased in concentration.

    However, zeolites absorb water and are known to cause dehydration. People that are dehydrated excrete urine that is more concentrated.

    Two other problems.
    First, Dove Press is known as a 'vanity press', the study published in 2009, was one of two articles published, and the only original research published that year. The journal Nutrition and Dietary Supplements is not a real journal.

    Second, the authors all have a strong conflict of interest.
    James L Flowers: Consultant to Waiora
    Stewart A Lonky: Medical Doctor, promotes Waiora
    Erik J Deitsch: Produces the zeolite sold by Waiora

    Also see the Corporate wiki:
    http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/West-Palm-Beach/stanley-j-cherelstein-P225346.aspx
     
  19. firepilot

    firepilot New Member

  20. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    zeolite also contains barium and strontium

    A Waiora competitor had Waiora's NCD brand zeolite analyzed, it also has barium and strontium in it, as well as lead and arsenic.
    http://www.zeohealth.com/NCD2010.pdf

    BTW, the competitor, Zeohealth, is the brand linked directly at Michael J. Murphy and G. Edward Griffin's Coalition Against Geoengineering.

    Not unexpectedly, Zeohealth does not publish a full elemental analysis of their own brand as they did with their competitor's.
     
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Based on that analysis they can't even claim that the aluminum is in a "good" molecular configuration, as it actually contains around 10% aluminum in the form of feldspars (not that that's any less good than Clinoptilolite, but they might claim it is)
     
  22. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    do I read that right when I see it also containing Uranium, Rubidium & Thorium?

    I wonder if "they" know that Rubidium 87, about 28% of naturally occuring Rb, has a 39 million year half life??:eek: :cool:
     
  23. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    yes, the uranium at 22 ppm is way high.


    In 2003, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) created a Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for uranium concentrations in drinking water of 30 μg/liter (which is approximately 30 parts per billion).

    BTW, "Inspired by the Polynesian goddess of health and longevity, Waiora is a company
    committed to helping our distributors improve their lives through our products and business opportunity.
    The lily on the top of the logo mark signifies a blooming lotus flower from this mythical garden. It represents the opportunity of optimal health and wealth that
    is possible through Waiora. The interconnecting lines signify the connection that all distributors have to each other and the company through the direct-selling
    industry paradigm."
    "the 7 core terms used to describe the brand: Natural, Trusted, Global, Clean, Inviting, Modern, Targeted"
    https://shop.waiora.com/media/distributorTools/guidelinesManualDist.pdf
     
  24. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    From that site, dated 21/9/2011:

    Given that Mr Gunderson is deceased the claim that he is "now" doing something shuold probably be updated!!
     
  25. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    On September 23, 2011, at 45 minutes, 40 seconds, Michael Murphy stated the following:
     
  26. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    Interesting. Even if MJM isn't just a 'business believer' then this blatant plug certainly makes it sound like he has a business relationship with those discussed above who clearly are.
    I wonder if he gets commission?
     
  27. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Well, maybe Michael J. Murphy has his follower's best interests in heart, in which case he would be promoting zeolite even more.

    Then again, one might determine that he has a heart of:

    GOLD SNAKE OIL!


    [​IMG]
    “Golden Key 360 Rejuvenation Oil” combines the healing qualities of Gold & Rose Essential Oil. When combined, they synergistically create a powerful, high frequency, balanced energy field of non-polarity.


    Healing / Recalibration Qualities:


    •Balances the electrical meridians of the body
    •Purifies and energizes the physical body ; encourages release of embedded discordant energy patterns
    •Encourages clearing of trauma & fears held within the cellular memory of the body and brain
    •Has a deep calming effect on the nervous system which enhances a positive out look and a feeling of wellbeing
    •Resonates high, restorative energy into the electrical field of body
    •Helps facilitate restored communication between bio-photon body and molecular cell
    •Supports resistance to invasive discordant energy fields.
    •Improves circulation and strengthens the nervous system
    •Balances and develops the energy field of the heart
    •Facilitates access to higher States of Being
    •Creates a balance of brain function between creative and logical thought (balances hemispheres of the brain)
    •Speeds cell rejuvenation process having an anti-aging effect
    •Moisturizes, tones, firms & promotes elasticity of skin
    •Decreases appearance of fine lines and wrinkles
    To Order : Diane MacAulay 805-252-0342 mergedfields@yahoo.com

    http://www.whatintheworldaretheyspraying.info/golden-key-rejuvenation-oil
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  28. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    Ha, nice find! I think only maybe one - or at most two - of those claims could even be tested scientifically. That's the way to do it!
     
  29. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    "DR" Gabriel Cousens

    Gabriel Cousens MD, is a licensed homeopathic practitioner (M.D.H) who is hot on the chemtrails bandwagon.

    He is a proponent of Zeolite...

    http://www.liquidzeolite.org/intro/gabriel-cousens.html
    Considering the amount of Al02 in zeolite, it's ironic when he describes the components of "chemtrails".....


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    tid-bit on Mr Cousens.....
    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-04-10/news/arizona-s-homeopathic-board-is-the-second-chance-for-doctors-who-ve-lost-their-conventional-medical-licenses-in-other-states/3/

    ....so this vegan and "raw food" doctor, is (again, ironically) willing to inject his paying "patients" with sheep/cow RNA/DNA...??
    Note: the patient died of a gangrene infection beginning at the injection site, according to the medical examiner. The complaints levied against Mr Cousens were dismissed...

     
  30. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    Really the only sentence you need to describe homeopathy. In fact, I am 100% certain that adherence to the laws and practices of "homeopathic medicine" is responsible for more lives lost than saved. Obviously, that's a moot point once you know homeopathy has never saved a life in medical history. Now, the placebo effect - inherent in homeopathy - probably has saved some lives, but clearly that has nothing to do with the laws and theories behind homeopathic medicine, and is equally true of any inert 'medicine' which is believed to heal.

    I'm preaching to the choir. I'll stop.
     
  31. mumps

    mumps Guest

    hello there
    just to say the zeolite powder cannot cross the intestine barrier.
    whoever says the countrary is a fool.
    is clear that if only a little bit of the product could cross the barrier and goes into the bloodstrem we would be dead in no time.
    zeolite only works inside the intenstine and it does it with its high selectivity towards heavy metals in general.
    zeolite is a great product and it's great to purify your intestine (and then your whole body).
    i can ensure that all the other stuff i did read on the internet (its anticancer propierties ecc) it's complete bullshit.
    hope i made myself clear.
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    mumps, can you provide references for those claims?
     
  33. Leifer

    Leifer Senior Member

    I guess you may be referring to the sentence by tryblinking...
    ....which cannot be the case, simply because homeopathy is largely a non-effective treatment, albeit a harmless one -- unless a case of overdose or allergic reaction takes place. There is another danger of homeopathy....that of seeking an alternate, and unproven method to cure potentially fatal diseases, while rejecting the statically proven methods of battling such disease.
    BTW...not all alternative methods result in fatalities......many (most?) alternative homeopathic methods seem to be a futile attempts to seek comfort in a rather secret "home" type remedy, without actually seeking (and paying for) a proper physician .
     
  34. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    Hmmm...

    Apparently, I have been banned from posting on AirCrap website...tis a shame.

    Does anyone care to reply to this fellow and correct him on his belief of the causes of contrail formation and persistence?? :

    From this article:

    http://aircrap.org/david-keith-geo-engineer-air-waste-dump-co2/333060/

    Cying Suomi
    November 17, 2011 - 3:05 PM

    "....leaving out the little details about cloud condensation nuclei and the fact that strontium, aluminum, barium and other metals are the true cause of persistence, otherwise the trail left behind would quickly sublimate and disappear (of course less the rare occasion of supersaturation conditions)....

    Did you ever happen to realize that Lead was a component of fuel back during this time? Did you know that it makes for a dandy Cloud Condensation Nuclei?
    And here you go on about it being pure H2O and ice crystals.
    I don’t think that anyone on this site disputes that what we see, visually is the formation of water droplets and ice crystals – what you are diverting from is the fact that CCN are the cause of formation and persistence. Now that my friend is undisputed scientific fact – proven by the laws of physics."

    Apparently he is unaware that jet exhaust contains soot...and I would dearly like to clarify that for him...:)

    Anyone??
     
  35. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    Thor has them on the ropes. The last resort of tyrants, censorship.
     
  36. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

  37. tryblinking

    tryblinking Member

    tl;dr
    Sorry, but I got very bored of reading it very quickly. Was there anything substantiated with evidence in there?
     
  38. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There was substantial evidence that the writer is a true believer. Seeing conspiracies within the conspiracy movement.

     
  39. Spongebob

    Spongebob Active Member

    I thought you would enjoy the 'connections' :D

    I doubt any of that trash could be proven, I found it interesting because Hilder talks so much crap and he was mentioned in relation to all of those other BS artists.

    I should have mentioned this when I posted the link , ooops. :p
     
  40. Jay Reynolds

    Jay Reynolds Senior Member

    A recent audio interview with Michael J. Murphy on Carol Grieve's Food Integrity Now may be listened to here:
    http://foodintegritynow.org/2012/03/16/michael-murphy-why-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

    At the beginning, the sponsor of the show is said to be "Dr. Willard's Water". This water is a combination of Lignite Coal and other substances suspended in water.
    This 1985 document shows a chemical analysis of the water contains .000027 mg/ml of sodium aluminate NaAlO2.
    http://drwillard.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Wash.-State-Rad.-Study-smaller.pdf

    Converting the units to the format used in water tests presented by chemtrail advocates yields a concentration of 27 ug/L sodium aluminate.

    Sodium aluminate is a commonly used alkaline chemical to reduce phosphate loading in municipal wastewater(sewage):
    http://usalco.com/products/liquid-sodium-aluminate

    My point in bringing this up is not that this concentration of aluminum-bearing chemical is necessarily harmful, I bring out this fact to show how ubiquitous aluminum is in our environment, how various aluminum compounds are useful and most are harmless, and that even people who have an irrational aversion to anything containing aluminum often remain ignorant that they are promoting the sale of aluminum containing products while at the same time declaring aluminum to always be toxic.
     
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