# What kind of aircraft displays these kind of lights?

It may be possible to validate the suggestion of the two aircraft refuelling without @eyeSpy co-operation.
As I posted above, there is another flying object in the video, a single dot of light moving in an opposite direction with a similar angular speed (blue arrow) that appears to be a satellite:
It passed near a bright star (left of the arrowhead) that can be identified as beta Cepheus, a.k.a., Alfirk. If we can identify this satellite, we can verify the time of filming and probably narrow down the camera location. Any takers?
@flarkey is the expert

I cannot see a sat on in-the-sky.org that matches at that time, there's Starlink (2121) that is close but its moving in the opposite direction.

Could be the location is off by enough to make it matter, but I don't see anything close on that trajectory either.

...aaaaaand @eyeSpy has blocked me on Twitter.

Let's say we "assume" the object is the plane at 25000ft barometric, we know it is right by Cep 11 which at that time is at 42.07 degrees apparent alt

So we can work out with Pythagoras (accounting for the for the curve of the earth) an approximate circle of possible locations from the GPS ground track of the plane?

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Let's say we "assume" the object is the plane at 25000ft barometric, we know it is right by Cep 11 which at that time is at 42.07 degrees apparent alt

So we can work out with Pythagoras (accounting for the for the curve of the earth) an approximate circle of possible locations from the GPS ground track of the plane?
we could work out the polar vector (distance and direction) using a mix of Pythagoras (with the star's elevation as one of the interior angles to calculate the distance) and the azimuth to Cep11 as the direction vector. And then using the haversine formula we could do a polar projection from the plane's GPS ground position. that would give you a fairly accurate location of where the observer was.

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@flarkey is the expert

I cannot see a sat on in-the-sky.org that matches at that time, there's Starlink (2121) that is close but its moving in the opposite direction.

Could be the location is off by enough to make it matter, but I don't see anything close on that trajectory either.
I store the Space Track full catalogue every day and have the 24th. I also tore Mccants Classified milsats.

I also found Starlink 2121 and also Breeze M Debris passing by. However, also as you note, both satellites are descending. So, it's a fail from me.
I searched a time period of 9:20 to 9:30 (observers timezone) and there are others but all descending.

Listen quirky...let this be clear. Regardless of how this turns out....
I still have hundreds of videos all displaying completely unique Phenomenon on my account.
this one is not even on the top 10.
You had me at "Listen quirky..."

Seriously, this abrupt non sequitur move to "hundreds" of other super special, unique to eyeSpy,
magical phenomena--making the poster immeasurably special, I reckon--is off-topic & where I get off.

I'm genuinely curious If you can find a precise answer.
I'll take you at your word, but you sure didn't seem to have much patience for any
possible answer that didn't imply that you discovered a "completely unique phenomenon."

I was addressing his words, and didn't see it as about the guy...but if it's too close, I totally understand, and apologize. NP

...aaaaaand @eyeSpy has blocked me on Twitter.
Me too. Unfortunately he's convinced he's a serial experiencer who can summon UFOs, and seem very reluctant to have any of them solved.

In our last exchange he said the tanker was "70 miles away" from him when he took the video. I asked him for a more specific location (within 1/2 a mile) and he blocked me.

This is a very interesting case though, a novel pattern of lights. Shame we can't get a better location, so things can be ruled in/out.

Me too. Unfortunately he's convinced he's a serial experiencer who can summon UFOs, and seem very reluctant to have any of them solved.

In our last exchange he said the tanker was "70 miles away" from him when he took the video. I asked him for a more specific location (within 1/2 a mile) and he blocked me.

This is a very interesting case though, a novel pattern of lights. Shame we can't get a better location, so things can be ruled in/out.

I tried talking to him about being more cooperative with details as well, even though I think this is intriguingly ambiguous, but he genuinely didn't seem to be on board with it at all.

if it's an airplane flying along then it's only natural that the orientation and visibility of the lights will change as the angle of the plane towards us changes over time.
I really do think this is just some airplanes. The flashing red light is exactly where it would be on an airplane, and I find the idea that sneaky aliens would strap massive blazing lights to their crafts in some crude mimicry of us really to be straining credulity. At some point you're just ad hoc ruling out anything falsifying the extraordinary hypothesis.
Edit: I don't think us not being able to hear the plane is that surprising, whether an airplane is audible is highly dependent on its distance and on things like prevailing winds, and the fact that this set up has not amazing audio quality and some noticeable extraneous sound and music doesn't help.
UFOs themselves strain credulity, so once you're in the mode of hypothesizing about incredible unknowns, our psychological perspectives could be useless.
It's probably just planes, I'm just leaving open the possibility that there are behaviours of UFOs I don't understand. I don't want to waste time on this hypothetical point about NHI psychology that can't be solved here.

I'm more interested if somebody can model the movement of those lights as being on some aircraft.
The lights seemed to be almost directly over-head, so the movement of the lights is even stranger looking to me, but that should make modeling it a bit easier.

At 9:23:30 pm local time (02:23:30 UTC), BOLT47's position is 31.5097,-92.20979. According to Google Maps, Barksdale Air Force Base is located at 32.499989, -93.661859.

At this time, BOLT47 is... 109 miles away from the base.

Yeah, here's a circle 109 miles from Barksdale, and the track at 9:23 CDT (local time)

There's a very good reason to have a red flashing strobe: to blend in. Bidirectional mimicry is a theory based on many UFO observations that has been put forth.
Source: https://youtu.be/VD0ZVbtbnfI?si=MLJdd0r-HqzOUM_c&t=1367

The supporting video (TobyAM) is not really credible as a helpful source about the reality or otherwise of UFOs, or their lighting arrangements.

In the video, the speaker connects UFOs with

(1) bigfoot,
(2 ) "balverines", pictured below
(3) werewolves
(4) newly-acquired telepathy
(5) poltergeist activity, and "hitchhiker effect" (poltergeist activity following the experiencer from a location- the speaker is presumably unaware that for decades, many investigators who believe in poltergeists have theorised that the activity is connected to the experiencer, not a location)
(6) "discarnate voices" (which, if they are new, recurring and occur while wide awake, really should be checked out by a doctor)
(7) Skinwalker Ranch, essentially an entertainment franchise. Unaccountably some connected individuals received taxpayer's money to investigate anomalous phenomena.
A brief read of items on this forum (and impartial commentators elsewhere) might suggest that Skinwalker Ranch folk are amongst the least effective investigators of the paranormal ever.
A fly, flying across the field of view of a camera, becomes a huge supersonic UFO.
A ground survey by a UAV finds a "wormhole" intersecting the Earth's surface on Skinwalker Ranch territory. (No it doesn't).

The Skinwalker Ranch shows are reasonably popular, and therefore lucrative, TV programs. They're not documentaries, they're not educational, and they're not really about investigating UFOs or other anomalous phenomena- just like WWE shows aren't really about bitter rival streetfighters engaged in combat to determine who's best.

(Screenshots from the video, click to enlarge)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Quoted from a fictional character, authored by a man (Arthur Conan Doyle) who believed in the literal existence of fairies,
having seen irrefutable proof such as this- the Cottingley fairies, photographed by two girls, cousins aged 16 and 9:

It's hard to say with a plane track not too much wriggle room I'd guess if we are matching to individual stars

What I do know is the start of the video is framed on here

https://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/8541920#annotated

And the end is here near Cepheus

https://nova.astrometry.net/user_images/8541965#annotated

So from near Alexandria at the time stated 02:23 UTC that is looking due north at Alrakis (the exact location does not affect the star view much)

The object makes this path across the sky

I think this means that the video was taken in landscape mode, with the horizon parallel to the bottom edge. Could you confirm that, please?

Me too. Unfortunately he's convinced he's a serial experiencer who can summon UFOs, and seem very reluctant to have any of them solved.

In our last exchange he say id the tanker was "70 miles away" from him when he took the video. I asked him for a more specific location (within 1/2 a mile) and he blocked me.

This is a very interesting case though, a novel pattern of lights. Shame we can't get a better location, so things can be ruled in/out.
So, given the Barksdale distance, the camers could be located at Fort Polk South?
And then the tanker track would fit the observation if the clock of the "actual camera" (see post #27) is slow by a minute? (See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/accuracy-of-camera-clocks.13036/ ) If @eyeSpy wanted to check that, he could.

Would the astronomy work for that? No, because it put the observer SSW of the object.

Let's say we "assume" the object is the plane at 25000ft barometric, we know it is right by Cep 11 which at that time is at 42.07 degrees apparent alt

So we can work out with Pythagoras (accounting for the for the curve of the earth) an approximate circle of possible locations from the GPS ground track of the plane?
h = 25050 ft = 7635 m (altitude of aircraft). For a more exact value, we'd need to know the air pressure at the time from weather data.
Elevation of Alexandria: 23m
Article:

Consider the triangle formed by the observer O, the aircraft A, and the center C of the Earth. The angle at O is 90⁰+42.07⁰=132.07⁰.
Let α be the angle at the aircraft, and apply the law of sines.
Then sin(α)/r=sin(132⁰)/(r+h), or more precisely,
sin(α)=6372424×sin(132.07⁰)/(6372401+7635)=0.7414411062
That corresponds to α=47.8543208196⁰.
The angle at C is 180⁰-132.07⁰-47.85⁰=0.0756791804⁰.
That corresponds to 0.076×60= 4.54 nautical miles = 8.4 km = 5.2 miles ground distance.

If I vary the altitude of the aircraft, I get 7655 m ~ 0.0759⁰, 7635 m ~ 0.0757⁰, 7615 m ~ 0.0755⁰, so the result seems fairly robust.

Edit: typo in Earth radius corrected

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The angle at C is 180⁰-132.07⁰-47.85⁰=0.0756791804⁰.
That corresponds to 0.076×60= 4.54 nautical miles = 8.4 km = 5.2 miles ground distance.
I've caught and corrected a typo that made the Earth radius at the observer 6272424, whereas the correct value is 6372424. This changed the result substantially.

It appears that the OP doesn't like our methods, particularly doesn't like my 'little pictures'.

We are all clowns

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Maybe the timing is just a bit off.

They state that they saw the lights heading in a north east direction. BOLT47 was generally heading NE from about 9:19 pm until 9:21 pm. In this part of the track.

At this part of the track, the plane would have also been closer to the red marker on Alexandria in Mick's post above and the aircraft would be essentially turning around the observer.

This would actually also be a great explanation for why the lights that we see look like they do. The tanker and trailing aircraft would have been in a right bank to make this gradual turn. In a right bank the right wing would be pointed down towards the ground (and observer in this case) and the left wing pointed up and away from the ground (and observer). You'd see the green nav light on the right wing but the red nav light of left wing would probably be blocked by the wing itself. That lines up with the lights in the image. Not only that, but the distance between the green nav light and the red beacon on the belly would appear shortened in a right bank.

Maybe the timing is just a bit off.
I noted that above. The video was taken on an "actual camera", and these devices don't usually sync their clocks via the net, so they can be off quite a substantial amount. When he encountered that with the Las Vegas flare sightings, Mick made a thread about it, at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/accuracy-of-camera-clocks.13036/

So the OP may have reported the time stamp of the video in good faith, but the clock could be off. If they were cooperative, this would be very simple to check.

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I've taken a screenshot from 0:16s of the youtube video linked here:

And ran it through Astrometry with the same result as jarlrmai, placing it in Draco. I overlaid a shot from Stellarium showing azimuthal grid. The video is rotated about 50 degrees from horizontal:
Can we do this with any of the stars later in the video, and then project the path of the 'spaceship' onto a starmap? With that info we could cross reference it with the known track of the plane to see of there is a timing error in the witness's "9.23pm' ... ?

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The video is rotated about 50 degrees from horizontal:
that's what I meant to ask earlier, but forgot

It's easy to assume that the video was filmed in landscape mode, with the lower edge of the picture horizontal, but you're saying it wasn't?
If it makes any difference they're now saying that it was heading in a north-easterly direction, despite saying this in a previous tweet:

Note this says the orientation stays the same, but not that it's horizontal.

For it to be horizontal, since the sky rotates, the time would need to be off by a large amount, right?
With that info we could cross reference it with the known track of the plane to see of there is a timing error in the witness's "9.23pm' ... ?
or could be the wrong aircraft
The object makes this path across the sky

that's what I meant to ask earlier, but forgot

It's easy to assume that the video was filmed in landscape mode, with the lower edge of the picture horizontal, but you're saying it wasn't?

Note this says the orientation stays the same, but not that it's horizontal.

For it to be horizontal, since the sky rotates, the time would need to be off by a large amount, right?
or could be the wrong aircraft
This was my attempt, with the skychart taken from in-the-sky.org with location as Alexandria.

Google Earth Pro has the night sky. It is possible to fit the KML track into it. Here is my first attempt from the place called Rock Hill and a slightly earlier time than the one we were given:

This can be refined.

The Skinwalker Ranch shows are reasonably popular, and therefore lucrative, TV programs. They're not documentaries, they're not educational, and they're not really about investigating UFOs or other anomalous phenomena- just like WWE shows aren't really about bitter rival streetfighters engaged in combat to determine who's best.
I generally agree with you, the show looks awful, which is why I've never watched it. I have, however, experienced some of these types of things first hand, with other people, so I'm not nearly as dismissive as you are. Regardless, as I said in my previous comment, it's not worth discussing. I'm far more interested in the changing relative positions of the lights and modeling that.

Post in thread 'What kind of aircraft displays these kind of lights?' https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wh...splays-these-kind-of-lights.13141/post-300655

I generally agree with you, the show looks awful, which is why I've never watched it. I have, however, experienced some of these types of things first hand, with other people, so I'm not nearly as dismissive as you are. Regardless, as I said in my previous comment, it's not worth discussing. I'm far more interested in the changing relative positions of the lights and modeling that.

Post in thread 'What kind of aircraft displays these kind of lights?' https://www.metabunk.org/threads/wh...splays-these-kind-of-lights.13141/post-300655

Shoot me a message if you want, but I don't want to get sidetracked from the analysis at hand.

Shoot me a message if you want, but I don't want to get sidetracked from the analysis at hand.
Oh my apologies, I meant in a separate thread-good on you for being so circumspect about keeping on topic, unlike my adhd self .

A refined fitting of the tanker track into the starry sky on Google Earth Pro. Red and blue stars are positions of the "starship" object relative the identifiable stars at 0:14 and 0:44, respectively. The camera location (31°26'52.88"N 92°34'17.05"W) determined by trial and error for the given plane altitude is at a place called Rock Hill.

The red star position coincides with that of the tanker at 02:19:50 UTC; the plane icon shows the tanker position at 02:20:49 UTC (that is, these two points are about 59 sec apart, or about twice the time interval between the red and blue star points, 30 sec apart). Thus the "starship" speed matches that of the tanker.

The camera clock appears to be about 3 minutes fast, compared to the time derived from this fitting. If we can identify the satellite that passed near the blue star point in the opposite direction at about 02:20:20 UTC (see my post #77 above), the solution will be complete.

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I have, however, experienced some of these types of things first hand
Same here.
Just pointing out that the linked-to video is perhaps not a good basis for us to start adopting the hypothesis that when we see aviation nav lights, it might be a camouflaged UFO.

Like your good self, I think the guys and gals using plane-tracking software, astrometry, etc. etc. are doing a great job on this.

I simply cranked up the mids and highs in Final Cut Pro X. There appears to be a treeline near the end of the video. And at one point (in the unstabilized video) around 31Secs 09Frames in, a light, possibly a star, is briefly occluded by part of the object. I'm wondering, and I'm no expert at this by any stretch, if the tree line means it's close to the horizon near the end of the video and if that helps. I was unable to discern any structure in the object.

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if the tree line means it's close to the horizon near the end of the video
that depends entirely on how close the camera is to the treeline, and how high the trees are

since it looks like the trees have big structure, and since the aircraft's motion in 2D doesn't seem slowed, the trees are probably fairly close

the star identification provided us with a value of 42⁰ apparent altitude as it passed Cepheus, so not very close to the horizon (~0⁰ app. alt.) at all

P.S. In the post editor, click the symbol for the attached image and choose "Insert..." then "Full image" to have it displayed in your post.

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I oriented the satellite pass with the 2s stars Alfkirk and Cef 11 to get a better direction/path for it.

With this in mind and expanding the 2 satellites are maybe potentials, NOAA 19 and possibly jlin-01 gaofen 3j

Would anyone have links to relevant TLEs for these?

if the tree line means it's close to the horizon near the end of the video and if that helps.
The deduced camera location is an opening in a wooded area. The 'tree line' is likely to be treetops around it.

that depends entirely on how close the camera is to the treeline, and how high the trees are

since it looks like the trees have big structure, and since the aircraft's motion in 2D doesn't seem slowed, the trees are probably fairly close

the star identification provided us with a value of 42⁰ apparent altitude as it passed Cepheus, so not very close to the horizon (~0⁰ app. alt.) at all

P.S. In the post editor, click the symbol for the attached image and choose "Insert..." then "Full image" to have it displayed in your post.
He has made a daytime video of his location showing the tree line

At around the time OP recorded the planes were transitioning from NE to E sand lightly South a min or so either side is a different between NE and E.

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