you dont send them, you film them in place the next morning. the bomb guys may not be able to tell depending on what pieces are left, but i doubt you need a lab because metal is metal. like how airplane guys can sometimes tell if pieces of plane came off a certain type of aircraft etc.
If they were confident that the hospital was damaged by an Israeli airstrike, Hamas could have documented the recovery of fragments using phones to record their collection and storage.
what's your basis for that claim?
The UN relief agency for Palestine refugees, UNWRA, currently has 13,000 national and international staff, most of them refugees themselves, in Gaza and nearly 4,000 in the West Bank.
In addition, hundreds of employees continued working for other UN agencies.
The World Food Programme (WFP) and UNRWA were coordinating the distribution of bread to displaced people in the shelters in Gaza.
The main UN agency working in Gaza says it will be forced to halt its aid operations later today due to a lack of fuel.
The UN has warned its main agency working in Gaza will be forced to halt its aid operations for its civilians due to fuel shortages.
https://twitter.com/UNRWAAt least 11 UN staff and personnel, as well as 30 students at UN schools, have been killed in the Gaza Strip since Hamas terrorists launched their devastating shock attack on Israel, a spokesman said Wednesday. “30 UNRWA students have also been killed and another eight have been injured,” she added.
Yes I’m aware the UN and in particular UNRWA has been in Gaza for many decades and has been critical to Palestinian society. I don’t know why you think that in the midst of this horrific siege, any UNRWA worker would be willing, able, equipped to accept, transport, safeguard bomb fragments.
You asked for evidence for my claim that there were UN personnel "on the ground",
Von Braun and team joked that the V2 had a radius of the height of the rocket, as it so frequently fell straight from the gantry without blasting off at all. When one landed across the Mexican border in Juarez, enterprising salesmen stripped junk appliances of anything metallic they could sell as "rocket parts".
I guess I wasn’t clear. You said there are UN workers *who could be given the evidence.* I was asking for evidence of that claim. Anyway, I agree with your other points
To be fair, relief agencies are there to give relief, not forensic evidence. In the midst of a humanitarian crisis, ascribing blame is not their raison d'être.
you keep mentioning this, where did you read they know where the launch site was?
can you line it up with the al jezeera vid? (camera 3) . i cant do 3d spatial stuff from different directions well.
Do you dispute that we see the *first* ground explosion on the Bat Yam video, or that that explosion happens in Gaza City?
Article: 2 days ago
But we have not seen any evidence of weapon fragments being recovered and there has been no significant update from officials in Gaza about their investigation.
Hamas told the New York Times that the missile had disintegrated beyond recognition. "The missile has dissolved like salt in the water. It's vaporised. Nothing is left," said Ghazi Hamad, a senior Hamas official.
Experts have said it is extremely unusual for a blast site such as this not to yield debris of this kind.
Former UN war crimes investigator Marc Garlasco tweeted: "In 20 years of investigating war crimes this is the first time I haven't seen any weapon remnants. And I've worked three wars in Gaza."
Article: OCTOBER 25, 2023
U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that they used signals intercepts, multiple video sources, photographs and geolocation technologies to arrive at a "high confidence" assessment that Israeli munitions were not the source of the deadly blast at Gaza's Al-Ahli hospital last week, laying out new details about an incident that has inflamed tensions across the Middle East.
....
Secondly, they said multiple flight videos of the launch indicated that the rocket was launched from within the Gaza strip and traveled northeast. Within seconds of its launch, officials said the "fluctuating intensity" of the rocket's plume suggested an unstable motor combustion, which was followed by one object hitting the ground, and was soon followed by a second.
"Our conclusion is that there was a catastrophic motor failure that likely occurred, which separated the motor and the warhead," one of the officials said. "The warhead landed in the hospital compound, and that was the second explosion, and a much bigger one."
This would seem to imply that the fragment was still under power. This could solve the timing problem.
I think everyone has agreed on this section in bold. The initial Hamas report, (and Internet rumors), that this was a large high explosive munition is not credible.
Which would happen In too few seconds, we agree here, to be credible, due to the altitude and the timing; if we assume objects falling.
This would seem to contradict the first paragraph I quoted above.
I believe that report would've been based on the hundreds of casualties reported, which was mistaken for the number of dead—we agreed above that a proper warhead would have caused that kind carnage, but as seen by daylight we now know that (thankfully) didn't happen.
Your scenario - that you've identified the ground explosion at the hospital in the Camera 1 video - is not credible. I would say it isn't even theoretically possible.
That wasn't my question...?
What about the single rocket just to the left (east) of center?
Even though the launch sites are hidden below the horizon, it's clear this one rocket was not launched from the same site as the Qassams on the right side (West) of the frame.
Was it launched from Gaza or Israel? I can't tell.
`
About WSJ video
The WSJ states that it was a long range rocket launched from Gaza on a NE trajectory toward Israel. It turned to the west and exploded. A fragment caused the explosion at the hospital.
True?: I now consider this very doubtful.
As previously explored here, the timing isn't right. This distant view shows that this rocket was too high when it exploded for pieces to reach the ground in such a short time.
I have no confidence in their assertion the crater was caused by something coming in from the east. Too many unknown variables for such a definite conclusion. And I don't think it fits in with the direction the rocket fuel traveled.
I'm going back to my first, quick speculation. Connecting this visible rocket in the sky to the explosion seconds later was a post hoc error.
The Camera 1 video, and the line of sight I drew on the Google Earth Map, support the IDF identification of the Qassam rocket launch site: 3.2 miles to the SW of the hospital.
I speculate that an unseen Qassam artillery rocket from that launch site was responsible. In my speculative scenario, it likely failed very shortly into boost phase. From then on it was unseen because there was no rocket exhaust to see. It continued on due to inertia, but at a relatively low speed. It tumbled and fractured. The fragments followed an uneven trajectory because of aerodynamic forces on the unstabilized fragments. Two unseen fragments hit the ground and exploded. There might have been more fragments, but they were inert. The largest fragment hit the hospital driveway from almost due west and rocket fuel continued due east because of inertia. This accelerant set fire to the cars to the SE, E, and NE. The warhead also played a part. Possibly turning over the nearest car. Possibly adding atomized gasoline to the fireball.
That's my best guess. Only speculation.
That was an early speculation. Maybe based on the intercepted conversation.
This is the updated version. But I'm not certain if this is an accurate version or just an artist's concept:
The launch site is here: 3.2 miles from the impact point in the driveway.
please lmk what is "muddled" about this question and i will try to clarify:
Suffering succotash, son. If you don't know, then how can I explain? At this point, we're just bandying words. Maybe Metabunk isn't for you.
Maybe you are right.
[snip for politeness] I will break down my compound question for you:
If you watch the video and consider the chronology, you will find it very difficult to say "no" to either question. This refutes your argument that it is not possible for the Bat Yam camera to show the *second* ground explosion. Incidentally there is even a third explosion in Gaza visible from bat yam. it occurs very shortly after the rocket barrage stops. Alright bye.
which is where the glow happened.
That describes the type of fuel used in these Qassam-type artillery rockets.
