Tree and other plant problems as evidence for chemtrails?

[WeedWhacker]

It does what now?

Related:

Remember the giant hole in the Earth's ozone layer? Scientists say it's shrinking a little, thanks in part to the elimination of chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, beginning in the 1980s.

For the first time in 35 years, scientists have confirmed a statistically significant increase in the amount of ozone, which shields us from skin cancer and protects crops from sun damage.

Content from External Source

Source

Reduction in CFCs. That is the gist of the article.

 

[Belfrey]

Reduction in CFCs. That is the gist of the article.

Well, yeah. But what's this about SRM helping the ozone layer? If anything, there's concern that it could harm the ozone layer if some forms of SRM were implemented. (e.g.
The impact of geoengineering aerosols on stratospheric temperature and ozone).

 

[Igrokush1]

Mikec, I replied on the other thread by accident. Your wiki reference is specifically to the inhibition of that enzyme. Look into GMO crops, and it will shed a more specific light on how they work. What I was initially implying was that chemicals of concentration clog stomates and damage plant tissue. Plain and simple. You can argue that fact all day but it doesn't change the fact that I have done it personally. I was not referring to how roundup kills weeds. Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

 

[Igrokush1]

Mikec, I replied on the other thread by accident. Your wiki reference is specifically to the inhibition of that enzyme. Look into GMO crops, and it will shed a more specific light on how they work. What I was initially implying was that chemicals of concentration clog stomates and damage plant tissue. Plain and simple. You can argue that fact all day but it doesn't change the fact that I have done it personally. I was not referring to how roundup kills weeds. Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

Big apology mikec, my response was intended for David Fraser on bugs and plants

 

[deirdre]

Mikec, I replied on the other thread by accident. Your wiki reference is specifically to the inhibition of that enzyme. Look into GMO crops, and it will shed a more specific light on how they work. What I was initially implying was that chemicals of concentration clog stomates and damage plant tissue. Plain and simple. You can argue that fact all day but it doesn't change the fact that I have done it personally. I was not referring to how roundup kills weeds. Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

hmmm.. maybe you could provide, at least, the OCCASIONAL link or scientific source for all this 'stuff' you are 'saying', so the layman reading can verify some of your assertions?

 

[Igrokush1]

hmmm.. maybe you could provide, at least, the OCCASIONAL link or scientific source for all this 'stuff' you are 'saying', so the layman reading can verify some of your assertions?

Ok I'll work on it. Things about plants and plant pathology, GMO's etc I learned in school, and I guess I'm old fashioned but I use books. So here is my source: California Master Gardener Handbook, University of California, Agriculture and Natural Resources(ANR) Dennis R.Pittenger, Editor, publication 3382. Quite honestly I do not rely on the internet for my knowledge, I read books, took classes, work in the field here in redding with the USDA doing seasonal work as an insect trapper, own my own nursery, work in a tissue culture lab, am organically certified by the County of Shasta to sell vegetable stock. So any questions about any of those areas I speak from day to day events, like GMO's. I'm currently attempting to sequence the rosemary genome, so I can splice it into cannabis for a pest barrier.

 

[Igrokush1]

I looked at that link and it said BLANK

Well, yeah. But what's this about SRM helping the ozone layer? If anything, there's concern that it could harm the ozone layer if some forms of SRM were implemented. (e.g.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/045108/pdf/1748-9326_4_4_045108.pdf)

 

[Igrokush1]

It's m

Related:

Remember the giant hole in the Earth's ozone layer? Scientists say it's shrinking a little, thanks in part to the elimination of chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, beginning in the 1980s.

For the first time in 35 years, scientists have confirmed a statistically significant increase in the amount of ozone, which shields us from skin cancer and protects crops from sun damage.

Content from External Source

Source

Reduction in CFCs. That is the gist of the article.

In my opinion, it's not ALL due to CFC's. There are other factors out there like the carbon footprint for one. Besides, we know what they let us know, the rest is for us to find out. That's why we are here right? Does anybody think everything that goes public in an article the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?? I don't.

 

[Igrokush1]

It's m

In my opinion, it's not ALL due to CFC's. There are other factors out there like the carbon footprint for one. Besides, we know what they let us know, the rest is for us to find out. That's why we are here right? Does anybody think everything that goes public in an article the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?? I don't.

Also, what scientists said that? Names and background? My bell peppers this year had super sun damage. On one side, the afternoon side. Sure I can provide pics of sun scorch if requested.

 

[derwoodii]

Arborist here 30 plus years planting and caring for urban forest populations of over 100.000 and planting up to 4000 PA.

Over that time I've seen many tree growth pressures and environmental influences ranging from drought, pollution, pests, pathogens, unprecedented heat wave & urban impacts vandals and construction. But i not ever observed any tree harm arise from Aluminum or declining planet climate temperatures.

 

[Trailblazer]

Mikec, I replied on the other thread by accident. Your wiki reference is specifically to the inhibition of that enzyme. Look into GMO crops, and it will shed a more specific light on how they work. What I was initially implying was that chemicals of concentration clog stomates and damage plant tissue. Plain and simple. You can argue that fact all day but it doesn't change the fact that I have done it personally. I was not referring to how roundup kills weeds. Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

You seem to be confused about what Roundup is. It's a weedkiller (herbicide) not a "bug killer". Roundup-ready plants are resistant to it, so you can spray the field and the weeds are killed but the crop isn't.

One of the reasons Roundup is such a useful weedkiller is that it is specific to plants. It doesn't harm mammals etc. Obviously you shouldn't drink it, but it's pretty non-toxic stuff as garden chemicals go.

 

[Belfrey]

Ok I'll work on it. Things about plants and plant pathology, GMO's etc I learned in school, and I guess I'm old fashioned but I use books. So here is my source: California Master Gardener Handbook, University of California, Agriculture and Natural Resources(ANR) Dennis R.Pittenger, Editor, publication 3382. Quite honestly I do not rely on the internet for my knowledge, I read books, took classes, work in the field here in redding with the USDA doing seasonal work as an insect trapper, own my own nursery, work in a tissue culture lab, am organically certified by the County of Shasta to sell vegetable stock. So any questions about any of those areas I speak from day to day events, like GMO's. I'm currently attempting to sequence the rosemary genome, so I can splice it into cannabis for a pest barrier.

Are you trying to establish yourself as an authority with the above? Because frankly, your posts have been all over the place, with a lot of information that's half-right, false, or bizarrely irrelevant. And you have a real habit of saying, "I'll post a paper about it," and then failing to do so. If you're claiming the CA Master Gardener Handbook as your source, please give a page number and quote where it says any of the following:

-A single species known as "the rust mite" is a significant pest on everything from cannabis to oak trees across the US.
-RoundUp (glyphosate) is used to kill bugs.
-SRM "helps the ozone repair itself."

I fixed the link to the ozone paper, BTW.

 

[Belfrey]

Also, what scientists said that? Names and background? My bell peppers this year had super sun damage. On one side, the afternoon side. Sure I can provide pics of sun scorch if requested.

From the link:

NASA scientist Paul A. Newman, who co-chairs an ozone assessment by 300 scientists that takes place once every four years... chief scientist for atmospheres at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

Content from External Source

From NASA:

Paul studies Earth's atmosphere and, particularly, the ozone layer. He is a leader in the use of airplanes for atmospheric research, and is the chief scientist for Atmospheres in the Earth Sciences Division at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

Newman is currently a co-chair of the Scientific Assessment Panel for the Montreal Protocol, the landmark international treaty banning ozone-depleting substances to protect Earth's ozone layer.

A native of Seattle, Newman graduated from that city's O'Dea High School and earned a bachelor's degree in physics at Seattle University. He completed his doctorate in physics at Iowa State University. Newman arrived at NASA Goddard in 1984 as a postdoctoral researcher, and then worked for several years as science contractor. He became a civil servant scientist in 1990.

Content from External Source

Sorry about your scorched peppers and all.

 

[deirdre]

Ok I'll work on it. Things about plants and plant pathology, GMO's etc I learned in school, and I guess I'm old fashioned but I use books. So here is my source: California Master Gardener Handbook, University of California, Agriculture and Natural Resources(ANR) Dennis R.Pittenger, Editor, publication 3382. Quite honestly I do not rely on the internet for my knowledge, I read books, took classes, work in the field here in redding with the USDA doing seasonal work as an insect trapper, own my own nursery, work in a tissue culture lab, am organically certified by the County of Shasta to sell vegetable stock. So any questions about any of those areas I speak from day to day events, like GMO's. I'm currently attempting to sequence the rosemary genome, so I can splice it into cannabis for a pest barrier.

I'm ok with books. page numbers, photos of the quote, scanning etc.

the California Master Gardener Handbook has all this info on GMo's and chemtrails you are talking about too?

but the 'soil' chapter is online. if that helps you find links and quotes. http://books.google.com/books?id=Wh...q=California Master Gardener Handbook&f=false

 

[Belfrey]

Igrokush1, over in a different thread, you posted this:

mikec, what I'm saying is that ANY chemical of concentration will fry foliage, to put it simply. Any yes, in fact, roundup kills bugs without killing plants. It's called roundup ready crops. They are GMO's. A very common term in the horticultural community. They involve the coding of genes, and with the proper sequence, another gene from a completely different species is spliced in using a 'gene gun' which uses gold coated pellets to permeate the cell wall in order to get the gene in. I'm sure you have heard of Monsanto, he's not a fictional name. Watch videos of his productions, and they may more clearly explain how roundup kills bugs without killing plants.

Most people here have heard of Monsanto (which is a company name, not a "he") and many of us know a bit about GMOs. And anyone with even a passing familiarity with the topic can see your error here.

As has been repeatedly explained to you, RoundUp (glyphosate) is an herbicide. It's used to kill plants, not bugs - and it's very broad-spectrum, capable of injuring most types of plants if it contacts absorptive tissue. "Round-Up Ready" crops are genetically-modified versions of plants such as corn or soybeans that are tolerant of glyphosate, so that the herbicide can be sprayed over them to kill the weeds on the field (but not the crops). It's not used as an insecticide (bug-killer). There is the possibility of selecting for herbicide resistance in the target weed populations (see here for example), but insect pest resistance is not an issue there.

There are other GMOs which do target insect pests. A common example would be "Bt corn," maize plants which have genes inserted that allow them to produce a protein normally produced by Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), which is toxic to many species of Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths, including maize pests such as the European corn borer or western corn rootworm), but is non-toxic to most other animals. This is intended to reduce the need for conventional insecticides, although there is the potential for resistance to the Bt toxin to develop in the insect populations (lots of literature on this - see here for example).

GMOs are a thing. Round-up Ready crops are examples of them. Other GMOs target insects. They aren't the same thing.

 

[scombrid]

Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago.

Actually most food products, whether containing corn syrup or corn meal, contain GMO corn.

It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

Roundup is a herbicide.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Besides, we know what they let us know, the rest is for us to find out. That's why we are here right?

No. And, no.

We are here to de-bunk....not add bunk.

 

[Cairenn]

And many farmers in the US, are reporting record harvests this year. Crop yields are way up since even the 80s.

 

[Trailblazer]

Actually most food products, whether containing corn syrup or corn meal, contain GMO corn.

In the US. Here in the UK, GMOs are banned from being grown. They are not banned outright from use in food, but most retailers have their own voluntary bans.

 

[David Fraser]

Mikec, I replied on the other thread by accident. Your wiki reference is specifically to the inhibition of that enzyme. Look into GMO crops, and it will shed a more specific light on how they work. What I was initially implying was that chemicals of concentration clog stomates and damage plant tissue. Plain and simple. You can argue that fact all day but it doesn't change the fact that I have done it personally. I was not referring to how roundup kills weeds. Ever heard of roundup ready corn? It's used today primarily for fuel sources as well as livestock feed, unfortunately. It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

The link I provided for was for the enzyme glyphosate acts on which is present in plants but is not present in "bugs". That is why it does not kill bugs and has nothing to do with GM crops outside of some are resistant to glyphosate but they still have the enzyme.

However I would like to address your point on aluminium toxicity. You are claiming that it is particles of aluminium that are causing tree damage, not through the roots but through the leaves. Your claim is that they block stomata and cause leaf damage. Now I agree that air pollution the form of dust can block stomata and cause a number of growth problems, especially chemically active dusts like cement (Taken from "Farmer, A. Managing Environmental Pollution (1997) London: Routledge) and this would not be species specific, it would be on all plants. However for that to occur the dust needs to coat the leaf and is visible and even then plants, especially trees, are resilient to particle pollution. As you will be aware trees are planted in urban areas with poor air quality as they have an amazing ability to remove a great deal of the PM2.5 and PM10 particles in the air. (I apologise for the internet reference as I don't have a text to hand).

The removal of PM2.5 by urban trees is substantially lower than for larger particulate matter (particulate matter less than 10 microns -- PM10), but the health implications and values are much higher. The total amount of PM2.5 removed annually by trees varied from 4.7 metric tons in Syracuse to 64.5 metric tons in Atlanta, with annual values varying from $1.1 million in Syracuse to $60.1 million in New York City

Content from External Source

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130619164708.htm

So can I ask. If it is specificially aluminium particles that are causing issues where is it? Is there a dust formed on the leaves of all the plants everyday? At the end of the day I am not sold by your claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly: where is all this aluminium? If airborne aluminium was present at levels that would harm plants, it would be setting off alarms at every air quality monitoring station in the land. That just isn't happening. As I have previously linked here, aluminium levels even in the heavily air-trafficked southeast of England are measured in nanograms per cubic metre. (1 nanogram is about the mass of a single human cell). And what aluminium there is is easily explained by windblown soil and rock dust.

 

[MikeC]

Geez
mikec, what I'm saying is that ANY chemical of concentration will fry foliage, to put it simply.

that's nonsense. There are many chemicals that do nothing to crops - most of those in soil and air for starters......

in fact, roundup kills bugs without killing plants. It's called roundup ready crops.

Except roundup is a herbicide - not an insecticide....it kills weeds!!

completely not sure why this is at all relevant tho.

 

[Igrokush1]

Roundup also kills pests, and pathogens, like fusarium a spore that enters soil web.mit.edu/demoscience

that's nonsense. There are many chemicals that do nothing to crops - most of those in soil and air for starters......



Except roundup is a herbicide - not an insecticide....it kills weeds!!

completely not sure why this is at all relevant tho.

 

[Igrokush1]

Try it yourself, it'll kill bugs

that's nonsense. There are many chemicals that do nothing to crops - most of those in soil and air for starters......



Except roundup is a herbicide - not an insecticide....it kills weeds!!

completely not sure why this is at all relevant tho.[/QUOTE

 

[MikeC]

Actually as far as I can see roundup is thought by many anti-GMO people to cause fusarium to multiply - but it seems there is no evidence of any major effect, beneficial or otherwise, of roundup on fusurium

 

[MikeC]

Try it yourself, it'll kill bugs

Yes I'm sure they can drown in it.

Perhaps you should do some more research on glysophate - I recommend starting with the wiki page - there are lots of references off it.

 

[deirdre]

Roundup also kills pests, and pathogens, like fusarium a spore that enters soil web.mit.edu/demoscience

thanks for a link. except I cant find it. am I looking under the 'monsanto' file?



*you can copy paste 'quotes from external sources' by either clicking the 'x' icon above, or surrounding the text with the tags
[Ex] the quote here[/Ex]

 

[Igrokush1]

Yes it could have - but that isn't what the contrail is showing.

You'll find it a lot simpler if you stop trying to make everything fit what you want it to show - start with what it DOES show.....and formulate conclusions from the evidence that does exist.

thanks for a link. except I cant find it. am I looking under the 'monsanto' file?



*you can copy paste 'quotes from external sources' by either clicking the 'x' icon above, or surrounding the text with the tags
[Ex] the quote here[/quote][/Ex]

no, it's labeled as roundup ready, and it's near the end of article regarding fusarium to save a looong read. Hence my point, roundup has other killing purposes, I posted it in detail earlier but may have been deleted

 

[Igrokush1]

Thank you I'll try. My phone I realize isn't very compatible with this page and often puts me elsewhere in mid-type. I'll work on it

[/noparse]

no, it's labeled as roundup ready, and it's near the end of article regarding fusarium to save a looong read. Hence my point, roundup has other killing purposes, I posted it in detail earlier but may have been deleted[/QUOTE]

 

[Trailblazer]

no, it's labeled as roundup ready, and it's near the end of article regarding fusarium to save a looong read. Hence my point, roundup has other killing purposes, I posted it in detail earlier but may have been deleted

Here is what it says:

The OCA also claims that Monsanto's Roundup herbicide has been found to aid the spread of fusarium head blight in wheat. Wheat infected with fusarium head blight is unsafe for human or animal consumption.

Content from External Source

Far from killing fusarium, it has been claimed that Roundup encourages the growth of fusarium!

And this belongs in the "Plant effects" thread, not here.

 

[deirdre]

Here is what it says:

The OCA also claims that Monsanto's Roundup herbicide has been found to aid the spread of fusarium head blight in wheat. Wheat infected with fusarium head blight is unsafe for human or animal consumption.

Content from External Source

thanks trail. so the link is http://web.mit.edu/demoscience/Monsanto/players.html

 

[MikeC]

Hence my point, roundup has other killing purposes,...

that just isn't true - it may well kill things - lots of things do that - but it's PURPOSE is to kill weeds.

 

[David Fraser]

Try it yourself, it'll kill bugs

How?

 

[Cairenn]

It was taken off the market for human consumption years ago. Frost resistant soy beans? There are tons of GMO crops. It is a fact roundup kills bugs without killing plants in this situation.

Wow, you have several mistakes in that comment.

First, GMO corn is acceptable for humans. You are most likely confused by the problems with Starlink corn. It was Never approved for human consumption. It accidentally got into some products. There were folks that 'Claimed' that it made them sick. None of those claims were ever proven.

http://ccr.ucdavis.edu/biot/new/StarLinkCorn_new.html

Your 'tons of GMO crops', in numbers,yes, but at this time there are only 9 approved crops in the US. Dent corn, sweet corn (new the last 2-3 years), soybeans (no frost resistant ones), canola, papaya, some green and yellow squash (not heavily planted), sugarbeets, alfalfa and cotton.

The traits in these are of 3 types, Round up ready, BT, and resistance to ring spot virus and close relative in squash. The last 2 are in squash and papayas. Some of the others may be either single trait, like RR ready soy, or stacked like RR ready and BT in corn.

Round up does not kill bugs, unless they fall in it and drown. It kills most broadleaf and grassy and some woody plants. It does not have any effect on insects.