Tesla is Overrated - Debunking the Cult of Tesla
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Kilburnski
New Member
Did he invent the first practical AC induction motor, a very useful little gadget if you want to run an electric washing machine, record player or car?
About as much as Edison invented the lightbulb.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor
If Tesla was not there, we'd still have the motor, and probably pretty much everything else he is credited with. Someone has got to do the hard work, and someone is going to be first to market. But these things arise from the march of science.In 1824, the French physicist François Arago formulated the existence of rotating magnetic fields, termed Arago's rotations, which, by manually turning switches on and off, Walter Baily demonstrated in 1879 as in effect the first primitive induction motor.[1][2][3][4] Practical alternating current induction motors seem to have been independently invented by Galileo Ferraris and Nikola Tesla, a working motor model having been demonstrated by the former in 1885 and by the latter in 1887. Tesla applied for U.S. patents in October and November 1887 and was granted some of these patents in May 1888. In April 1888, the Royal Academy of Science of Turin published Ferraris's research on his AC polyphase motor detailing the foundations of motor operation.[4][5]
Just like we'd still have perfectly good lightbulbs now if Edison was never born and we'd still have general relativity if Einstein was never born.
Kilburnski
New Member
Thanks but how do you respond to this?
"He never claimed to have invented it & never did. He just invented a far more efficient way of generation & transmission using poly-phase systems. There are early examples dating back nearly 100 years before Tesla in quack medicine machines & scientific curio's. I have a machine on my shelf that pre-dates Nicola that uses high frequency AC created by a buz coil.
It dos not however dismiss the fact that Tesla did indeed paten very many devices many of which we still use to this day.
Ime looking at the huge list of patents sat in front of me whilst it write this.
Its a sad fact that much of Tesla's work has been usurped for crazy fringe theorists, that think the 1st & 3rd law of thermodynamics do not apply to Tesla's work. I am sure if Nicola where alive today her would not be amused about this. I do sens a little of that old logical fallacy here "appeal to authority"
Saying that because an authority on a subject state's something, it must therefore be true. Tesla was indeed a subject of derision during the peak of his working life. He had come up with many design improvements & new systems that potentially could have bankrupt the competition. So it is neither surprise or secret that a whisper campaign was instigated. Some fascinating stuff on that Edison Center page."
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
that's true, but the question is when?! If we had all those things invented 300 years ago would the world today be a better place with people more healthy living longer maybe we would already colonise other planets etc.?! They all deserve a praise and shouldn't be underestimated. It's not like someone said to Tesla or Einstein "hey just do the work and invent this and that". It's not a physical job.
I very much doubt that it would have added more than five years, had those people not been around. Technology advances like a wave. Some people are a bit ahead of it, but the vast body of the wave is still pushing forward.
That why you get so many things that were "independently invented", even things that have massive implications for the future of technology - like the transistor - were all things that were simply on the cusp of being discovered.
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
five years? In era without Internet and widely accessible literature?
In the grand scheme of things, a slight shift in the curve of history.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Let's imagine if Tesla had been born 1,000 years sooner. (Or, another person equal to his genius). In fact, there likely were some....but, there was this "situation" on this planet for several centuries that tended to inhibit progress:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EMzd3lOJY1U/T1BbU3bQGCI/AAAAAAAAAQY/fNdprCBku9I/s320/darkages-1.jpg
This is not to "bash" any one religion, but to show a "curve of history"....I daresay we are seeing some equally abhorrent trends in the modern news.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EMzd3lOJY1U/T1BbU3bQGCI/AAAAAAAAAQY/fNdprCBku9I/s320/darkages-1.jpg
This is not to "bash" any one religion, but to show a "curve of history"....I daresay we are seeing some equally abhorrent trends in the modern news.
Jason
Senior Member
Can the same be said for Isaac Newton and Einstein and their contributions to progression of mankind? With respect to their discoveries (more so Sir Newton's) being achieved within 5yrs if they never existed. There are some individuals throughout history who were decades ahead of their time, with respect to how they viewed the world and universe around them with limited abilities to observe the realities of what existed..
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Mackdog
Senior Member.
Apparently there is a huge Tesla machine deep in the woods close to Moscow that was recently restarted. It was built during the cold war and was used to test the effects of lightning on aircraft. It seems to me that maybe there was somewhat of a Tesla following in Russia if they built this thing.
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
No person exists in a vacuum, everyone is a product of their time in some way no matter how unconventional they may be compared to their contemporaries. Removing them to another time doesn't really work because they need the time they are in to be what they are.
Thomas
Member
When I was a kid my parents had this Dutch magazine called Bres (among all the Rudolf Steiner 'literature'), and it had an article about Tesla that captured my imagination, specially the Philadelphia experiment and the towers that would be build around the world to give us free energy. I remember really having a grudge on Edison for ripping of Tesla's work, as so I read.
I find it really interesting to see that Antroposophic's like my parents where also into this kinda stuff. I guess it supports all the vibrations, resonances and other esoteric woo energy's found in that scene.
I find it really interesting to see that Antroposophic's like my parents where also into this kinda stuff. I guess it supports all the vibrations, resonances and other esoteric woo energy's found in that scene.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
OK....for "Thomas"?
To my (American) eyes and ears, 'woo' is....well, bunk. (Which is what this site, "MetaBunk" is all about....debunking bunk).
I was interested in (if you can re-phrase?) this part:
I do not understand, fully, the word "Antroposophic" (or, the pronoun, "Antroposophic's"). Might be a translation issue, from your language, to English. Perhaps if you could link? I might better understand.
Thanks!! And, cheers!!
Thomas
Member
Well, my parents are hardcore 'antroposophics'. Antroposophy is a theosofical phylosophy developed by Rudolf Steiner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy
too much off topic, but I surely have a lot of experience seeing resonance therapists, homeopaths, bach remedy therapists, spiritual healers, astrologists and what not to cure me from asthma, i'll explain in more detail when the chance comes along. Essentially, I was born in a rabbit hole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy
too much off topic, but I surely have a lot of experience seeing resonance therapists, homeopaths, bach remedy therapists, spiritual healers, astrologists and what not to cure me from asthma, i'll explain in more detail when the chance comes along. Essentially, I was born in a rabbit hole.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Ah,,,,Ok. I've learned something new, so thank you!!
(Edit- and this might deserve its own thread topic...but is any of that philosophy related to Adolf Hitler's possible misinterpretation, and hence nazism....that we all saw, in history? No dis-respect meant here. Just an historical perspective question).
ETA also: And when I say "historical perspective", I invoke the concept of:
"Learn from our past mistakes, lest they be repeated in the future". (...to paraphrase...)
This borders into Human societal territory, and far from the topic, so sorry. However, some aspects of Nikola Tesla's life and work are societal so.....a bit of a "gray area", I suppose.
(Edit- and this might deserve its own thread topic...but is any of that philosophy related to Adolf Hitler's possible misinterpretation, and hence nazism....that we all saw, in history? No dis-respect meant here. Just an historical perspective question).
ETA also: And when I say "historical perspective", I invoke the concept of:
"Learn from our past mistakes, lest they be repeated in the future". (...to paraphrase...)
This borders into Human societal territory, and far from the topic, so sorry. However, some aspects of Nikola Tesla's life and work are societal so.....a bit of a "gray area", I suppose.
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Jason
Senior Member
This is true Pete, and arguably so most discoveries would've or could've happened regardless of their existence, but we will never know, will we?. But we mustn't forget the path that some discoveries put us on, and where we would or wouldn't be if it hadn't happened precisely when it happened.
Mackdog
Senior Member.
I recognize that name Rudolph Steiner. I think he was the one that came up with the idea of bio-dynamic gardening? I was actually into that for a little while there, but it seemed pretty complicated so I did not really pursue it much. I remember how he talked about burying cow horns with compost in them and then leaving them in the ground for a year or so then taking them out and making compost tea out of them. Also, I remember something about having to be naked while stirring the compost tea to make the cosmic forces enter the compost or something. Now, I don't want to make it sound like I'm making fun of him, because I think he may have been on to something with bio-dynamic gardening, but it just seemed a little strange and too involved for me lol.Well, my parents are hardcore 'antroposophics'. Antroposophy is a theosofical phylosophy developed by Rudolf Steiner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy
too much off topic, but I surely have a lot of experience seeing resonance therapists, homeopaths, bach remedy therapists, spiritual healers, astrologists and what not to cure me from asthma, i'll explain in more detail when the chance comes along. Essentially, I was born in a rabbit hole.
Svartbjørn
Senior Member.
The short answer Jason, is yes.. Newton wasnt the ONLY person working on the theories he's credited for.. there were several OTHERS doing the same thing.. some competitors, others were colleagues. Einstein was in the same boat:
In fact, there SOME evidence that Einstein wasnt the first to complete the formulas for Relativity, but another mathematician (who was a friend of Einsteins) and ended up allowing Einstein the credit. The two came to the conclusion at the same time virtually.. so if Einstein hadnt published, his friend would have (just cant remember his name off hand).
Concerning special relativity, the most important names that are mentioned in discussions about the distribution of credit are Albert Einstein, Hendrik Lorentz, Henri Poincaré, and Hermann Minkowski. Consideration is also given to numerous other scientists for either anticipations of some aspects of the theory, or else for contributions to the development or elaboration of the theory. These include Woldemar Voigt, August Föppl,Joseph Larmor, Emil Cohn, Friedrich Hasenöhrl, Max Planck, Max von Laue, Gilbert Newton Lewis and Richard Chase Tolman, and others. In addition, polemics exist about alleged contributions of others such as Olinto De Pretto, and Einstein's first wife Mileva Marić, although these are not considered to have any foundation by serious scholars.[1]
Concerning general relativity, there is a controversy about the amount of credit that should go to Einstein, Grossmann, and David Hilbert. Many others (such as Gauss, Riemann, William Kingdon Clifford, Ricci, and Levi-Civita) contributed to the development of the mathematical tools and geometrical ideas underlying the theory. Also polemics exist about alleged contributions of others such as Paul Gerber.
Thomas
Member
Weedwhacker, we should have another talk about that in a different thread, because to my understanding, Hitler loathed Steiner for a number of reasons, I loath him for other reasons. I did go to the 'vrije school', it is an antroposophical school, that teached the 'rassenleer' which could be easily linked to national socialisme but certainly isn't. I can elaborate on that to quite some (also esoteric) extent.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
That is interesting, and yes agreed....could merit its own thread. Of course, it's 'OT' here, easy to say.
Perhaps in "Chit-Chat"? (There could be aspects of this philosophy worthy of debate....).
RFMarine
Member
I wonder if there is any idea/hypothesis that tesla had in his line of work (of course there must be evidence that he believed it) but its now known to be false
Examples. Isaac newton believed in alchemy. Einstein was suspicious of quantum mechanics. Galileo believed in circular orbits.
Examples. Isaac newton believed in alchemy. Einstein was suspicious of quantum mechanics. Galileo believed in circular orbits.
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Wiki has some things -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Views_on_experimental_and_theoretical_physics
Views on experimental and theoretical physics
Tesla exhibited a pre-atomic understanding of physics in his writings;[160] he disagreed with the theory of atoms being composed of smaller subatomic particles, stating there was no such thing as an electron creating an electric charge (he believed that if electrons existed at all they were some fourth state of matter or sub-atom that could only exist in an experimental vacuum and that they had nothing to do with electricity).[14]:249[161] Tesla believed that atoms are immutable—they could not change state or be split in any way. He was a believer in the 19th century concept of an all pervasive "ether" that transmitted electrical energy.[162]
Tesla was generally antagonistic towards theories about the conversion of matter into energy.[14]:247 He was also critical of Einstein's theory of relativity, saying:
I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can have no properties. It might as well be said that God has properties. He has not, but only attributes and these are of our own making. Of properties we can only speak when dealing with matter filling the space. To say that in the presence of large bodies space becomes curved is equivalent to stating that something can act upon nothing. I, for one, refuse to subscribe to such a view.[163]
Tesla claimed to have developed his own physical principle regarding matter and energy that he started working on in 1892[14] and in 1937, at age 81, claimed in a letter to have completed a "dynamic theory of gravity" that "[would] put an end to idle speculations and false conceptions, as that of curved space."[164] He stated that the theory was "worked out in all details" and that he hoped to soon give it to the world.[165] Further elucidation of his theory was never found in his writings.[9]:309
Views on society
Tesla, like many of his era, became a proponent of an imposed selective breeding version of eugenics. His opinion stemmed from the belief that humans' "pity" had interfered with the natural "ruthless workings of nature," rather than from conceptions of a "master race" or inherent superiority of one person over another. His advocacy of it was, however, to push it further. In a 1937 interview, he stated:
... man's new sense of pity began to interfere with the ruthless workings of nature. The only method compatible with our notions of civilization and the race is to prevent the breeding of the unfit by sterilization and the deliberate guidance of the mating instinct ... The trend of opinion among eugenists is that we must make marriage more difficult. Certainly no one who is not a desirable parent should be permitted to produce progeny. A century from now it will no more occur to a normal person to mate with a person eugenically unfit than to marry a habitual criminal.[166]
Stevan Gvozdenovic
Member
showman? He was kind of introverted guy...
Will
Member
That doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't, or wouldn't have put on a show. You can be both a recluse/introvert yet also a showman when he felt it was required.
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We have to be extremely careful when it comes to history since its primarily spun politically and generally what is taught and tier1 and 2 isnt really 'totally' accurate if at all.
Next due to the huge infrastructure investments already in place in the than present day commercial grid what investor would want to tear it all down so Telsa can bring in his new wireless power transmitter? That cant be metered? What good samaritan is going to fund this multimillion dollar freebee?
That incidentally could easily transmit both power and messages to anywhere in the world with a lousy few hundred watts not to mention a few hundred thousand watts.
More importantly we had a war to wage and cant allow anyone to be capable of talking with people enmasse that we are supposed to hate!
The discovery of the rotating magnetic field is generally attributed to two inventors, the Italian physicist and electrical engineer Galileo Ferraris, and the Serbian-American inventor and electrical engineer Nikola Tesla.[1] Tesla claimed in his autobiography that he identified the concept in 1882 while Ferraris wrote about researching the concept and built a working model in 1885,[2] although there is no independent verification for either claim. In 1888 Tesla obtained a United States patent (U.S. Patent 0,381,968) for his design and Ferraris published his research in a paper to the Royal Academy of Sciences in Turin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotating_magnetic_field
Induction motors using a rotating magnetic field were independently invented by Galileo Ferraris and Nikola Tesla and developed in a three-phase form by Mikhail Dolivo-Dobrovolsky in 1889.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphase_system
Hmmm... how can I simplify this..... Ok, Teslas version of power is very different than what we are taught in our schools and in a manner of speaking converts our artificial method of creating power to a natural method.
Experiments were done back in the 70's to better understand it and most find it fascinating that the foil is attracted to bulb when lit using Tesla tech, (but not when using power from your wall socket). It should be very clear this is very different.
.......and it is harmless and wont kill the baby even while lighting a 100 watt 120 Volt AC bulb.
....and you see that 100 watt bulb? Using the hairpin method it only takes 2 wires the size of a hair to get the light to go to full brightness.
It seems reasonable to expect that this 'attraction' seen with the bulb would pull in more in than just just foil which is why I expect it was coined 'magnifying' transmitter and the claim of more power out than put in. (no not in the sense the over unity people view it in the sense of 'gathering' like solar)
Then a wireless remote controlled boat in 1898?
Congress seems to recognize that Tesla has not been given proper recognition and the supreme court did uphold the fact that Marconi was using 17 of teslas (transmission devices) patents declaring Tesla the true inventor of 'radio'.
The for those who are interested as a side note, one thing you will find with tesla devices; "They all work", and anyone with the appropriate understanding can build them with success. Though JP Morgan pulled the funding flushing Teslas dream and his greatest accomplishment down the tubes in exchange for commercial profits I have no reason to believe that should anyone build a full scale unit precisely as Tesla would have we would in fact connect our grid to the wheel of nature and have free and maintenance free energy.
Most people are not aware there is a voltage gradient that result in several hundred thousand volts above the earth. In other words If you were able to obtain a high enough charge density at 30,000 feet and run a wire to the ground you would get constant discharge to the earth.
Here are several experiments. (proof of concept)
[Admin: several hours of video removed, as per PG]
The point?
So we have harmless free energy, and even in the event of not free "no wires" to deal with, low maintenance electric cars without batteries, less pollution and I think a 24/7 lit sky would be nothing short of awesome, and it would get rid of all those street lights.
Yeh, some people are over zealous about Tesla, no doubt, but as far as recognition goes president Cleveland did throw the switch in Chicago.
As far as I am concerned Wardencliff should be reconstructed and a functioning tower built there in his honor. (even if we dont use it)
...and even if for no other reason than his life long true and honest devotion to the betterment of the general human condition over and above his own personal commercial gain. We owe the man his dream.
I disagree with anyone proposing Tesla is over rated.
disclaimer, the videos are not endorsement for the participants personal beliefs or politics and have posted them for those who want more info regarding tesla tech since you cant sign up for a class on these things and unfortunately there is no other way to learn about the realities Tesla was dealing with but by replicating his work.
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No you don't. It it worked, someone would have built it.
RFMarine
Member
\\Most people are not aware there is a voltage gradient that result in several hundred thousand volts above the earth. In other words If you were able to obtain a high enough charge density at 30,000 feet and run a wire to the ground you would get constant discharge to the earth.\\
most estimates I've read say that yes its around that voltage, but the amperage is small, making it impractical. Its there yes but impractical as a source of energy.
even if the amperage was high enough, a balloon with a 30,000 foot wire would be hard to build
most estimates I've read say that yes its around that voltage, but the amperage is small, making it impractical. Its there yes but impractical as a source of energy.
even if the amperage was high enough, a balloon with a 30,000 foot wire would be hard to build
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
I think what they mean by "free" energy is that there is no way of tracking who would receive the electrical energy produced by a hypothetical working Tesla tower. Apparently, all that is required to receive energy is a distant tower tuned to the same frequency as the transmitter and bingo... "free" energy to power your stuff. Tesla's original tower required a 200 kW generator to operate. So ya, the system is anything but free.
A big part of the conspiracy is the claim that since Tesla's "free" energy can't be made profitable, there is no incentive to build it. Although that doesn't prevent people from trying. Like these guys with their Indiegogo campaign.
It seems Tesla's dream has always been plagued by lack of funding.Let's Build a Planetary Energy Transmitter
Instantly. Wirelessly. Worldwide. We need your help to make it happen! And YOU have a chance to really change the world! Help us to make this wireless Tower become a reality!!! Let's have some GLOBAL fun!
Contribute--------------------->>>>>>>
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cloudspotter
Senior Member.
It seems Tesla's dream has always been plagued by lack of funding.
But thanks to Flexible Funding they're not going to be lacking.
MikeC
Closed Account
Looks to me as if it is very well known, and has been for decades - atmospheric electricity on wiki:
Eliminating, for the moment, consideration of the extremely dense charge populations that exist in the upper reaches of the atmosphere, a region called the ionosphere, filled with hot, dense, plasma gas whose ions give the ionosphere its name, we note that there is always some amount of unbound positive and negative, but net positive, electric charge in the atmosphere closest to the surface of the negatively charged Earth on a 'fine day'. When days are not so 'fine', the net unbound charge that exists in the clouds of thunderstorms can be exceedingly negative.
The 'fine day' net positive charge sets up an electric field between the negative Earth and the net positive charge in the air, and this electric field stores electrical energy. The positive charge acts by induction on the earth and electromagnetic devices.[2]
Experiments have shown that the intensity of this electric field is greater in the middle of the day than at morning or night and is also greater in winter than in summer. In 'fine weather', the potential, aka 'voltage', increases with altitude at about 30 volts per foot (100 V/m), when climbing against the gradient of the electric field.[3] This electric field gradient continues up into the atmosphere to a point where the voltage reaches its maximum, in the neighborhood of 300,000 volts. This occurs at approximately 30–50 km above the Earth's surface.[4
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