Skinwalker Ranch Carriage House Lights and Bird on a Sunny Day

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Slaughtering a cow or pig and putting the meat in a deep freeze was common practice. You usually had a pro do the butchering though.

Or the freezer may have been chock full of Swanson TV dinners.

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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Colm Kelleher stands inside a building on Skinwalker Ranch in this undated photo. (Courtesy of George Knapp)
https://www.military.com/daily-news...ranormal-birthed-pentagons-new-hunt-ufos.html

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Definitely the same building. The marks on the wall where the plaster is missing match, and the work bench is in the right place. Just looking the opposite way.

The hole in the wall behind Kelleher doesn't go all the way through in the older photo. But the video camera must have been very close to that hole. The angle is right and the height above the floor is right.

BTW, the video camera is definitely equipped with a short focal length lens - (wide angle lens). The kind typical of a GoPro or surveillance camera. So it is possible that it's right up against the wall. Or even attached to the wall. So still ambiguous.
 

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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
That's a lath and plaster wall with bits of rotten lath showing in the hole.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lath_and_plaster
Lath and plaster is a building process used to finish mainly interior dividing walls and ceilings. It consists of narrow strips of wood (laths) which are nailed horizontally across the wall studs or ceiling joists and then coated in plaster.
Lath.jpg


If you wanted to screw the camera, or a camera bracket, to the wall, you wouldn't want to screw it to crumbling plaster or rotten lath. So maybe you'd enlarge a hole in the lath and plaster - both wider and deeper - until you find something solid. Like a wood wall stud?

So maybe the camera is in the enlarged hole? Not outside the structure, but in a hole in the wall. You wouldn't want the edges to show. But maybe there are edges just out of view? Could there be threads of spider silk on the edges?
 
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NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
Very old electrical wiring. Remains of these circa 1920 wires also hang from the rafters.

Ya think? All the old wiring, called knob and tube, I ever worked with was black. While there does appear to be some old wiring hanging around the rafters, the diagonal wires all start at the ledger made of newer lumber at the top of the left wall and then run parallel to each other as they converge at 2 points on the floor only one of which is visible.


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Looking closer, these are clearly pieces of cable, or wire rope, that run through eyelets attached to the ledger and are then doubled back and clamped:

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They then converge at a point in front of the "freezer" that seems to be some sort of anchor in the ground, although it's hard to tell in the shadows:

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I would suspect they were added at some point after the picture you had with Kelleher in it, otherwise he'd have been tripping over them.

It's largely irrelevant I guess but is fun to check out and good practice. It also raises the question of why? Why use this system of cables and anchors to shore up the wall instead of just repairing it, or at least just use lumber bracing from the outside? Trying to keep the look of the spooky old outbuilding?



Wow! I do not remember the Chinese Style TV dinner. Turky, Mexican and Hungry Mans, but not the Chinese.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Yes, those diagonal wires are guy wires and not very well done. It's all poorly thought out and poorly executed.

As for the electrical wiring I was thinking it was crude DYI stuff put in an old ranch outbuilding in 1920. If you look closely you'll see straggly wires on the walls and hanging off the rafters.

If you download this and zoom in, you'll see wires in the rafters and just under the roof, and a wire that runs down the wall all the way to the back of the freezer.
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And here's a pile of wires:

wires.png
But maybe I'm all wet. Maybe that's just an old extension cord and the wires on the rafters are bailing wire. I'll leave it up to you.

If I really wanted to save that building I'd hire a pro. Maybe build a retrofit shear wall on the outside of that sagging wall. Then repair the wall. They haven't even done anything about the forge chimney leaning against it.

But maybe all the mundane, pragmatic construction workers swarming about, doing mundane, pragmatic things, talking in a Jersey accent about concrete and the best way to attach sills would take the magic and romance away. The spooks would be displeased by the diminished spookiness They would would turn up their spectral nose and move to a spookier building.

Or more to the point, TV viewers wouldn't get that proper spooky feel of an abandoned building. A few crude repairs, alright. But new construction? Might as well be a mundane office building on a Tuesday afternoon after lunch. Not spooky, dude. Ratings down.
 
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Ann K

Senior Member.
If I really wanted to save that building I'd hire a pro. Maybe build a retro fit shear wall, on the outside of that sagging wall, Then repair the wall. They haven't even done anything about the forge chimney leaning against the wall.
The building needs a new front, new windows, and complete new roof if it is to be a serviceable building for any serious purpose at all, although it's possible the side walls are in slightly better shape than the fish-eye lens makes them appear. It seems unlikely that awkwardly positioned cables would do a lot of structural good. Now, if it had been shored up by a rank amateur only for the purpose of having a place to look for supernatural "entities", I'd buy that, except that the cables don't even look taut... and cables to pull in a sagging wall wouldn't work well if attached to a board attached to the INSIDE of the wall, would they? I'd think they would just pull that new board away from the wall if any tension had been applied.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
theyre trying to keep this bit from popping out.
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mushy ground would make it harder to shore up from the outside. myself i would certainly try, vs banging a nail into anything under that roof!! i imagine it would be against the law for any legit contractor to go in that building in it's current state.
Colm Kelleher stands inside a building on Skinwalker Ranch in this undated photo. (Courtesy of George Knapp)
yea they probably just stuck it in the lath hole. you dont really have to attach it, just balance it in there :)
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
More photos
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There's an odd bit of metal there.
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Sorry, this screenshot is the best I can do.
Falling down. Is this before the crude repairs?
https://www.history.co.uk/shows/curse-of-skinwalker-ranch
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I think this photo is older than the one below.



The structure is straighter but the exterior looks worse for wear.
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FatPhil

Senior Member.
They have constant surveillance of several locations, hoping to see something anomalous. This was one of the best things they found over the years they have been doing it.
Do they have a reverse angle? If one side of the barn's interesting, why isn't the other side?

Irrelevant aside - just last night as I was walking through town I saw a strange streak of light shoot across the edges of my field of vision. I looked towards it, and it was immediately obvious that it was just a reflection from a car's headlights off the overhead tram power lines that were otherwise invisible against the night sky. That genuinely got me thinking whether such effects had been the source of bunk. The coincidence is somewhat amusing.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
what's more convenient, according to the above podcast reporting, Bigelow decided that nothing was actually visible ever and that the entity just made the witnesses see what they saw but in a hallucination type way. so..the cameras never got anything because it was never visible in the first place :)
An Australian documentary about such creatures: Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zdmqV2iDN8


(Spoiler: it's an English comedy sketch.)
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
Thanks for the info!
Here is the link:
Source: https://youtu.be/Q9Kwv_p2Cww
(I understand that my commentary and the video are both off the narrowly focused topic of the thread.)
OK, I suffered through this steaming pile of anecdotes (at a faster speed, so as not to prolong the misery), and I'm torn between (1) wondering how much of this is people interpreting some very thin number of strange events through a deeply religious lens, and (2) the more sinister question of the extent of pure cynical fakery on their part. It's within the power of anyone to claim weird misgivings and sudden weak spells, but add to that their pride in having a large amount of money invested in high-tech gadgetry, which could also give them the means by which to provide such things as ghostly voices on command.

How is one to take seriously a group of people that pooh-pooh their predecessor's claim of bulletproof werewolves, yet talk with apparent sincerity of spiritual journeys and wormholes and portals and multiple worlds and mysterious triangles?
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I don't know if this is apropos... You decide. They obviously have money, and "high-tech" stuff, but this is the way they "repaired" the sagging roof of the carriage house.

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Board A - the board holding up the joists
Board B - the vertical board holding up one end of Board A
Board C - the horizontal board on the floor

They bought Board A and Board B - they're new. They had some idea of jamming Board B under Board A by hand, but that didn't work because the roof is too heavy.

So they got an old floor jack from somewhere and picked up an old board from somewhere on the Ranch. That's Board C.

They rested Board C on the floor jack. They jacked up Board C until it lifted Board A high enough so they could jam Board B between the floor and Board A. They wanted to jam Board C between the base of Board B and the wall to give it some stability. But it didn't work because Board C was too short.

So they put the floor jack between Board B and Board C. But that didn't work because Board C was bending, so they put a rock under Board C. This got it to straighten out just enough. After some time they somehow got it to work.

And there it remains.

Does this say something about the mentality of this Group?
 

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yoshy

Member
(I understand that my commentary and the video are both off the narrowly focused topic of the thread.)
OK, I suffered through this steaming pile of anecdotes (at a faster speed, so as not to prolong the misery), and I'm torn between (1) wondering how much of this is people interpreting some very thin number of strange events through a deeply religious lens, and (2) the more sinister question of the extent of pure cynical fakery on their part. It's within the power of anyone to claim weird misgivings and sudden weak spells, but add to that their pride in having a large amount of money invested in high-tech gadgetry, which could also give them the means by which to provide such things as ghostly voices on command.

How is one to take seriously a group of people that pooh-pooh their predecessor's claim of bulletproof werewolves, yet talk with apparent sincerity of spiritual journeys and wormholes and portals and multiple worlds and mysterious triangles?
Maybe we should start a thread just for discussing new episodes of the basement office. I think it's quite entertaining while clearly showing how ridiculous the whole thing is. I really can't tell if these people are scammers or true believers or not.
deeply religious lens
Anecdotally, I've noticed there is a strong crossover between the UFO community and traditional/evangelical Christian communities.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
propping up a set

Explain this phrase. As in a theatrical/movie set? Or is this some carpentry jargon?
 
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NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
They rested Board C on the floor jack. They jacked up Board C until it lifted Board A high enough so they could jam Board B between the floor and Board A. They wanted to jam Board C between the base of Board B and the wall to give it some stability. But it didn't work because Board C was too short.

So they put the floor jack between Board B and Board C. But that didn't work because Board C was bending, so they put a rock under Board C. This got it to straighten out just enough. After some time they somehow got it to work.

Having done this maneuver many times myself, I think you're giving them a bit too much credit.

Board A as you call it is sorta acting as a top plate and board B is acting as a stud. However, if this was expected to hold up the roof structure, there should be a stud (board B) under each rafter along the length of the top plate (board A). Obviously, this is not what they did here, just one stud at the end, and I assume one at the other end. If they were short on boards to make additional studs with, they should have at least turned the top plate 90 degrees so that it was supporting the roof across the thicker section of the board.

I agree they used the old board (C) on the ground to lift the top plate and roof with the floor jack until they could install the stud, but I don't think they tried to use it as a kick brace at the base of the stud afterward. Unless there is rock wedged between the board on the ground and the base of the wall that's hard to see, board C is just lying on the ground, probably right where it fell after they let the jack down. No need to clean up.

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They don't know what they're doing and/or they're lazy. Or, giving the somewhat unique "cable shoring" system they installed, it's an attempt to keep a creepy old building standing with the least amount of visual clutter possible, so as to more easily capture floating orb entities. As @JMartJr alluded to above, they are trying to shore up a creepy old building to use it as a set.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
I've been thinking of ways I'd do it better... but in truth I would hire a pro. A real pro could do it more effectively and preserve the visual presentation at the same time. Maybe a Studio Carpenter or Set Designer. Someone who understands the requirements of a TV show. They might even build some kind of frame entirely on the outside to discreetly hold up the roof and walls.

They can't cry poverty. I think they're paranoid. They can't bring random people to the place because they don't want people seeing the place and talking about it. Or spreading gossip about the people in The Group. Or, Godferbid, file plans with the county and have an Inspector pay visits.

So likely some random peon unskilled Ranch Employee did the work.
 
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Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Do I see a rock? I think I do. Or the end of the rotten board that shattered when they tried to kick it down into place. Then maybe they laid a random piece of metal across it to maybe hold it down.
Board C and Rock.png



What were they going to do with the bricks?
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NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
Anecdotally, I've noticed there is a strong crossover between the UFO community and traditional/evangelical Christian communities.

In the case of Skinwalker Ranch, it's the Mormons. Bigelow, who purchased the ranch in the late '90s and set up his National Institute of Discovery Science at the ranch and contributed to Harry Reid's election is Mormon. Senator Ried, who help steer money to Bigelow's BASS for the AASWAP contract, is Mormon. I think Greenstreet is an ex-Mormon and Flugel, the current owner of the Ranch is a Mormon.
I think they're paranoid. They can't bring random people to the place because they don't want people seeing the place and talking about it. Or spreading gossip about the people in The Group.

Yeah, the last think they may want is contractor showing up to fix the out-building, and nothing strange happens!
What were they going to do with the bricks?
Who knows. My guess is that they were stacking them up and then putting board C on them at an angle and then trying to beat board C straight up and down, thereby lifting the sagging roof. When that didn't work, they brought in the floor jack and didn't bother to clean up the bricks.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
The joists are so primitive and rotten that they were splitting in half. It looks like they were originally made of two separate pieces haphazardly fixed together. There's nothing standard about them. I wonder if they were made of salvaged wood. It highlights how primitive the original construction was.

The joists have king posts that are sometimes off center from where the joists are fastened together. Maybe they laid the board the wrong way because they wanted to support the king posts with a board that's just as wide as the butt end of the king posts. Less likely to slip off? After all they aren't joined.
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Amateur though I am... It's fun to think of the way a Studio Carpenter and/or Set Designer might discreetly hold the roof up.

Set some laminated beams in concrete to act as studs just outside either end of the building. Use them to hold up a laminated beam running down the centerline of the building that holds up the joists. A beam that's been artificially aged to look like an old rough sawn beam. The beam actually passes through each wall to sit on the studs. But that could be made to look like original construction, I'd think.

Discreetly shore up the rotten splitting joists with some steel plates on the underside of each; running along the entire underside of the joists and perpendicular to the beam. It's the plates that are actually resting on the beam. If needed there could be hidden fasteners. Treat the surface of the plates with something so that they can pass as old wood and blend in the cracks with putty. In the dark and with a low resolution camera nobody would notice.

A laminated beam could easily span the length of that small building with no studs needed inside the building. After relieving them of the weight of the roof I think those walls could be easily and discreetly repaired. And the forge chimney could easily be straightened so it's not leaning against the wall.

Another option is to construct, from scratch, an entirely new set. A reproduction of the original building. But they do have occasional visitors...

Is this too cynical? But after all, it's really just a species of reality show. Fun fact: Pawn Stars was entirely filmed in a set, not inside the real Las Vegas Gold and Silver. Tourists would line up outside the real pawn shop but when they got in they didn't see Chumlee or the Old Man, etc. because they weren't there. (But Pawn Stars merchandise sure was.)

The question is... Are these people as cynical as the Pawn Star Crew (who are super cynical)? Or at some level do they believe their own malarkey?

Do they sort of mentally dance around the reality that they are treating this building as a set, but not really admit it to themselves? Would bringing in a set designer make them have to face this reality too starkly?
 

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Ann K

Senior Member.
Or, Godferbid, file plans with the county and have an Inspector pay visits.
Bingo! You might possibly be incorrect in assuming that they actually DO inspect construction in the back of beyond, but that occurred to me too, that any building inspector would recommend the bulldozer solution rather than any type of amateur fix-it on that wreck. Granted, I've seen some rather ramshackle barns on farms, but never as bad as that one.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
They can't cry poverty. I think they're paranoid. They can't bring random people to the place because they don't want people seeing the place and talking about it. Or spreading gossip about the people in The Group. Or, Godferbid, file plans with the county and have an Inspector pay visits.

Whoever owns Stonehenge needs to fix that up too, it's in a right state.
 

Mendel

Senior Member.
Whoever owns Stonehenge needs to fix that up too, it's in a right state.
Article:
1920:stonehenge-history-old-photographs (15).jpg

1958:stonehenge-history-old-photographs (12).jpg

Article:
For two weeks during September 2021, English Heritage carried out repairs to the lintels at Stonehenge, replacing old degraded cement mortar that was used in the late 1950s to prevent weathering and secure the stones in position.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
propping up a set

Explain this phrase. As in a theatrical/movie set? Or is this some carpentry jargon?
As in a movie, stage or tv set. You wouldn't run guy wires through the usable space of a building you were repairing, you render the space unusable. Using braces and tension wires out of camera/audience lines of sight is not unusual.

Looks like maybe the crew was called on to save a picturesque old ranch structure to look nice in the background of exterior shots?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Looks like maybe the crew was called on to save a picturesque old ranch structure to look nice in the background of exterior shots?
Homestead 2 is the money maker. it's where most of the stuff happens..like the bigfoot who came out of the dimension portal, and where their guys get all light headed and whoozy.

the garage is just across the small river from homestead 2, so is in alot of footage. and the tv show (ie aesthetics) is how this guy makes his money and pays the reality tv actors. I'm sure they will claim that if they disturb the building it will provoke the phenomenon of bad stuff (which is why they are so afraid to dig!)... although this makes no sense because if you want to document the phenomenon you need to provoke the phenomenon. :)
 

Ann K

Senior Member.
I'm sure they will claim that if they disturb the building it will provoke the phenomenon of bad stuff (which is why they are so afraid to dig!)... although this makes no sense because if you want to document the phenomenon you need to provoke the phenomenon.
I think "don't provoke the 'entity'" (spirit, ET, bulletproof werewolf, or whatever else they can come up with) is merely priming the viewer to be scared. It's just like the scout leader telling ghost stories around the campfire. I really cannot tell how much of this they believe themselves.

edit to add: Do they want to document it? The worst thing about photographing a phenomenon, from their standpoint, would be to find out it's something entirely mundane and easily explained. The whole enterprise comes crashing down at that point.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
I think "don't provoke the 'entity'" (spirit, ET, bulletproof werewolf, or whatever else they can come up with) is merely priming the viewer to be scared. It's just like the scout leader telling ghost stories around the campfire. I really cannot tell how much of this they believe themselves.

edit to add: Do they want to document it? The worst thing about photographing a phenomenon, from their standpoint, would be to find out it's something entirely mundane and easily explained. The whole enterprise comes crashing down at that point.
i think that security guy believes it. he rolls his eyes at alot of the orb footage etc, but his body language suggests he is actually afraid of "psychic" attacks. unless he's a better actor than i give any of them credit for. (sometimes you can see them or the guest stars trying hard not to smile)

edit: although...i might be confusing him with the maintenance guy as they look the same. he's [the maintenance guy] the one who had his skull detach from his head (whatever that means).. although i actually think he's faking it when he talks about it...so pretty sure i mean the security guy.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
Is this too cynical? But after all, it's really just a species of reality show.

I don't think so. We are speculating a bit and maybe a bit off topic, but I think it's good practice to look at stuff like this and see what we're being presented with. Is someone trying to fool us, or at least trying to cloud a mundane something, like sunlight hitting spider or worm silk, by presenting it in a creepy outbuilding on the notorious Skinwalker Ranch?

The building is likely real, not a constructed set piece. It was a working ranch of sorts, long before Knapp hyped it and got Bigelow to buy it and turn it into a paranormal hotspot. Current owner Flugel has hyped it more with the TV show.

The construction of the roof system is consistent with old buildings I've worked on. People in more remote places used what they had. Having said that, I think it now serves as a set piece or decoration for the ranch, thus the minimal amount of shoring needed to keep it from collapsing.

The question is... Are these people as cynical as the Pawn Star Crew (who are super cynical)? Or at some level do they believe their own malarkey?

That is the question, right? The books, Skinwalkers at the Pentagon and Hunt for the Skinwalker, both by George Knapp and Colm Kelleher (guy in the photo post #42) are bad reads. They feel like something from an old '60s ear men's magazine like Fate or True with lots of hyperbole and drama, kinda like a reality TV show. But they both have Kelleher in the middle of it all. Did Kelleher believe all of it, or was he content to go along to collect checks from Bigelow and book sales? Or somewhere in between?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Having said that, I think it now serves as a set piece or decoration for the ranch, thus the minimal amount of shoring needed to keep it from collapsing.
thus? no. the minimal amount of shoring is because they have no idea what they are doing. it's still gonna fall unless they do a better job, regardless if they are keeping it purely for an aesthetic show piece or they are keeping it because if you knock down haunted buildings the haunting goes away.

IF it was purely a showpiece they could totally rebuild the frame with nice new wood and just distress the wood that shows (or "box" the new wood in with a wrap of old 'wood sheets', and its super easy to replaster and make it look old as it does. It's not that hard, the wife in the main house could do if she watched 3 or 4 youtube videos. The outside roof you would want to just lie the original rotted pieces back on the top to keep the aesthetics good.

obviously the inside wouldnt look as "good/creepy" because the falling down wood is what gives it the look. But if i lived there, i could do a pretty good job of the cosmetics after i had a professional rebuild the frame work. I'd want @Leifer to help me of course because i hate brushing overhead work..dont have that male upper body strength and there's alot of beams and rafters!
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
I agree, I believe it is an old working building saved from collapse by workers using set-construction techniques.
Now that I think of it, there is the famous "Will you hold the Goddamn hammering!" scene in Bill Murry's Scrooged. The one doing the hammering is an older guy hammering eyelets with doubled over wire rope, exactly like we see in the old building were talking about. The wires are to support or hold up the flats. So, it does seem to be a set-construction technique.

I once took a set building class for fun at the local State University, but never came across the wire rope technique. I ended up building stage sets.

thus? no. the minimal amount of shoring is because they have no idea what they are doing.
Maybe. It could be what they know is set construction, not actual building. As a contractor, even if I was doing something really janky using what I had on hand, the use of wire cables would never cross my mind. And that amount of wire and wire clamps is just not something I, or most of my contractor buddies, would have laying around. But maybe set builder guys do, as @JMartJr suggested.

I'd want @Leifer to help me of course because i hate brushing overhead

Is Leifer a painter, or just a big, tall strapping lad that can reach the rafters without a ladder? I was always jealous of those guys.
 

FatPhil

Senior Member.
Now that I think of it, there is the famous "Will you hold the Goddamn hammering!" scene in Bill Murry's Scrooged. The one doing the hammering is an older guy hammering eyelets with doubled over wire rope, exactly like we see in the old building were talking about. The wires are to support or hold up the flats. So, it does seem to be a set-construction technique.
It's not a great solution to the problem, as it doesn't necessarily improve the load-bearing aspect much, if at all. It obviously massively improves resistence to Euler buckling by reducing the degrees of freedom at the top, which is probably irrelevant, and also reduces the moment of the weight at the base (better: reduces the amount by which the moment will increase by any lateral movement), which is probably the most important thing; but it does that at the expense of adding significantly more compressive load at the base.

From that, I'd conclude that their primary contstraint was "don't alter the exterior". Sitting here typing this in a building that's nearly 500 years old, and looking at the equally old and older buildings around town, it's obvious that the solution that works best for such problems - as measured by letting the buildings survive the longest - involves modifing the exterior.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Is Leifer a painter, or just a big, tall strapping lad that can reach the rafters without a ladder?
you still have to work overhead with a ladder. (and we'd set up scaffolding). yea, he does faux finishes (trompe l'oeil) for movie sets.

these are ceramic, but if the carpenter rounds off the wood edges...a little compound/wood filler, a little paint>
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Ravi

Senior Member.
So, do we agree the lights in the video (subject of this thread) to be:

1) faked?
or
2) a coincidental reflection from bug or web taken as "evidence"?

I don't believe their stories, nor do I see evidence.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
I vote 2, on the grounds that this really what it looks like, and that I'd expect something cooler in a fake from folks with that level of resources
 
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