OKC bombing? Why no threads?

Status
Not open for further replies.

JennerH

New Member
Am I just missing the thread on the Oklahoma City bombing. There seems to be no mention of it on this site. In my opinion, it has some of the most glaring inconsistencies of all the topics mentioned here.

1. Size of the bomb relative to resulting damages. General Ben Partin (a very competent source) did a study on this and has openly spoken of his lfindings. Please don't refer me to the Discovery Channels "studies" by New Mexico Tech. Seen them. The Discovery Channel is not a reputable source.

2. Numerous eyewitness accounts of another suspect seen with McVeigh on the days leading up to the bombing and on that same day.

3. The mysterious "suicide" of Terrance Leakey. He had cuts all over his body and the trajectory of the bullet that killed him is inconsistent with suicide. Also, he had no powder burns. His family and friends say he had information that he was taking to a storage locker in El Reno (suburb) as soon as he could "shake the feds".

4. The Elohim City connections. Carol Howe, Andreas Strassmeier, etc.

5. Reports of multiple undetonated devices in the building in the moments following the attack.

6. The mysterious lack of ATF agents in the building that day.

7. Reports of threats to that building dating back 10 days before the bombing. (Why still have children in the building if there were a threat, or anybody for that matter.)

8. 2 ATF agents claimed to be in the building when it happened. One said he was in a elevator that went into freefall for 5 stories. After which, he escaped and saved lives. It was later revealed that none of the governors on the elevators were tripped, indicated no free fall. The other man claimed to use his martial arts skilled to bust through several walls, injuring his hand. There is video of this man, who seems to be perfectly fine with no sign he was in a building that was utterly destroyed.

I am in no way a conspiracy theorist. These things just stand out to me and they don't add up. Feel free to debunk any and all of these issues.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The best thing to do @JennerH is to pick on of those particular items and state your case for it with backed up documentation. State the sources you have that contradict the "official story" and why, followed up with the science behind each of those items. OKC is very similar to 9/11 in that its way too complicated to just tackle head on. This particular site is dedicated to debunking specific claims or taking on bad science related to said claims. Not trying to shrug you off or anything of the sort, but in the time Ive been here thats what ive seen get the most and best results. Hope this helps.
 
The Terrance Yeakey (note spelling) "murder" almost debunks itself - firstly sites all over complain there was no autopsy, and then they post pictures supposedly taken from the autopsy report - you can't have it both ways!!

Eg Who killed Terrance Yeakey

Although the Yeakey incident occurred some thirty miles away in a different
jurisdiction, the investigation was quickly taken out of the hands of the El
Reno police and the Canadian County sheriff and turned over to the Oklahoma
City Police Department and the FBI. No homicide investigation was ever
conducted, and there was no autopsy.
Content from External Source
and:
Example of skull xray showing downward path of bullet exhibited in Yeakey's autopsy drawing.
Content from External Source


Note also how the image is canted over to create a 45 degree downward angle and then it is claimed....

The trajectory was from a 40-45 degree angle above his head.
Content from External Source
I only have MS paint, so can't rotate the skull to a vertical position so that it shows the ACTUAL angle - but clearly whoever wrote this is falsifying the data - the angle appears to me to be more 20-25 degrees than 40-45.

So the claim has false data and a fairly major internal inconsistency - these don't make it untrue of course.....but they make me pretty suspicious!
 
Feel free to debunk any and all of these issues.
You listed a bunch of allegations with little to no reference regarding them. How is anyone to debunk an issue if you don't supply the source of it?

As for "Discovery Channel" not being a reputable source; the data wasn't supplied by the channel, that was New Mexico Tech. Is New Mexico Tech not reputable? Did the program misrepresent the work done, if so, how?

You say Partin is a very competent source. Is he? What causes you to have that opinion? Is there a link to his work and calculations in this matter?
 
Re. point 5.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

At 10:28 am, rescuers found what they believed to be a second bomb. Some rescue workers refused to leave until police ordered the mandatory evacuation of a four-block area around the site.[102][108] The device was determined to be a three-foot (.9-m) long TOW missile used in the training of federal agents and bomb-sniffing dogs;[3][109] although actually inert, it had been marked "live" in order to mislead arms traffickers in a planned law enforcement sting.[109] On examination the missile was determined to be inert, and relief efforts resumed 45 minutes later.
Content from External Source
 
6. The mysterious lack of ATF agents in the building that day.

False - from the Grand Jury report:


Part of this Grand Jury's responsibility was to investigate allegations that federal government agencies had received prior warning the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was to occur. More specifically, an allegation surfaced that agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) assigned to the Oklahoma City Office were contacted on their pagers on the morning of April 19, 1995, prior to 9:02 a.m. and were advised not to come into the office.
Four employees of the ATF who were in the building prior to 9:00 a.m. on April 19, 1995, appeared before us and testified. Additionally, we have received photographic evidence and the testimony of other witnesses. We are convinced that ATF employees Luke Franey, Valerie Rowden, Vernon Buster, James Staggs and Alex McCauley were in the building when it was destroyed. There was no credible evidence presented to us that leads us to believe the ATF had prior warning of the bombing.
Content from External Source
 
4. The Elohim City connections. Carol Howe, Andreas Strassmeier, etc.

What about it? the Grand Jury report linked in the post above includes this:


C. ELOHIM CITY
After the bombing of the Murrah Building allegations surfaced that an individual identified as an informant for the ATF had provided information to the ATF prior to April 19, 1995, that the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was going to be bombed.
The allegations were basically that several "white supremacists" with connections to Elohim City, a small white separatist community located in Sequoyah County, Oklahoma, may have been involved in the bombing. We have made every effort to try to identify any plausible connection between these individuals and the bombing. In spite of a possible telephone call from Timothy McVeigh to Elohim City in April, 1995, we have been unable to find such a connection. It is our understanding that the FBI has also been unable to find such a link.
Content from External Source
 
Re. point 5.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

At 10:28 am, rescuers found what they believed to be a second bomb. Some rescue workers refused to leave until police ordered the mandatory evacuation of a four-block area around the site.[102][108] The device was determined to be a three-foot (.9-m) long TOW missile used in the training of federal agents and bomb-sniffing dogs;[3][109] although actually inert, it had been marked "live" in order to mislead arms traffickers in a planned law enforcement sting.[109] On examination the missile was determined to be inert, and relief efforts resumed 45 minutes later.
Content from External Source

Also from the Grand Jury report:


F. EXPLOSIVES REPORTED TO BE FOUND IN THE BUILDING
We investigated claims that explosives were found in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Our investigation determined as follows:
  1. A desk ornament that looked like a bundle of dynamite with a clock attached to it. The desk ornament belonged to an ATF agent, and was not an explosive device.
  2. Several federal law enforcement agencies were housed in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. Small arms and small arms ammunition were not an uncommon discovery throughout the search and rescue phase.
  3. An inert T.O.W. missile was found and mistaken for a secondary explosive device. The inert T.O.W. missile belonged to the U.S. Customs Department.
  4. Based on our review of video tapes and photographs, packages of small arms ammunition were mistaken for packs of C4 explosive by one Oklahoma City Police Department officer.
Content from External Source
 
8. 2 ATF agents claimed to be in the building when it happened. One said he was in a elevator that went into freefall for 5 stories. After which, he escaped and saved lives. It was later revealed that none of the governors on the elevators were tripped, indicated no free fall. The other man claimed to use his martial arts skilled to bust through several walls, injuring his hand. There is video of this man, who seems to be perfectly fine with no sign he was in a building that was utterly destroyed.

Regarding elevators -


H. THE ELEVATORS
There were claims that no one could possibly have been in the elevators in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building at the time of the blast. DEA Agent Dave Schickendanz, has said that ATF Resident-in-Charge (RAC) Alex McCauley, was in an elevator with him when the blast occurred.
Through the testimony of other witnesses and photographs of the elevators taken minutes after the blast, the Grand Jury believes RAC McCauley and Agent Schickendanz were in elevator three which stopped on the third floor, and were able to get out on their own.
Content from External Source
the rest seems, at worst, boastful. what conspiracy aspects do you claim here?
 
1. Size of the bomb relative to resulting damages. General Ben Partin (a very competent source) did a study on this and has openly spoken of his lfindings. Please don't refer me to the Discovery Channels "studies" by New Mexico Tech. Seen them. The Discovery Channel is not a reputable source.

What criteria have you used to determine General Partin is a competent source and NMT is not?

How do we determine whether Andres R. Perez, BAE/MAE (the author here) is a competent source?
https://failures.wikispaces.com/Murrah+Federal+Building


Blast Loading
(My bolds) Other than with speculative theories which are not supported by the majority of the engineering community (see Partin Report), it has been widely accepted that the trigger to the collapse of the Murrah Federal Building was the detonation of a homemade bomb contained in a rental truck which was parked in front of the nine-story office building on N.W. Fifth Street. The resulting crater from the blast was approximately 28 feet in diameter and 7 feet deep. This crater was measured to be only about 10 feet away from Column G20 of the Murrah Building. After conducting analysis, the BPAT found that the required energy which would result in a crater of equal magnitude would be equivalent to that of the detonation of approximately 4,000 lbs of trinitrotoluene (TNT) (Mlakar, 1998, p. 113). After additional investigation, it was determined that the rental truck had been loaded with an estimated 4,800 lbs of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil explosive, also known as ANFO (Delatte, 2009, p.157). The detonation of bomb of this magnitude produces a radially propagating air-blast wave. The BPAT calculated that resulting pressures on the nine-story portion of the Murrah Building due to this air-blast wave were a maximum of 10,000 psi at the area closest to the detonation and a minimum of 9 psi at the upper west corner of the structure
(Mlakar, 1998, p. 113-114).
Content from External Source
 
Am I just missing the thread on the Oklahoma City bombing. .... These things just stand out to me and they don't add up. Feel free to debunk any and all of these issues.
There is no substance in the OP to refute. Where is the evidence?

Tim McVeigh did it. McVeigh bought the stuff, rented the truck, etc - the OP 8 points are based on opinions, lies, fantasy, poor research and a bunch of other failed logical and anti-intellectual nonsense. When you research each claim, you will find a bunch of failed opinions, and no evidence.
Tim made a giant bomb. I have used fertilizer and blew up my back yard, got grounded, and my fertilizer source was taken away. McVeigh wanted to kill, he found the a friendly city, where people let you part your moving truck filled with a giant bomb next to the building in OKC. An act he is proud of, and killing kids was collateral damage, his words.

McVeigh unable to get close in Dallas, picked OKC, a soft target. With only two main highways in OKC, and he was picked up exactly the distance and time from OKC going north to be a suspect; caught.

Where are the sources for the 8 things that got you fooled into, "they don't add up"? They don't add up because they are made up.

The OP 8 points have no evidence. Visit OKC, and see how friendly they are, and how evil it makes McVeigh, the kill babies on purpose killer. Bet McVeigh was gullible and believed a lot of CTs, like the list you have.


See the car? Right in front of that car is where McVeigh parked a giant bomb, almost under the building. Did you know the blast was so bad it killed people across the street in another building. Why did Partin make up stuff about OKC?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top