Needs Debunking: CE-5, humans initiating UFO sightings

Code-Beta

New Member
Hello. While watching comments on Mick's video, I saw someone claiming CE-5 Is proof of aliens. CE-5 program, created by Steveen Geer is, as I described in title, group deditaced to summon alines with meditation

I will link ther video for more info about
them. (Just to get familiar with group)

Source: https://youtu.be/TbXEIEVojPg


They say anyone with open mind can summon them, and most people (on reddit) said that they did it.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/gf7js6/whats_the_deal_with_stephen_greer/fpvgqa2?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Others desceibed too as bright/white spheres.

And there is video evidence(in video man uses laser, not to be confused with UFO).

Source: https://youtu.be/OrhbKqUpGLo


Only idea which falls to my mind is that they all lie, but then there whoudn't be posts like these( Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EBEs/comments/6zmxu1/i_tried_the_ce_5_initiativenothing_happened/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
). If he was told to lie by group(as it is his 1. meditation, and many of people said they saw it on 1. Meditation), why did he say just "it didn't work". Why not expoise group?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's a tricky one. On the face of it the claim is quite simple: "Do CE5, have encounters with Aliens." But how do you test it? It's a lot of work to go out into the desert for days and meditate. How to we get a control group?

There are also lots of lights in the sky. If you've not spent hours staring at the night sky in that location before, then how would you know what is normal?

Why lights in the sky? Why do you need to be in an altered mental state? Why don't the thousands (or millions) of people that live nearby see what you are seeing? Why don't the alien spaceships show up on radar? Why such poor photos and videos.

What's the actual evidence FOR CE5?

It's utterly ridiculous, lacks any reason or evidence, looks like a con, and yet people pay thousands of dollars for it. They don't want it debunked, because it would ruin their world view. And since nobody is going to do a valid scientific experiment, it's going to just keep going.
 

cybo

New Member
It's a tricky one. On the face of it the claim is quite simple: "Do CE5, have encounters with Aliens." But how do you test it? It's a lot of work to go out into the desert for days and meditate.
Test by doing it. Every worthwhile endeavor requires work, but you don't necessarily have to go to the desert for it. Just find a quiet area where you live.

How to we get a control group?
Find people willing to do it. ‍♂️

There are also lots of lights in the sky. If you've not spent hours staring at the night sky in that location before, then how would you know what is normal?
There are lights that you can identify as a known phenomena and there are those that you can identify as an unknown phenomena.

Why lights in the sky?
Why not?

Why do you need to be in an altered mental state?
Because through practice people who have done it that way found that it works best. You can go and do it in a non-altered state first and then do it in an altered state to see the difference. Test it as many times as you wish and determine what you have experienced.

Why don't the thousands (or millions) of people that live nearby see what you are seeing?
Maybe some of them do. That's an easy strawman you found to kick down.

Why don't the alien spaceships show up on radar?
Maybe they do. How do you know that they don't? Looking for more straw?

Why such poor photos and videos.
Quality depends on the technology used, which in turn depends on the year the videos were made. There more recent videos are in HD and 4K, but the issue is still with zoom lenses used and the speed at which objects travel that makes it difficult to capture them at 30fps or 60 fps. For example you can go through Peter Maxwell Slattery's videos and probably find some HD and 4K Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWqWlfxswV8&list=PLvfydYBDG4T6EBnrETriczOm_ps3bWeL4
. I heard him talking about him using 4K cameras, so he has some videos.
If you have access to high-fps equipment and great zoom lenses, plus can track an object automatically, not by hand, across the skies, by all means, go to places or gatherings and take a shot. See what you can get, and then make your conclusions.

What's the actual evidence FOR CE5?
Videos

It's utterly ridiculous, lacks any reason or evidence, looks like a con, and yet people pay thousands of dollars for it. They don't want it debunked, because it would ruin their world view. And since nobody is going to do a valid scientific experiment, it's going to just keep going.
This is not skepticism you are using. It's cynicism. I know who's willing to do a valid scientific experiment. You.
 

cybo

New Member
That's actually (barely) CE1
Metabunk 2020-05-18 21-13-21.jpg
Right. You found a flaw.
Have your own experience, and then go on and explain what is the evidence for it. For many their visceral experience of communication with higher intelligence in these encounters is undeniable, and correlation with other independent experiencers serves to experiencers as a sufficient evidence of their experiences.
 

gtoffo

Active Member
What does "altered mental state" mean? Drugs? Alcohol?

I can spend a couple of hours on my roof stargazing if you send me a test protocol that involves alcohol and I'm sure I can recruit a couple of weirdos to do it with me :p

Also tricky: getting people to try it with the right equipment. Would need to film the whole experiment and have low light cameras able to record the "sighting" if any. I wanted to see Space X's Starlink passing overhead a couple of week ago. It was insanely bright and clear to the naked eye and quite shocking (Elon is probably a real alien at this point). Yet none of the (old or iPhone) cameras I had were able to pick up anything clear or close to the real thing. Low light photography is tricky. Nobody would believe what I saw that night and they would think I was crazy "a string of 60 objects all aligned and zooming through the night at hight speed and as bright as Venus!". Actually many don't believe me even if it is a perfectly repeatable observation and totally explained. Only seeing is believing apparently :)

Any of those videos during day time?
 

purpleivan

Member
There are lights that you can identify as a known phenomena and there are those that you can identify as an unknown phenomena.
"Unknown phenomena" in the context that you describe it is meaningless. Unknown can mean a Chinese lantern, flare, aircraft or other perfectly normal object, but they're just too far to be identified. If you looked at a picture of yourself from a sufficient distance it could be described as an "unknown phenomena". Just because something is in the air and too far/small to be identified does not mean that it's in any way exotic or interesting.

Because through practice people who have done it that way found that it works best. You can go and do it in a non-altered state first and then do it in an altered state to see the difference. Test it as many times as you wish and determine what you have experienced.
I'm sure if I binge watched my favourite TV show for 8 hours, then went outside and waited for some nondescript lights to drift across the sky at some point, there would be. Doesn't mean that it was TV overdose induced.

Quality depends on the technology used, which in turn depends on the year the videos were made. There more recent videos are in HD and 4K, but the issue is still with zoom lenses used and the speed at which objects travel that makes it difficult to capture them at 30fps or 60 fps. For example you can go through Peter Maxwell Slattery's videos and probably find some HD and 4K
The majoriy of the objects in the videos shown in this thread have been slow moving, something that doesn't require high framerate cameras. In all the videos shown here the "phenomena" have been small dots in a night sky, the larger ones being cropped video to enlarge said small dots.

Call me a cynic, but I'd predict that the introduction of HD and 4K camera will just result in more of the same. More videos of small dots, just with more detail to the noise in the video and not the revealing of anything in the way of interesting or compelling detail.

Of dots.

This is not skepticism you are using. It's cynicism. I know who's willing to do a valid scientific experiment. You.
To be honest it would take more than a few shaky videos on Youtube et al, of dots moving in the sky (of which there are many of mundane origin) to drag myself into the desert (or other remote location), get myself into an "altered state" and wait for tiny dots to float by.

Funnily enough last night I saw a slow moving dot come over a nearby hillside, I watched it for about 1/2 a minute until it got close enough for the regular strobing of the lights to become apparent and reveal it as just an aircraft. I could have videoed it for the first 30 seconds, then posted my evidence of visitations from beyond the moon to Youtube, but I'm not looking for the clicks.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Their "close encounter kind" list only goes up to 4 and CE5 is a "new kind" which is "human initiated" as opposed to the others being UFO initiated.
Well, it's not like it's in the OED or anything. Greer says:
Source: https://twitter.com/DrStevenGreer/status/1227739161060401154

Close Encounter of the Fifth Kind = bilateral contact experiences through conscious, voluntary, and proactive human-initiated cooperative communication with extraterrestrial intelligence.
Content from External Source
The problem is the videos just show "staying out in the dark long enough to see some lights in the sky"
 

Luis Cayetano

New Member
Ask the aliens to provide some sort of scientifically valid and testable information that could in principle be tested by, say, the latest generation of space telescopes or other scientific instruments, or that checks out mathematically. For example, get the aliens to tell you about stellar evolution in their local star, the chemical composition of that star and planet's atmosphere, where they are located, etc. (so that all of this can be checked out). Or get them to solve some sort of currently unresolved mathematical theorem, or provide an engineering solution to a pressing ecological or other issue.

Or: get numerous people to "talk" to ETs separately and find what each ET correspondent says. The questions could be about something that all the aliens would have to agree on (such as what their nervous system is like). If people receive wildly different answers to these queries, then it's indistinguishable from them talking to themselves.

All we EVER get from "CE5" and similar woo are nebulous messages about good will and attaining spiritual enlightenment on a higher plane or some similar drivel. If one is actually communicating with flesh and blood extraterrestrials, then one should be able to ask them questions that corroborate that and that have tangible physical meaning. Anything else is the suggestibility of the human mind at play - in other words, no different to "talking to God", scaring oneself with Ouija boards, etc. The vagueness of these experiences is in fact something that Greer et al bank on, because this stuff is really just a new religion.
 

JMartJr

Senior Member
Well, it's not like it's in the OED or anything.
True. The word "Close" is in there though. A distant light too far away to tell anything about it might conceivably be an encounter of some sort, it seems stretching things to call it a "Close Encounter," whatever number is then appended.

If anybody ever summons one to a CLOSE encounter, and shoot some vids, perhaps in the daytime when you can see them better, I'd be interested. I've seen distant lights in the sky vids before, wth no way to tell what they are, they are not very interesting.
 

Meat5000

Member
The videos that intrigued me were the ones in which the UOs (theyre not flying if its antigrav or if theyre in space) appeared to reply to a pattern of light flashing from a laser by flashing back in the same pattern.
 

NorCal Dave

Senior Member.
It reminds me a lot of performative hypnosis and/or speaking in tongues (glossolalia). Both are group activities where an expected behavior or outcome is already established, it's just a matter of bringing it about. Similar to the CE-5 workshops, there is a prescribed way to accomplish the goal. Do this and this will happen.

My then girlfriend, now wife, and I spent a short time in our early 20s in an Assembly of God church. Sunday evening sessions usually ended with lots of the congregation down in front, arms raised and emotions soaring. Eventually, someone would begin speaking in tongues, including on one occasion, my wife. She later reported that "it just seemed the thing to do". It was a performative behavior. It would not happen nowadays.

Likewise, many of us have seen a show where someone is hypnotized and then told to act like a chicken for our amusement. So when someone that is open to being hypnotized is told to act like a chicken, they do so.

It sounds like many of the proponents of the CE-5 protocol are "open" to it working, so it does.

Hypnotizability does correlate, however, with ‘absorption,’ a personality characteristic that involves an openness to experience emotional and cognitive alterations across a variety of situations. Although the relationship is modest (r = .30), it implies that hypnotic ability is related to a more general tendency to respond in characteristic ways to sensory, cognitive, and imaginative experiences.
Content from External Source
www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/hypnotic-susceptibility
Bold by me.

In addition, some studies suggest that participating in things like glossolalia can make one feel better.

A study done by the American Journal of Human Biology found that speaking in tongues was associated with both a reduction in circulatory cortisol, and enhancements in alpha-amylase enzyme activity – two common biomarkers of stress reduction that can be measured in saliva.[72] Several sociological studies report various social benefits to engaging in Pentecostal glossolalia,[73][74] such as an increase in self-confidence.[74]
Content from External Source
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaking_in_tongues

Going out with a group, or solo, and thinking your communing with aliens makes some people feel better. In fact, aliens aren't really needed.

As pointed out above, the lights could be al kinds of things, besides aliens. And, how may times do these groups head out, meditate and not see anything? There's not going to be videos of that.
 
I sat down on my balcony over the last few evenings. And I counted within 1 hour about 5 seemingly outlandish-looking stars flying through the evening sky. Looking at satellite tracker ESRI, I see a high volume of objects flying within a 50 km vicinity of my home.

Honestly, considering this fact, I think the CE5 protocol is at best nothing else than an effective meme. It is easy to understand at the basic level, but the protocol is difficult to master, requires several people gathering together in a remote spot, alleged observations from successful CE5 sessions are difficult to replicate in an exact manner, but generally easy to fake and highly susceptible to external noise (did I really see something?) such as satellites being mistaken for UAPs.

At its core, it is not really so much different than your favorite allegedly existing "glitchy" video game easter egg.
 
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