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MH370: Report of Jet flying over Maldives Island Kudahuvadhoo

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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I see. If the plane maintained an altitude of ~5000 feet and bearing that took it over sultan ismail petra airport and the small island the military radar picked it up in the strait it would have struck the mountains on the northern part of Aceh. Those mountains peak between 5000 and 9000 feet.

Or was the plane taken to central Africa?

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/fligh...malaysia-airlines-planes-description-4640688/
Well this, if confirmed, is certainly another twist. According to the residents in Kudahuvadhoo the low-flying large airline they saw was traveling from the North, and headed South Easterly.

Roughly 0615 local time (so, lighting conditions match for a visual sighting). Interesting. But, that location is quite some distance from the last verified position of MH370. Curious.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's not clear why this report has taken so long to come out:

http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54067



The Maldives is a very popular tourist destination, so actually gets a lot of traffic - mostly arrivals and departures, and very low small island hoppers. . The island of Kudahuvadhoo is about 100 miles south of the main airport on Male, and would rarely see overflights - expect maybe some Bangkok to Pretoria flights.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Maldives is UTC +5, so 6:15 AM Malaysia time is 01:15 UTC Feb 8
Malaysia is UTC +8, so that's 9:15AM Malaysia time. Nine hours after the plane took off?
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
Here's another press report from the same website with a little more detail: http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/54062

From the flight path they are describing, southeastward, it doesn't sound likely to be the missing plane. It would have been moving west unless it changed direction north of the sighting.
 

Jason

Senior Member
I'm a little confused. Did the plane go off radar at the same time its transponder was turned off, or did one proceed the other?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
A local aviation expert told Haveeru that it is "likely" for MH370 to have flown over the Maldives. The possibility of any aircraft flying over the island at the reported time is extremely low, the expert added.
Whut? Things are confusing enough without following a statement with an immediate contradiction.
 

misterpringles

New Member
If they did see MH370 there at 0615 gmt+5, then Inmarsat's 0811 gmt+8 data must be wrong. It's either one or the other. I say this because Inmarsat's pings place the plane much much more than 1hour from the Maldives.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Does anyone know whats come of this "unknown" aircraft that was picked up by radar that was seen flying in the opposite direction around the same time the malaysian flight went off of radar. Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't radar stations determine what type of aircraft it picks up even if it doesn't have a call sign or transponder on. Also if the Thai radar station picked up this "unknown" aircraft couldn't they plot where it came from and where it went, and how is an aircraft "unknown" in this day and age with our technology?

 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
can't radar stations determine what type of aircraft it picks up even if it doesn't have a call sign or transponder on.
No. Without a transponder all you get is a reflected signal - a dot on the radar screen. Similar sized aircraft will look the same.
 

Jason

Senior Member
No. Without a transponder all you get is a reflected signal - a dot on the radar screen. Similar sized aircraft will look the same.
But don't military installations have that ability. I thought they did because its not likely your gonna have military jets flying around with transponders on during war time.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
But don't military installations have that ability. I thought they did because its not likely your gonna have military jets flying around with transponders on during war time.
There are other (military) methods ( think "Star Trek" ;) ).

But here we are discussing civilian aviation transponders.
 

Mark Barrington

Active Member
But don't military installations have that ability. I thought they did because its not likely your gonna have military jets flying around with transponders on during war time.
It's pretty much impossible for radar waves to resolve airplanes with enough detail to tell exactly what kind they are. The wavelengths are just too long. Military airplanes do have systems to identify each other, but the details are classified (as far as I know).
 

Jason

Senior Member
There are other (military) methods ( think "Star Trek" ;) ).

But here we are discussing civilian aviation transponders.
Sorry, I cited a quote from CNN about the unknown aircraft seen heading in the opposite direction after it's transponder was shut off. I didn't mean to go off topic, and I thought maybe this unknown aircraft could've been important to the investigation
 
Can the MFC store a "flight plan" that can later be recalled or must the pilot enter all the waypoints on every "new" flight? I mean most airlines would be flying between the same destinations, it would be easier if the MFC could "store" flight plans. So the pilot doesn't have to type in all the waypoints on every flight.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Can the MFC store a "flight plan" that can later be recalled or must the pilot enter all the waypoints on every "new" flight? I mean most airlines would be flying between the same destinations, it would be easier if the MFC could "store" flight plans. So the pilot doesn't have to type in all the waypoints on every flight.
Well, most current FMCs have capacity for two Routes to be stored. Keep in mind, though, that if only one pilot intends to perform some illegal act (for example), having a flight plan pre-loaded into "RTE 2" is going to be noticed by the other pilot.

You gave me a great idea for a YouTube search (I used the abbreviation "rte") and came up with a bunch of explanatory videos. These are designed to help instruct the many Flight Sim hobbyists, apparently. (And not pertinent, perhaps...and the bloke is a bit confusing, and does it in ways that aren't exactly correct).



The example uses a past version of FMC software (similar to when the first B-737-300s were introduced, in the 1980s) with only one RTE capability. On the CDU in most modern versions when you press the 'RTE' key you are given a choice to cycle between 'RTE 1' or 'RTE 2'.

But, the videos can be a bit informative for the layperson, at least.


ETA:
I mean most airlines would be flying between the same destinations, it would be easier if the MFC could "store" flight plans. So the pilot doesn't have to type in all the waypoints on every flight.
I should clarify that. You are correct. When it comes to airline scheduled routes, in the past there were what we called "canned" routes, and they were printed out, and assigned a shortcut alpha-numeric code. We'd refer to the correct shortcut, and enter that. The computer databases 'knew' these, and would then load and propagate all the various waypoints.

But, starting in the 1990s we began to have a 'DataLink' capability (through the ACARS) so our specific Flight Plan was uplinked and loaded, when requested by the crew. Some long-length flights may have various routing options, depending on weather, winds, and even time of day traffic conflicts. So, what is uplinked is based on what Dispatch has already determined to be THAT plan for that flight. Make sense?
 
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jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Yes , WeedWhacker, that makes sense and tells me just how much has advanced since I was with Transport Canada.
Does ACARS report back data that includes what the FMC is doing? ... is that part of the service that this airline did not subscribe to?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Does ACARS report back data that includes what the FMC is doing?
ACARS...primary and most basic function is what we call 'OOOI' times....Out, Off, On, In. For flight-following purposes. It also handled SELCAL when in range of VHF (and nowadays even on HF, but SATCOM is used more also). It's become more advanced, and includes all sorts of possibilities, as subscribed to by the customer (airline). For systems monitoring, faults and such. Can't say that it "spies" on every pilot action or input into the FMC, though.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
They seem to be dismissing the reports of this.
So what plane was it then?
 

Jason

Senior Member
Can't say that it "spies" on every pilot action or input into the FMC, though.
Well if UPS and FedX subscribes to that for their drivers, I can see the same process happening towards pilots for insurance purposes, god forbid there is an accident
 

Jason

Senior Member
They seem to be dismissing the reports of this.
So what plane was it then?
Its contradicting right? On one hand they say they've detected a "trace" of the missing plane, but in the same breath they say "no trace" of the missing plane has been found yet.

Just out of curiosity, what if the plane was hit by a surface to air missile by accident, like happened to Iran Flight 655 in 1988. Lets say if the plane shut its transponder off and a military installation in the area recognized it as a FOE, not friend and shot it down. But realized their error afterwards. Would this be something that would easily be discovered, or would an admission be necessary by the military responsible?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Well if UPS and FedX subscribes to that for their drivers, I can see the same process happening towards pilots for insurance purposes, god forbid there is an accident
Yes, but that's pretty basic GPS monitoring. I decided to look into it more, to see what's the latest (since i retired), and the Wiki page mentioned this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircra...ing_System#Flight_management_system_interface

So, it's a matter of 'what' a customer (airline) wishes to have access to on an immediate basis versus the costs. Noting that there is (I think I've mentioned before) something called a QAR (Quick Access Recorder) already, and its data is downloaded by maintenance regularly on the ground, and the info reviewed as part of some airlines' "Continuing Maintenance Program" (a way to save money in their MX Department).
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
ts contradicting right? On one hand they say they've detected a "trace" of the missing plane, but in the same breath they say "no trace" of the missing plane has been found yet.
I think you might be misreading that, they say no trace appeared on Maldives radar. My question as to what plane it was is about the reports of a low-flying extremely loud airliner - that's not something that can be confused with anything else, so unless they were lying, they saw something where it didn't belong. They should at least explain what that was.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Yes, but that's pretty basic GPS monitoring. I decided to look into it more, to see what's the latest (since i retired), and the Wiki page mentioned this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircra...ing_System#Flight_management_system_interface

So, it's a matter of 'what' a customer (airline) wishes to have access to on an immediate basis versus the costs. Noting that there is (I think I've mentioned before) something called a QAR (Quick Access Recorder) already, and its data is downloaded by maintenance regularly on the ground, and the info reviewed as part of some airlines' "Continuing Maintenance Program" (a way to save money in their MX Department).
WeedWhacker, isn't there a GPS locator attached to these black boxes that send out a signal for a month or so. If the black box ends up in the ocean how far down does it have to be to stop transmitting a signal, and would military ships or submarines still be able to hear the signal in the ocean even if it was deep
 

Jason

Senior Member
I think you might be misreading that, they say no trace appeared on Maldives radar. My question as to what plane it was is about the reports of a low-flying extremely loud airliner - that's not something that can be confused with anything else, so unless they were lying, they saw something where it didn't belong. They should at least explain what that was.
I agree Peter, Your talking about the witnesses, not the radar blip that came back moments after the plane disappeared off of radar going in the opposite direction...
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Yes that was Malaysian radar in the general vicinity of the flight path, not Maldive radar which is some distance away below India.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Yes that was Malaysian radar in the general vicinity of the flight path, not Maldive radar which is some distance away below India.
A bit OT, didn't know where to put this about the flight and I apologize ahead of time, but it might lend credence to the lack of motivation by Malaysia. The longer they wait the harder the investigation becomes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...112454-ae91-11e3-96dc-d6ea14c099f9_story.html. Does anyone think its a little suspect or just stupidity that Malaysia won't accept the US's help in this investigation. According to reports, the LA FBI office offered their hand in the investigation, and we all know the US has the most experience in piecing these types of situations together, but they still have accepted their help. Many questions are being asked because of this lack of motivation.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Well apparently their help doesn't extend to releasing pine gap radar information. I'm sure everyone has their reasons and motivations, everyone wants to hang on to their advantage.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Well apparently their help doesn't extend to releasing pine gap radar information. I'm sure everyone has their reasons and motivations, everyone wants to hang on to their advantage.
Well lets home thats the case, because time is of the essence now Peter. Aren't we able to locate the black boxes though, I thought they had a GPS locator fixed to them that sent out a signal for a month or so.
 

jaydeehess

Senior Member.
Common communications radio waves do not propigate well through water, especially salt water. Submarines communicate while submerged, in the Extremely Low Frequency range which severely limits data rate.
The two flight recorders do, iirc, send an audible ping , a sound, for the purposes of underwater location. No VHF or UHF signal would propigate more than a few feet from a transmitter that is under the ocean.

A modern submarine would have extremely sophisticated listening capabilities and could hear these if it was in range. Now you run into the military secrets issue again. First of all no one likes to give away the area in which their stealthy submarines are operating, and second, no one wants to give any extra hints as to those boat's capabilities.
For instance, if the USA were to state that they had two submarines in the Indian Ocean that heard the ping and the triangulation puts it at a certain location then either these two boats are both close to that location or they both have capability to hear this very well published sound from a long distance.

In the same fashion no one wants to give out that their satellite tracked this aircraft even though it was down at a few thousand feet asl for hundreds of miles.

Sooner or later I suspect, if any super secret tech does have info that can locate the plane, some searching plane or ship will miraculously "discover" that location but how they did it will not include any hint that info came in from that tech. It will "be" due to the hard work and tenacity of the search effort. Its also very plausible that hard work and tenacity of searchers would find wreckage, given long enough.........

I spent time on a military installation that had some top secret tech. I was friends with one of the operators and asked him what he actually did. His answer was " I type". "Type what?" I inquired. No reply. Thinking he did not hear me I asked again. Again no reply, just a blank look in my direction. Message received.
Being a tech I thought I had deduced what an outdoor piece of equipment was for. It was large and visible about ten klicks away. I asked a mi!litary tech about it, to see if I was correct. " Don't know what you mean, there's nothing over there", was the reply to that one even though we were standing in a spot where it was plainly observable.
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Aren't we able to locate the black boxes though, I thought they had a GPS locator fixed to them that sent out a signal for a month or so.
They are only detectable by sonar within a 25 mile radius (maybe even less), so it's still necessary to find the crash location first. No GPS as far I know.
 
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