Isis/Osiris consipracy, sexual and occult symbology in art, crucifixion scenes

Oxy, would I be right in assuming you are (or were brought up) a devout christian?

Because my sense is that the things you are talking about have very little resonance to non-christians. It all seems like some rather specific and arcane concerns that to have any real impact outside of particular corners of the christian church (if that).

I have never had a strong Christian belief. At best/worst I have been 'undecided' but that was many years ago. I have been an atheist very much for the most of my life.

The Bible did not make sense to me, too many inconsistencies, it was illogical.

I do not need to believe in God or Devil to know that the world is shaped by people who either do or profess to.

The things I am talking about are the future of our world and the type of world it will become. I would like to see an enlightened Humanity, a world better for mankind without the strife or constraints of religions, I would like to help in a peaceful way to spread reason, tolerance and understanding.

Religion is man made, that is why it is imperfect and has been used for such oppression and destruction. However, it is not alone, Imperialism, Corporatism, Communism and Fascism are equally dangerous and oppressive.

I feel we need to find a way forward to 'illumination' if you will without imposing the will of the few on the many but by bringing the many forward.

I am well aware I will never see it.
 
To be more specific, I do not truly regard myself as an Atheist, I think of myself really as a Humanist. I believe most people are inherently good, altruistic, as described in the "Selfish Gene" that is normally hardwired in us to aid us in survival. We do good things in the hope that good things are done in return. Similar to the discussions had elsewhere on this forum. Obviously there are some pretty bad people out there too so its no good living in la la land.

What I am objecting to is corruption and false flag atrocities, I object to the enslavement of the populace by use of usury and debt; to the promulgation of wars for profit and aggression; 'secret machinations/conspiracies' designed for unknown but what appear highly suspect motives. if people are pretending to be one thing, i.e. religious whilst at the same time duplicitously carrying out pagan rituals how can they be trusted?

Something Jesse Ventura said, really struck a chord with me. He said we should vote for candidates other than the two party system, which is the most common system in the west. Both are in the pockets of the banks and multinationals. Both are therefore corrupt. It is not a wasted vote to vote alternatively, it is a very constructive vote. Reclaim governments from the corporations and banks and make them work for the people again. I hope it is a meme!

Lets just try and live together and treat each other how we would like to be treated.

I'm in for a kicking here lol
 
Well, I'm a little bemused at how you've arrived at your current position. I really don't see much in your evidence of symbolism (as evidence for some centuries old conspiracy, obviously there is symbolism everywhere). I don't think the Masons are really part of anything other than a social club and old-boys network, and the satanic/pagan type stuff just seems silly. I really don't see the world being shaped by satanist, or anything other than ordinary people with the usual mix of ordinary religions.

I also think Jesse Ventura is now largely a showman, promoting conspiracy theories because that's what sells. His show is VERY disingenuous, constantly grasping uncritically at the faintest bit of "evidence" for his theories, and ignoring everything else. His show with Alex Jones was particularly bad. He likes to show up places, and then claims that because people would not immediately let him and his crew inside, then it's some kind of evidence.

You toss up a lot of "evidence", something that's frequently referred to as a "Gish Gallop". But is there ONE bit of evidence that you think could not possibly fit into a more "mainstream" view of the world? Is there ONE piece of evidence you think can't be just explained away?
 
I don' know about Oxy but I think the Ga Guidestones are difficult to explain away . . .
External Quote:

Another example, I think, is the well discussed Ga Guidestones. . . .simple math tells you what is presented (500,000,000) is either wishful thinking, prophetic speculation or foreknowledge, or a veiled threat. . . . All of which when carved in stone for all to eventually see was obviously calculated to inspire, frighten, warn, or is the same thing the Icon may represent. . . . http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
 
I don' know about Oxy but I think the Ga Guidestones are difficult to explain away . . .
External Quote:

Another example, I think, is the well discussed Ga Guidestones. . . .simple math tells you what is presented (500,000,000) is either wishful thinking, prophetic speculation or foreknowledge, or a veiled threat. . . . All of which when carved in stone for all to eventually see was obviously calculated to inspire, frighten, warn, or is the same thing the Icon may represent. . . . http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

What's hard to explain about them? Some guy decided to put his vision for the world into stone. That all.
 
What's hard to explain about them? Some guy decided to put his vision for the world into stone. That all.
Possibly . . . or it is just as likely to be a much larger group of people . . . and they went to great effort to remain secret . . . funny . . . just like we were talking about above . . . the desire to make a point but remain hidden !!!!!!!

External Quote:
The monument was unveiled in March 1980, in front of 100 people.[6] Another account specifies March 22, 1980 and says 400 people attended.[2]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones#section_3

Author: R.C. Christian
(a pseudonyn) [sic]


Sponsors: A small group
of Americans who seek
the Age of Reason


Time Capsule
Placed six feet below this spot
On
To Be Opened on
External Quote:

The tall and courtly Martin—the only man in Elberton besides Fendley known to have met R. C. Christian face-to-face—is now 78. "Fendley called me and said, 'A kook over here wants some kind of crazy monument,'" Martin says. "But when this fella showed up he was wearing a very nice, expensive suit, which made me take him a little more seriously. And he was well-spoken, obviously an educated person." Martin was naturally taken aback when the man told him straight out that R. C. Christian was a pseudonym. He added that his group had been planning this secretly for 20 years and wanted to remain anonymous forever. "And when he told me what it was he and this group wanted to do, I just about fell over," Martin says. "I told him, 'I believe you'd be just as well off to take the money and throw it out in the street into the gutters.' He just sort of looked at me and shook his head, like he felt kinda sorry for me, and said, 'You don't understand.'"
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones?currentPage=2

Christian "never would tell me a thing about this group he belonged to," Martin says. The banker received his last letter from Christian right around the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks and assumes the man—who would have been in his mid-eighties—has since passed away.

 
Well, I'm a little bemused at how you've arrived at your current position. I really don't see much in your evidence of symbolism (as evidence for some centuries old conspiracy, obviously there is symbolism everywhere). I don't think the Masons are really part of anything other than a social club and old-boys network, and the satanic/pagan type stuff just seems silly. I really don't see the world being shaped by satanist, or anything other than ordinary people with the usual mix of ordinary religions.

Symbolism is indeed everywhere and is understood in various different ways by different people. Not everyone takes the same thing or attaches the same importance to symbols. Someone may personally attach little importance to symbol/s and yet still recognise them as important in shaping the world or reality. E.g, I can look at a crucifix and it holds no value to me personally but I still recognise it as important because it symbolises the belief of many others and their beliefs impact on my world. I disrespect it at my own risk the same as if I disrespect a flag or some other thing that carries strong emotive value.

I think in your attempt to dismiss arguments, you simplify matters to a ridiculous level. Thats IMO

I also think Jesse Ventura is now largely a showman, promoting conspiracy theories because that's what sells. His show is VERY disingenuous, constantly grasping uncritically at the faintest bit of "evidence" for his theories, and ignoring everything else. His show with Alex Jones was particularly bad. He likes to show up places, and then claims that because people would not immediately let him and his crew inside, then it's some kind of evidence.

Here would have to agree with you if it were based simply on his tv shows. I was impressed by the way he conducted himself in the Piers Morgan debate. I thought it showed a deeper, more matured and thoughtful side to him than is normally presented. I think perhaps normally he is more constricted by a scripted role and expected format designed to garner a wide audience.

You toss up a lot of "evidence", something that's frequently referred to as a "Gish Gallop". But is there ONE bit of evidence that you think could not possibly fit into a more "mainstream" view of the world? Is there ONE piece of evidence you think can't be just explained away?

I would strongly disagree with the Gish Gallop allegation. Anything can be explained away if someone has the motivation and intellect to explain it away. People undoubtedly get paid lots of money to 'explain stuff away', they are often called lawyers, spin doctors, image consultants etc.

No doubt many people can 'explain stuff away' but that does not make it so.
 
I think in your attempt to dismiss arguments, you simplify matters to a ridiculous level. Thats IMO

Perhaps you also overcomplicate things a tad?

I'm not trying to dismiss arguments, and when I talk about things being able to be "explained away" I mean that they have a perfectly reasonable alternative explanation. Am I oversimplifying by accepting the reasonable explanation rather than the extraordinary explanation?

Like, you post a photo of Madonna, and imply it's part of some centuries old plot to indoctrinate people. I think it's a Superbowl halftime show. A performance piece intended to entertain people. It was a medley of several songs, the one being illustrated there was Vogue.



It's not random, but it's just the show designers picking cool looking themes. It's got not more significance than any other stage show. A few minutes later there was a marching band. It's all just entertainment.

contrailscience.com_skitch_Madonna___Super_Bowl_Medley_2012__28HD_29___YouTube_20121125_085050.jpg
 
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Doing PR to cover up misdeeds of celebrities hardly seems like the same thing as covering up a 2000 year old plot to enslave the world.

If you can 'cover up misdeeds of celebrities', how easy is it to 'cover up' plots to enslave the world, especially when people are so blind they cannot or choose not to see it when it slaps them in the face and is flaunted before them in the form of financial terrorism in the form of massive frauds, false flag atrocities to start wars, extraordinary rendition, justified torture, gagging orders, imprisonment of people who disclose information which shows what is going on, media manipulation, propaganda, false information, suppression of information...

How is that for Gish Galloping
 
contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20121120_080935.jpg



Wow, that is indubitably a humongous penis. I'm kinda jealous now. "Abs"? No way. Its a cock.

:)
 
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If you can 'cover up misdeeds of celebrities', how easy is it to 'cover up' plots to enslave the world ...

Are you suggesting that's it's easier to cover up a plot to enslave the world than it is to cover up Jimmy Saville's groping? And didn't you earlier agree that the jig was up?

And by "false flag atrocities to start wars", do you mean 9/11? If so, what exactly do you think happened there?
 
Just got back from the Renaissance exhibit. Interesting in that there were a lot of crucifixion scenes that all clearly had the same "language" of representation and symbology. All variants on this:

contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20121125_153841.jpg

The Crucifixion, about 1315–20, Pacino di Bonaguida. Tempera and gold leaf on panel. 32 x 17 1/2 in. (81.2 x 44.5 cm). Fondazione di Studi di Storia dell'Arte Roberto Longhi di Firenze


There are the four wounds dripping blood, the side wound spurting, the hand wounds dripping down to elbows, and the foot wound running down to a human skull. Then there's the sun and moon symbols. Some of them were clear direct copies, some less direct:
contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20121125_154155.jpg
contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20121125_154331.jpg


There was even one, probably derived from the above, that was beginning to evolved the phallic abs. Except this is 70 years AFTER the Bigallo Crucifix. Same kind of thing.
contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20121125_154624.jpg


Pacino di Bonaguida
Scenes from the Life of Christ (Crucifixion), c. 1320

The overall point is that there is a lot of copying going on on ancient religious imagery, so it seems entirely feasible that something like the ab shading issue could evolve over time without people back them noticing.
 
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Thanks for that link, very interesting.

I note that it is having its desired effect:

kindofAnonymous says : December 7, 2011 at 3:06 pm I just want to say “thank you” to this project as a whole.
A few years ago I believed in this stuff myself. It is exciting. It feels as if a good friend of you is telling you a great secret that nobody else knows. You think you are someone who looks behind the veil. One that knows the truth.
But through articles like these and reading about skeptical thinking I began to doubt this stuff. I became aware that “critical thinking” is something very different than denying the “official version” and just accept the claims of nonsens spread by “investigative so called journalists”.

Clearly it is well written and persuasive. It will undoubtedly assuage the fears of some who read it and therefore create a mindset whereby they are more accepting of critics of the conspiracy theorists.

I think it raises some very interesting points which are eminently worthy of greater discussion, and perhaps even its own thread dedicated to that end.
 
Thanks for that link, very interesting.

I note that it is having its desired effect:



Clearly it is well written and persuasive. It will undoubtedly assuage the fears of some who read it and therefore create a mindset whereby they are more accepting of critics of the conspiracy theorists.

I think it raises some very interesting points which are eminently worthy of greater discussion, and perhaps even its own thread dedicated to that end.

I hope you are not suggesting that things that are well-written and persuasive are somehow automatically suspicious?

There's a Thrive Debunked thread over here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/448-Debunked-Thrive
 
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Was Pete Tar's post about Vagina dentata removed accidentally? I only ask out of curiosity and that I was going to respond 'lightheartedly' that it has been debunked.

“Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy.”

thinkexist.com_i_sq_as4.gif
Henry Kissinger quotes
 
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I hope you are not suggesting that things that are well-written and persuasive are somehow automatically suspicious?

There's a Thrive Debunked thread over here:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/448-Debunked-Thrive

I think people write things for a reason. If they are well written, they are more likely to achieve the desired goal of the writer. The goal of the writer is clearly, in this instance to disparage the NWO conspiracy theory.

He did a good job.

I do not know what his motivation for that is, it may be simply what he believes and has every right to say, or it may be that he has a wider or more sinister agenda but even if that is true, he still has the right to say it.

Motives are important and virtually impossible to prove.
 
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Perhaps it may be an appropriate time to see exactly on what we can agree, if anything, so I will put a small list of what I think is relevant and ask if you agree or disagree and if you disagree, why you disagree. For ease, tacit agreement is concluded in the absence of disagreement.

1) A religion/philosophy existed in Babylon thousands of years before Judeo Christian religion

2) It was based on science but was presented to the masses in symbolism and allegory as religious doctrine.

3) It comprised the core of all pagan religions of the time and the pantheon of gods were variously known by a number of names.

4) Judaism evolved from this religion and shares many of the core belief systems.

5) Christianity emerged from Judaism and struggled against massive persecution for around 300 years.

6) Christianity gained acceptance due to Emperor Constantine and in order to bring paganism into Christianity, they were merged over time.

7) Knights Templar were the 'strong arm' of the the Catholic Church.

8) Religion and politics were inextricably linked throughout this timeframe.

9)The priests considered, and were, the illumined ones throughout and the masses were fed on what they needed to know or what it suited the priests for them to believe

If we leave it there for the time being.
 
I think people write things for a reason. If they are well written, they are more likely to achieve the desired goal of the writer. The goal of the writer is clearly, in this instance to disparage the NWO conspiracy theory.

He did a good job.

I do not know what his motivation for that is, it may be simply what he believes and has every right to say, or it may be that he has a wider or more sinister agenda but even if that is true, he still has the right to say it.

Motives are important and virtually impossible to prove.

Muertos, the guy who wrote the article is a conspiracy debunker and has(d) been in the field for 7 years. He just recently announced his retirement, and that he is moving on in his life. He was often called a paid disinformation agent from the Conspiracy Theorists, even from Foster Gamble, the creator of Thrive.(http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com...le-turn-your-back-on-conspiracy/#comment-1814)

Where he responded with this http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com...-are-evidently-only-for-conspiracy-theorists/

In other words, he was a bit like Mick. It was a hobby of his that he loved doing so much. Mick has spent lots of time debunking crap that people come up with or sadly believe in, and a good example is this guy https://www.metabunk.org/members/254-lee-h-oswald
This guy, in other words was a tough cookie.
Whatever Mick threw at Lee, Lee just threw it right back.

With the amount of time Mick has spent fighting off conspiracy theories, you could also call him a disinformation agent. And Muertos' article isn't flawless. I know, because I saved it as a word document and saw some of typing errors (forgot an e, there's one too many 'l's)

Also, if you are interested, here's his retirement letter:
http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/one-year-later-thriving-no-more/
 
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Muertos, the guy who wrote the article is a conspiracy debunker and has(d) been in the field for 7 years. He just recently announced his retirement, and that he is moving on in his life. He was often called a paid disinformation agent from the Conspiracy Theorists, even from Foster Gamble, the creator of Thrive.(http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com...le-turn-your-back-on-conspiracy/#comment-1814)

Where he responded with this http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com...-are-evidently-only-for-conspiracy-theorists/

In other words, he was a bit like Mick. It was a hobby of his that he loved doing so much. Mick has spent lots of time debunking crap that people come up with or sadly believe in, and a good example is this guy https://www.metabunk.org/members/254-lee-h-oswald
This guy, in other words was a tough cookie.
Whatever Mick threw at Lee, Lee just threw it right back.

With the amount of time Mick has spent fighting off conspiracy theories, you could also call him a disinformation agent. And Muertos' article isn't flawless. I know, because I saved it as a word document and saw some of typing errors (forgot an e, there's one too many 'l's)

Also, if you are interested, here's his retirement letter:
http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/one-year-later-thriving-no-more/


That final link is a thing of beauty.
 
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1- I'm sure there is, and that religion is Hinduism, is the oldest religion in the world :http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_oldest_known_religion_in_the_world

2- Religion and Science, according to many people, are like Cats and Dogs, they don't like each other. It's a bit debatable. This is covered in Angels & Demons by Dan Brown.

3- What is this religion anyway? There appears to be no name.

4-Could be, but Judaism never really talks about science, so debatable.

5- True, Jesus is said to be Jewish.

6- True

7- The Knights Templars did exist, but only to defend the sacred Temple Mount in Jerusalem, which contained sacred scriptures. Then, once the Crusades ended, they did became the Church's strong arm, and were incredibly dedicated in so. (They also invented Cheques!) http://home.gwi.net/ages/Main Body/History/Templar Origins.html

8- Very True, but it was still occurring in 17th century (My Canadian history books say so)

9- Can't find any info on the net about this, but it could be that way because they are teaching the lesson of god.

Now here's a question for you:

What do you think about all of this Illuminati business

It seems as if you are unsure.
 
Perhaps it may be an appropriate time to see exactly on what we can agree, if anything, so I will put a small list of what I think is relevant and ask if you agree or disagree and if you disagree, why you disagree. For ease, tacit agreement is concluded in the absence of disagreement.

That is very arrogant of you.

1) A religion/philosophy existed in Babylon thousands of years before Judeo Christian religion

so what? Religion existed thousands of years before Babylon was organised as a city too.

2) It was based on science but was presented to the masses in symbolism and allegory as religious doctrine.

supposition and requiring an inaccurate defintion of science

3) It comprised the core of all pagan religions of the time and the pantheon of gods were variously known by a number of names.

nonsense. There were religions in other parts of the world that had no connection with babylonian religion(s) - eg China

4) Judaism evolved from this religion and shares many of the core belief systems.

The first is unproveable and more than likely false IMO - Judaism seems more likely to have evolved under the influences of mesopotamian AND Egyptian influences. And the 2nd is trivial - all religions share some "core belief systems" - eg gods or supernatural beings. To elevate this "connection" beyond trivia how about showing exactly what some of those core beleifs are, how they are shared, and why they are important.

5) Christianity emerged from Judaism and struggled against massive persecution for around 300 years.

True and false, in that order. Persecution of christianity by the Romans was intermittant, probably didn't start until after 100CE, and was almost certainly local and isolated until about 250 CE with the accession of Decius.

6) Christianity gained acceptance due to Emperor Constantine and in order to bring paganism into Christianity, they were merged over time.

Broadly true

7) Knights Templar were the 'strong arm' of the the Catholic Church.

False. The Knights templar were only 1 of many orders of "Warrior Monks" - others include the Hospitallers, the Teutonic Order, and about 2 dozen others.

8) Religion and politics were inextricably linked throughout this timeframe.

Trivial, and also true outside this timeframe.

9)The priests considered, and were, the illumined ones throughout and the masses were fed on what they needed to know or what it suited the priests for them to believe

As has every elite throughout history - including the local women's knitting circle.

Again - trivial in that it is pretty much normal human behaviour that we should all expect - is there a point to this??

If we leave it there for the time being.

fine by me
 
3) It comprised the core of all pagan religions of the time and the pantheon of gods were variously known by a number of names.

I think this perhaps is the key misconception behind your theory. It's an odd kind of hyper-narrow perpective on the world to suggest that there was essentially just one religion at the time. Sure it makes a nice story, but it only works if you ignore the thousands of other religions. And there are plenty of celtic gods (for example) that could not be shoehorned into any equivalent roman god.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_pantheon

I'm addressing one point, because it's the pivotal point. This does not denote agreement or otherwise with the other points. If you'd like to make a case, then perhaps you can address more full what you mean by #3?
 
That is very arrogant of you.



so what? Religion existed thousands of years before Babylon was organised as a city too.



supposition and requiring an inaccurate defintion of science



nonsense. There were religions in other parts of the world that had no connection with babylonian religion(s) - eg China



The first is unproveable and more than likely false IMO - Judaism seems more likely to have evolved under the influences of mesopotamian AND Egyptian influences. And the 2nd is trivial - all religions share some "core belief systems" - eg gods or supernatural beings. To elevate this "connection" beyond trivia how about showing exactly what some of those core beleifs are, how they are shared, and why they are important.



True and false, in that order. Persecution of christianity by the Romans was intermittant, probably didn't start until after 100CE, and was almost certainly local and isolated until about 250 CE with the accession of Decius.



Broadly true



False. The Knights templar were only 1 of many orders of "Warrior Monks" - others include the Hospitallers, the Teutonic Order, and about 2 dozen others.



Trivial, and also true outside this timeframe.



As has every elite throughout history - including the local women's knitting circle.

Again - trivial in that it is pretty much normal human behaviour that we should all expect - is there a point to this??



fine by me

To put it politely, [Admin: impolite characterization removed]
 
Perhaps no one on this site thinks it suspicious that some of the most powerful elite men regularly attend bohemian grove for up to 2 weeks each year and either take part in or applaud and cheer the 'cremation of care' ceremony in which an effigy of a baby/child is ritually burned in front of a giant owl which symbolises the pagan god morlek, baal or morloch as it is known by many names.

This is not suspicious

www.lovethetruth.com_jis_images_cremation_of_care.jpg
 
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Perhaps no one on this site thinks it suspicious that some of the most powerful elite men regularly attend bohemian grove for up to 2 weeks each year and either take part in or applaud and cheer the 'cremation of care' ceremony in which an effigy of a baby/child is ritually burned in front of a giant owl which symbolises the pagan god morlek, baal or morloch as it is known by many names.

This is not suspicious

Seems a bit over the top . . . but . . . What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas !!!!!
 
Seems a bit over the top . . . but . . . What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas !!!!!

But is it normal?

Is it any wonder conspiracy theories abound?

Add to that the maniacal laughter and cheers mixed in with the bloodcurdling screams and this is definitely suspicious.
 
Perhaps no one on this site thinks it suspicious that some of the most powerful elite men regularly attend bohemian grove for up to 2 weeks each year and either take part in or applaud and cheer the 'cremation of care' ceremony in which an effigy of a baby/child is ritually burned in front of a giant owl which symbolises the pagan god morlek, baal or morloch as it is known by many names.

This is not suspicious

It is if you put it like that. But why don't you think it's what they say it is? A private club for wealthy people. The owl symbolizes knowledge, and what they burn symbolizes care (as in the cares of the outside world, seeing as they are at camp for two weeks). Just a bunch of rich guys having a good time, socializing, and probably doing whatever business they do at social events.

I think though you need to nail down some actual evidence. You keep tossing things up, like Madonna, and then not wanting to discuss them.
 
Was Pete Tar's post about Vagina dentata removed accidentally? I only ask out of curiosity and that I was going to respond 'lightheartedly' that it has been debunked.

I removed it because I thought it was just a joke, and the thread was getting cluttered enough as is.
 
It is if you put it like that. But why don't you think it's what they say it is? A private club for wealthy people. The owl symbolizes knowledge, and what they burn symbolizes care (as in the cares of the outside world, seeing as they are at camp for two weeks). Just a bunch of rich guys having a good time, socializing, and probably doing whatever business they do at social events.

I think though you need to nail down some actual evidence. You keep tossing things up, like Madonna, and then not wanting to discuss them.

What logical reason would I or any normal person have for thinking it symbolises, 'care' as in care of the outside world when it is symbolised by burning a baby or child with attendant screams of the victim when it is a known, going back thousands of years, pagan rite to baal which involved the scrifice of babies and children and is expressly forbidden under pain of death in the bible. Also the owls may well be a symbol of knowledge but its roots go way back... knowledge held by whom and about what?

http://cremationofcare.com/illu_freemasonry_satanic_brotherhood.htm

Dr Williams' spokesman said: "From the end of the 19th century a lot of Anglican clergy got involved in Freemasonry. In the 20th century a number of very senior clergymen were Masons. In the 1960s people started turning against the idea of secret societies and a number of Anglican ministers saw it as possibly Satanically inspired."

The influence of the Brotherhood within the Church of England has continued and the Freemasons acknowledge that many clergymen and Anglicans are members.

Leading Mason Church of England clergymen of the past include the former Archbishop of Canterbury Geoffrey Fisher, who headed the Church of England from 1945 to 1961. He held the senior post of Grand Chaplain for the United Grand Lodge of England.

Rebirth from coffins, drinking wind from skulls, this is satanic stuff.

Ok, I can understand if they feel lucifer is the light bringer and illumined mankind from the darkness and ignorance of a tyranical god.


There is a conspiracy and people know it, it was a secret... now it is not.

What will happen I don't know I sure hope that it is not the worst case scenario that people envisage.
 
What logical reason would I or any normal person have for thinking it symbolises, 'care' as in care of the outside world when it is symbolised by burning a baby or child with attendant screams of the victim when it is a known, going back thousands of years, pagan rite to baal which involved the scrifice of babies and children and is expressly forbidden under pain of death in the bible. Also the owls may well be a symbol of knowledge but its roots go way back... knowledge held by whom and about what?

http://cremationofcare.com/illu_freemasonry_satanic_brotherhood.htm

Dr Williams' spokesman said: "From the end of the 19th century a lot of Anglican clergy got involved in Freemasonry. In the 20th century a number of very senior clergymen were Masons. In the 1960s people started turning against the idea of secret societies and a number of Anglican ministers saw it as possibly Satanically inspired."

The influence of the Brotherhood within the Church of England has continued and the Freemasons acknowledge that many clergymen and Anglicans are members.

Leading Mason Church of England clergymen of the past include the former Archbishop of Canterbury Geoffrey Fisher, who headed the Church of England from 1945 to 1961. He held the senior post of Grand Chaplain for the United Grand Lodge of England.

Rebirth from coffins, drinking wind from skulls, this is satanic stuff.

Ok, I can understand if they feel lucifer is the light bringer and illumined mankind from the darkness and ignorance of a tyranical god.


There is a conspiracy and people know it, it was a secret... now it is not.

What will happen I don't know I sure hope that it is not the worst case scenario that people envisage.
People like to be on the in-crowd . . . they want to feel special . . . can these groups be used to manipulate events and be covert networks which result in members getting plumb jobs and assistance . . . you bet . . . can they change history and the course of mankind . . . good question . . .
 
Perhaps no one on this site thinks it suspicious that some of the most powerful elite men regularly attend bohemian grove for up to 2 weeks each year and either take part in or applaud and cheer the 'cremation of care' ceremony in which an effigy of a baby/child is ritually burned in front of a giant owl which symbolises the pagan god morlek, baal or morloch as it is known by many names.

This is not suspicious

www.lovethetruth.com_jis_images_cremation_of_care.jpg

From what I heard the Cremation of care is to make sure that the next two weeks of the people's stay at the bohemian grove is stress free and that there are no unfortunate happenings. This is sort of like the opening ceremony of the Olympics.

Also, they don't hail the owl, it just represents Wisdom and Knowledge.

And no, they don't burn people alive, it's a pyrotechnics show.
 
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I think this type of conspiracy theory is kind of a hole you fall into. If you believe the conspiracy exists, then you will see these meaningful coincidences everywhere. Since you already believe it, you can't see that alternative explanations. You get trapped by your belief, and find it near impossible to get out of the mental trap.

It's like the "Targeted Individual" community. They KNOW that they are being targeted, so everything around them is highly suspicious. But if they did not "know" they were being targeted, would it be suspicious?

So let's say you are already convinced there is hidden sexual or satanic imagery everywhere. Since you know it's there, you look for it, and you find it. But you are constantly bemused as to why nobody else can see it, or why they "explain it away".

The TI folk often seem very reasonable, well spoken, intelligent - just like you. But they have this odd belief that they are being followed everywhere and people are beaming voices into their heads. They often have fairly high opinion of their own intelligence, and not always without justification. But they are mentally stuck in a strange belief.

I know you don't think this of yourself. I imagine you think you are very open minded, scientific, intelligent, with good observation skills, a strong memory, a solid grasp of history, etc. And in some respects you are correct.

I imagine also your disinfo-agent radar is pinging right now, telling you that I'm trying to brainwash you, to trick you, to confuse you. But I'm not. I'm very much in favor of science and reason, not imaginative speculation.
 
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