How to prove chemtrails are just contrails?

[Mick West]

@Joe there's an existing thread on the hearing:
https://www.metabunk.org/airliner-emissions-epa-hearing.t6367/

 

[George B]

A most interesting Thread. I have wondered if there is someone the Chemtrails believers would trust. I have concluded that as an individual they might, but once exposed to the crowd behavior on a blog or forum trust turns to suspicion and then to an attack within minutes. Being polite and considerate along with the patience of Job is about the only thing that gets a reaction other than hate.

 

[Mick West]

So how about a short educational video on every flight. We may not need to address the issue with the believers directly, but as long as when someone hears them talking about 'chemtrails', they are told, "there was a short film on the flight we just went on, etc". Especially when it comes from a family member that they trust. The film doesn't have to be 'dis-info', just as long as it explains some basics about flight, including contrails and what they are.

Like this?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ChemtrailHypernetwork/permalink/1044329318911231/

 

[skephu]

Like this?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ChemtrailHypernetwork/permalink/1044329318911231/

I think that's pretty good. Of course, it's not for the hard-core believers. But people who have not yet been exposed to the chemtrail theory will be less likely to believe it if they encounter it later.

 

[JRBids]

You'd think at least the hard core believers would refrain from flying, and presumably subsidizing what they believe is the "greatest crime against humanity".

 

[Dan Page]

I am a new member, worked as a Flight Service Specialist from 1979 to 2006, got my Private Pilot License in 1983 and bought a Piper Cherokee in 1986 which I flew all over the country accumulating 550 hours Pilot in Command. I'm retired now and no longer have the plane but still follow aviation and weather. As an FSS I was trained extensively in weather as we were required to do weather observations and also deliver weather briefings to all types of pilots from private to ATP. I know that persistent contrails are NORMAL and why. It sickens me to see this chemtrail hoax being foisted on the public causing undue alarm. I've been posting tweets on some of the chemtrail sites but they don't want to listen to reason, calling me a troll and a shill and trying to ban me. I would really like to help fight the disinformation about persistant contrails being "chemtrails".
Mick, you have done a tremendous job here with this site, keep up the good work!

Dan Page

 

[Mick West]

I am a new member, worked as a Flight Service Specialist from 1979 to 2006, got my Private Pilot License in 1983 and bought a Piper Cherokee in 1986 which I flew all over the country accumulating 550 hours Pilot in Command. I'm retired now and no longer have the plane but still follow aviation and weather. As an FSS I was trained extensively in weather as we were required to do weather observations and also deliver weather briefings to all types of pilots from private to ATP. I know that persistent contrails are NORMAL and why. It sickens me to see this chemtrail hoax being foisted on the public causing undue alarm. I've been posting tweets on some of the chemtrail sites but they don't want to listen to reason, calling me a troll and a shill and trying to ban me. I would really like to help fight the disinformation about persistant contrails being "chemtrails".
Mick, you have done a tremendous job here with this site, keep up the good work!

Dan Page

Thanks Dan, and welcome to Metabunk!

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

Do something better with your retirement, Dan. Don't get bogged down in this hell hole. Life's too short.

 

[JFDee]

Do something better with your retirement, Dan.

I respectfully disagree. In my opinion it's a worthwhile cause, and as long as you don't expect instant success and keep a certain emotional distance, it does not intrude too much.

We have discussed many times what the most effective strategy is for countering bunk. My take is that persistence and polite repetition are the tools of choice. Also, it's good to always take into account potential third-party readers ("lurkers" and "googlers").

 

[Dan Page]

I read a post from 2 or 3 years ago that somebody was offering $10,000 I think it was, to have an aircraft follow behind another aircraft that was producing a persistent contrail, and sample the chemical components so as to gather proof that persistent contrails were just water vapor. Just wondering now, was that experiment ever done? If not, is there still some person (s) wanting/willing to do this? I realize that it could be difficult to find the right met conditions AND get FAA permission in the short time frame required (met condx constantly changing). Probably the best hope for success would be with military aircraft, as they are allowed to fly in formation. Anyway, just curious if this has been done.
Dan

 

[Trailspotter]

I read a post from 2 or 3 years ago that somebody was offering $10,000 I think it was, to have an aircraft follow behind another aircraft that was producing a persistent contrail, and sample the chemical components so as to gather proof that persistent contrails were just water vapor. Just wondering now, was that experiment ever done? If not, is there still some person (s) wanting/willing to do this? I realize that it could be difficult to find the right met conditions AND get FAA permission in the short time frame required (met condx constantly changing). Probably the best hope for success would be with military aircraft, as they are allowed to fly in formation. Anyway, just curious if this has been done.
Dan

Yes, it has been done. Here, for example, is how the contrail sampling was done by NASA in 2013:
NASA Researchers Sniff Out Alternate Fuel Future

The modified HU-25 Falcon probes the exhaust contrails from NASA's DC-8 flying laboratory as both aircraft enter a turn at about 35,000 feet altitude during the first data-collection flight in restricted test airspace over California's high desert.
Credits: NASA/Lori Losey

You can download a PDF of their presentation on this experiment by clicking the following link:
https://community.apan.org/afosr/m/kathy/128102/download.aspx

 

[Dan Page]

I feel that with my knowledge of meteorology, maybe a few of the chemmies might see the light, or at least ask more questions and not buy into the hoax so easily. Currently I'm just addressing tweets, and sending out a few educational tweets of my own. My tweet name is @dannodotcomm if you want to follow me. I may at sometime in the future take on some of the chemtrail forums, can anyone suggest one to start with?
It seems more and more people are buying into this hoax, and I think it may be partly to do with the late night radio show Coast to Coast AM, which now has millions of listeners all over the world thanks to the internet. I checked their website and over the last 12 years there have been about 3 dozen shows in which chemtrails have been discussed. The problem as I see it (I listen to some of their shows as they sometimes have interesting guests) is that the chemtrail "discussion" is always one sided, they never have somebody arguing the other side, explaining how and why contrails can last long and even form into cirrus cloud over time. We need someone like you Mick, to bring some truth to this hoax.
Some people that call into the show are totally convinced they are being sprayed and you can hear it in their voice, they are afraid, angry, frustrated and some even fear going outside when persistent contrails are above. This takes a mental toll on these believers, it makes me sad for them.
I believe that this radio show and Alex Jones' show are the major contributing factors to the explosion in the # of believers around the world. Linda Howe is a frequent guest on the show and she is one of the few quests that really tries to get to the truth, perhaps I will try to contact her and see if she is willing to pursue this story.
Wow, got carried away, time for bed.
Regards,
Dan Page

 

[jonnyH]

Linda Howe is a frequent guest on the show and she is one of the few quests that really tries to get to the truth, perhaps I will try to contact her and see if she is willing to pursue this story.

This Linda Howe?

Linda Moulton Howe (born January 20, 1944) is an American investigative journalist and documentarian. She is best known as a ufologist and advocate of a variety of conspiracy theories. She is well known for her investigations of cattle mutilations, and her conclusion that they are of extraterrestrial origin. She is also noted for her speculations that the U.S. government is involved with aliens

She also has her own entry in Rationalwiki which often doesn't bode well for ones credibility:

Linda Moulton Howe (born 1942) is a ufologist and "investigative journalist". Among other things, she claims that in 1983 she was shown a secret presidential briefing paper that revealed how "extraterrestrials created Jesus" and placed him on earth "to teach mankind about love and non-violence."

but then folks do say it takes a thief to catch a thief.