Episode 57: Alex Dietrich: Clouds, Critical Thinking, and UFOs

Just a quick chime-in to say that I found the section of the video BEFORE the Tic-Tac was discussed to be extremely useful. It is easy, for me at least, to think of a well-known UFO witness as being nothing else -- just a walking UFO advocate with no other characteristics or interests. Presumably they might have an analogous view of posters here.

But just as identifying/debunking these things is only one facet of (I hope all of) our lives, a single moment in the lives of folks who beleive they have seen something extraordinary is just one moment in their lives. Sure, it is possible for any of us humans to fall into a rabbit hole of obsession with something to the exclusion of almost everything else -- but for most, the interest we might become known for is one of dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of facets of our lives. Areas of potential common ground, and common humanity, shouldn't get lost in the arguments over flying saucers or whether bigfoot is real.

So thanks for that!
 
Just a quick chime-in to say that I found the section of the video BEFORE the Tic-Tac was discussed to be extremely useful. It is easy, for me at least, to think of a well-known UFO witness as being nothing else -- just a walking UFO advocate with no other characteristics or interests. Presumably they might have an analogous view of posters here.

But just as identifying/debunking these things is only one facet of (I hope all of) our lives, a single moment in the lives of folks who beleive they have seen something extraordinary is just one moment in their lives. Sure, it is possible for any of us humans to fall into a rabbit hole of obsession with something to the exclusion of almost everything else -- but for most, the interest we might become known for is one of dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of facets of our lives. Areas of potential common ground, and common humanity, shouldn't get lost in the arguments over flying saucers or whether bigfoot is real.

So thanks for that!
And it takes courage for folks to come forward with these bizarre stories that they claim happened. You lose friends, alienate family and retraumatize yourself when recounting events. Just encountering something truly bizarre can have lasting mental and physical health consequences. But it is important enough to tell others, and if possible, to not remain anonymous, to stand by your experience(s).
 
You lose friends, alienate family and retraumatize yourself when recounting events.
Any UFO experience has two aspects, the physical and the mental.
There are many examples, e.g. of pilots seeing Starlink flares, or questions that were posed on this forum, where recounting the physical aspects of the observation doesn't lead to anything what you describe.

It's the mental aspect of settling on a paranormal explanation unquestioningly that tends to alienate people. Unfortunately, nowadays it is easy to find resources and people online who will happily reinforce these beliefs, and claim that it is "important enough to tell others" and "to stand by your experience(s)", when that's really what alienates you from your actual social network, for which your new-found online "friends" are a poor substitute.
 
Not piling on, just following on from @JJB comments above. Even in the case of "confabulation, lying or hallucinating" only lying is intentional and even then not always.

Confabulation is just part of human memory, stuff gets jumbled. I've told before of my still very clear memory of meeting a guy, who is now a good friend, out in the desert. He was all set up a little ways from us with a blue Toyota Tacoma (Toyota's small truck in the US). It was several years later when he pointed out that he had been in a white RAM 2500 (a large truck from Dodge/FCA) and he'd never owned a Tacoma or a blue truck. I'd have sworn on it.

Hallucinating varies, but is often associated with mental health issues, like schizophrenia or possible hallucinogen use. But things like waking dreams are very much like hallucinations and are very common. Some people can also reach an altered like state through meditation, chanting, dancing or whatever. I also think any of us can just zone out sometimes and think we saw or experienced something, especially due to stress, exhaustion and other things life throws at us. If that something then gets a bit confabulated later it can create a false memory that feels real.

I think most of us here are careful about saying people are outright lying about something. Some do it maliciously of course, but I think a lot of what might be considered lies regarding UFOs, are more like exaggerations and tall tales. We all know that guy that tells tall tales, sometimes knowingly so and sometimes they've told them so often they now believe the stories. Are they lying? Yes and no.

Even when we look at Penniston's evolving claims, was he lying? He clearly made no mention of a notebook at the time of the incident and the note book wasn't mentioned at all until the mid '90s. And it wasn't until the mid '00s that he mentioned the telepathically transmitted binary code he supposedly wrote down the day after the event. I think it's very likely he wrote the code down at some much later date, but Ian Ridpath notes that he underwent hypnotic regression therapy in the '90s:

External Quote:

After undergoing regression hypnosis in September 1994 he seems to have become convinced that it was a craft from tens of thousands of years in the Earth's future. According to what Penniston told the hypnotist, it contained our distant descendants returning to obtain genetic material to keep their ailing species alive: 'They are time travellers. They are us,' he said.

It sounds like the plot of a B movie, and very possibly that's where it came from. A TV movie called Official Denial was broadcast on the Sci Fi channel in November 1993 and was released on video in May 1994, both within a year prior to Penniston's hypnosis. In it, an alien craft is shot down by the USAF and lands in a forest. It contains creatures that are here 'To get genetic material to help them reproduce because their race is dying out.' And where are they from? 'They're not aliens. They're us. From the future – our future.' The similarities with Penniston's story including the statement 'They are us' are striking. This would not be the first time that a UFO witness under hypnosis has told a story from false memory based on a TV show.
http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/pennistonnotebook.html

We now know this kind of therapy not only doesn't "recover" hidden memories, it often creates them. It would seem his stories are a mish-mash of what he remembers seeing that night, some confabulations, hypnotic memories and a desire to be part of the story, perhaps the main part. So, is he lying? I don't really know.

The "truth or lies" false dichotomy is a standard in UFOlogy. There is some guy that shows up over in the Ariel School thread every so often and just comments like:

"Are you saying these children , now adults , are lying ? Isn't it possible that they are just telling what they saw ?Did this ever occur to you ?."

Nobody said they were lying.

Any UFO experience has two aspects, the physical and the mental.
There are many examples, e.g. of pilots seeing Starlink flares, or questions that were posed on this forum, where recounting the physical aspects of the observation doesn't lead to anything what you describe.

It's the mental aspect of settling on a paranormal explanation unquestioningly that tends to alienate people. Unfortunately, nowadays it is easy to find resources and people online who will happily reinforce these beliefs, and claim that it is "important enough to tell others" and "to stand by your experience(s)", when that's really what alienates you from your actual social network, for which your new-found online "friends" are a poor substitute.
I think that is true much of the time, Mendel. I also think hypnosis helps to create confabulation.
 
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