Debunked: Cop Car Towed to Media Location then Torched at Million Mask March - BX10 LNV

LouV

Member
It was misdirection. Vauxhall Zafiras were recalled due to an electrical fault, and all fixed. If they were still dangerous they would have been removed from the road.
Maybe. Guess it will be difficult to have an explanation since he was banned ; I do regret it too even though I can also understand why.
(It shouldn't discourage other people to participate, provided they read the forum guidelines and are willing to discuss.)
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
It's a good thing you Brits spell everything wrong. ;) It make these things easier.
Just as Terry Pratchett said about a significant difference between Europeans and Americans:
A European says: I can't understand this, what's wrong with me? An American says: I can't understand this, what's wrong with him?
Content from External Source
 

Balance

Senior Member.
AFAIK, re the ZafiraB recall, it related only to those cars with automatic aircon. Suspicion was a component (resistor pack?) would overheat (and catch fire) if the heater blower was commanded full speed while the pollen filter was dirty/clogged (restricting airflow to the cabin). Non-a/c and manual a/c cars were unaffected.

And as for the origin of the meme, I'm pretty sure I know who (a UK activist) made it but I can't provide evidence. He first phrased the false flag allegation (once MSM released the video) and later that day created the meme. Within an hour, it was debunked by his activist "friends" (some of which consequently unfriended him). But as they say, a lie can travel half way round the planet (or at least to Texas) before the truth can get it's boots on.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
Your say-so is irrelevant, your photographic evidence is absent but would at best be inconclusive, and your failure to join us in demanding @MetPoliceUK release the records on BX10-LNV betrays who butters your bread (or your lack of intestinal fortitude).

What is it you're looking for?


  • Vehicle make VAUXHALL
  • Vehicle model ZAFIRA
  • Date first used 1 July 2010
  • Fuel type Diesel
  • Colour Silver

MOT history of this vehicle


  • Test date 11 September 2015
  • Expiry date 21 September 2016
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 66,246 miles
  • MOT test number 9097 5488 9087

  • Test date 22 September 2014
  • Expiry date 21 September 2015
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 48,399 miles
  • MOT test number 6264 5526 4286

  • Test date 13 June 2013
  • Expiry date 1 July 2014
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 35,295 miles
  • MOT test number 6197 9496 3192
Content from External Source
MOT's are not required on new vehicles until their 3rd Anniversary.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
And as for the origin of the meme, I'm pretty sure I know who (a UK activist) made it but I can't provide evidence. He first phrased the false flag allegation (once MSM released the video)
unless my computer time stamp is off again, i see the 'accusation' first implied around 11pm (so 4 am in england? - so yea my computer might be off by 3 hours again) and the meme shows at 2 am my time (7 am english time?)
 

Balance

Senior Member.
Deidre, relying on my memory is hopeless. I know I was feeling very tired and after seeing it evolve (on facebook) and the ensuing divisions it caused sent me off to bed, otherwise I may have been more vigilant in taking notes, and now, following the resultant "cull" it's lost, sorry. :oops:
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
I think the point is to be reiterated here./

The photo of the car being towed was taken in 2011. There are photos IN THIS THREAD of the car driving around taken as recently as March of this year This is not proof or evidence that the car that was set fire to was in any way towed to the location on the MMM date or was in any way unserviceable at that time.

Likewise, the claims that the people who vandalised the car were undercover police officers are so far just that. Claims. Nobody has yet come forward with any evidence or explanation as to why these people are believed to be undercover officers.

So the OP claim is debunked. This is NOT evidence of a Psyop on that date.

Like most other claims on this site that are debunked, this does not mean that it was NOT a psyop by undercover officers, just that this claim of evidence does not stand up to scrutiny and should not be used as claims for that scenario.

Currently there is no real reason to think that the torching of the car was anything other than the met said it was. " An Isolated incident, well away from the main area of the protest."
Any speculation as to whether the carburners were MMM Marchers, random thugs or undercover cops will be simply speculation until their identity becomes known. At least 2 people at the scene were not wearing masks and one associate of one of the vandals had no face covering at all.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
What is it you're looking for?


  • Test date 22 September 2014
  • Expiry date 21 September 2015
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 48,399 miles
  • MOT test number 6264 5526 4286

  • Test date 13 June 2013
  • Expiry date 1 July 2014
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 35,295 miles
  • MOT test number 6197 9496 3192
Content from External Source

Met Police in "driving car with no MoT for nearly three months" shocker!

(Or it was kept off road for that time. Honest!)
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Met Police in "driving car with no MoT for nearly three months" shocker!

(Or it was kept off road for that time. Honest!)
Well I hope they SORNed it. Well maybe there;s something to pin on the MET after all. Get looking for photos of this car driving around taken between 1st July and 22nd September 2014.

(although, when was that recall? Perhaps Vauxhall had it)
 

Gary Cook

Active Member
I think the point is to be reiterated here./

The photo of the car being towed was taken in 2011. There are photos IN THIS THREAD of the car driving around taken as recently as March of this year This is not proof or evidence that the car that was set fire to was in any way towed to the location on the MMM date or was in any way unserviceable at that time.

Likewise, the claims that the people who vandalised the car were undercover police officers are so far just that. Claims. Nobody has yet come forward with any evidence or explanation as to why these people are believed to be undercover officers.

So the OP claim is debunked. This is NOT evidence of a Psyop on that date.

Like most other claims on this site that are debunked, this does not mean that it was NOT a psyop by undercover officers, just that this claim of evidence does not stand up to scrutiny and should not be used as claims for that scenario.

Currently there is no real reason to think that the torching of the car was anything other than the met said it was. " An Isolated incident, well away from the main area of the protest."
Any speculation as to whether the carburners were MMM Marchers, random thugs or undercover cops will be simply speculation until their identity becomes known. At least 2 people at the scene were not wearing masks and one associate of one of the vandals had no face covering at all.

"Real reason" is still subjective and an opnion. My opinion is, I think people have real reasons for believing this is likely a false flag but the evidence presented in the theory mentioned about the car in that picture is obviously bunk, as Mick masterfully demonstrates.
 

LouV

Member
"Real reason" is still subjective and an opnion. My opinion is, I think people have real reasons for believing this is likely a false flag but the evidence presented in the theory mentioned about the car in that picture is obviously bunk, as Mick masterfully demonstrates.
Oh, I think that was the point (hence the "currently"). Maybe more convincing evidence exist somewhere, but if someone simply tell people there is "overwhelming evidence" and to "do their own research" instead of simply providing it, they are not doing their case a favor. (Even more so if contradicting evidence appears, such as "the car was undrivable since 2010" / "a cop was seen driving it just that day")
 

LouV

Member
As a matter of fact, I have come across this bizarre claim :
There's a 4yr 8mth gap between these 2 pics. Met cars have a lifespan of 3-5yrs.
Content from External Source
The same Twitter account then posted this blog, which repeat this claim (among others which could be checked too):
Why is this significant? Metropolitan Police vehicles have a servicing lifespan of 3 – 5 years. The Met replaces or upgrades between 800 and 1,000 vehicles each year. Isn’t this car a little old for service?
Content from External Source
I am pretty intrigued by these precise numbers ; this thread has already provided a number of resources to check Met cars' age.
(Also, I am puzzled by the "too old for service" comment, given that the car was less than 5 years old.)
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
As a matter of fact, I have come across this bizarre claim :
There's a 4yr 8mth gap between these 2 pics. Met cars have a lifespan of 3-5yrs.
Content from External Source
The same Twitter account then posted this blog, which repeat this claim (among others which could be checked too):
Why is this significant? Metropolitan Police vehicles have a servicing lifespan of 3 – 5 years. The Met replaces or upgrades between 800 and 1,000 vehicles each year. Isn’t this car a little old for service?
Content from External Source
I am pretty intrigued by these precise numbers ; this thread has already provided a number of resources to check Met cars' age.
(Also, I am puzzled by the "too old for service" comment, given that the car was less than 5 years old.)
i imagine, like all cars, it has to do more with mileage than "years". @Balance gave us some numbers
MOT history of this vehicle


  • Test date 11 September 2015
  • Expiry date 21 September 2016
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 66,246 miles
  • MOT test number 9097 5488 9087

  • Test date 22 September 2014
  • Expiry date 21 September 2015
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 48,399 miles
  • MOT test number 6264 5526 4286

  • Test date 13 June 2013
  • Expiry date 1 July 2014
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 35,295 miles
  • MOT test number 6197 9496 3192
Content from External Source

I dont know about how England does things but...
an article on NYCity vehicles
A traffic agent car ages out after about five years — a longer lifespan than a patrol car, which ages out at three and a half years. Though that may sound like a short life span to the average civilian car owner, police cars are run around the clock, all year long. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...affic-cars-are-looking-like-police-cars/?_r=0
Content from External Source

Shorewood, Whitefish Bay, Bayside and Mequon departments typically wait until their police vehicles have at least 100,000 miles before replacing them.

But the Fox Point Police Department retires its cars much earlier — usually when they hit about 65,000 miles. And while Police Chief Tom Czaja says his department is saving money by doing so, his North Shore counterparts aren't sure that's the case. http://patch.com/wisconsin/foxpoint/how-often-should-squad-cars-be-replaced
Content from External Source
Heres a police car in UK for sale at 132,000 miles.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/volvo/ex-police-volvo-v50-170bhp/1141605079

Ex-Police Zaphira, 105,000 miles
http://www.motors.co.uk/car-37513231/sp

and a few more:

Capture.PNG
 
Last edited:

Efftup

Senior Member.
I would be interested to know where precisely they got this information about the Met replacing their cars from. I doubt that their budget has gone up significantly in the last 2 years.

I have found HERE: a pdf which is a response to a freedom information request asking for details of EVERY Met Police vehicle.

So as of March 2013, while most of the vehicles were no more than 5 years old, the youngest being approximately a year old, some of the cars were up to about 10 years old, including some of the IRVs (IRV being Immediate response Vehicle)

It certainly depends what the vehicle is used for and they probably replace based on mileage more than simple age.
 

Ray Von Geezer

Senior Member.
Well I hope they SORNed it. Well maybe there;s something to pin on the MET after all. Get looking for photos of this car driving around taken between 1st July and 22nd September 2014.

(although, when was that recall? Perhaps Vauxhall had it)
I don't think declaring SORN is required for an expired MOT, even today, it's just for tax and insurance. It does look like it was taxed as the renewal anniversary has been preserved (they're nil rated so why wouldn't they), and it'd be on a group policy.

But like you say, if we can find evidence they drove it, we've got the b#?!#rds!! :D

Ray Von
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Can I remind our UK correspondents that not everyone knows what your arcane imperialist lacky abbreviations mean - so please take a b it of time to explain them in thread, at least once??

Even us only-recently-released-from-the-apron-strings ex-colonials do not have SORN (statutary off road notification) - we just put registration "on hold" for a bit (like I do for my 1976 Triumph Stag every winter) - or MOT - we have a Warrant of Fitness examination
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
Can I remind our UK correspondents that not everyone knows what your arcane imperialist lacky abbreviations mean - so please take a b it of time to explain them in thread, at least once??

Even us only-recently-released-from-the-apron-strings ex-colonials do not have SORN (statutary off road notification) - we just put registration "on hold" for a bit (like I do for my 1976 Triumph Stag every winter) - or MOT - we have a Warrant of Fitness examination
well you should just talk proper English like what we does.
 

derrick06

Active Member
Great post. Not only does it successfully debunk the claim but clearly makes you realize... How does this make any sense? If you wanted to convince people there was a terror attack or crime when there wasn't why tow a car to be burned when you could just blow up one that is already there? I live near Boston and the bomber conspiracies had me feeling the same way. What sense does it even make to have a fake explosion and have people fake being injured when you could just set a real bomb off? It's kind of laughable the logic behind these theories. It's good for people to be skeptical and question everything but to simply jump to a conclusion like that without looking at evidence makes no sense. :rolleyes:
 
i imagine, like all cars, it has to do more with mileage than "years". @Balance gave us some numbers
MOT history of this vehicle


  • Test date 11 September 2015
  • Expiry date 21 September 2016
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 66,246 miles
  • MOT test number 9097 5488 9087

  • Test date 22 September 2014
  • Expiry date 21 September 2015
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 48,399 miles
  • MOT test number 6264 5526 4286

  • Test date 13 June 2013
  • Expiry date 1 July 2014
  • Test Result Pass
  • Odometer reading 35,295 miles
  • MOT test number 6197 9496 3192
Content from External Source

I dont know about how England does things but...
an article on NYCity vehicles
A traffic agent car ages out after about five years — a longer lifespan than a patrol car, which ages out at three and a half years. Though that may sound like a short life span to the average civilian car owner, police cars are run around the clock, all year long. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...affic-cars-are-looking-like-police-cars/?_r=0
Content from External Source

Shorewood, Whitefish Bay, Bayside and Mequon departments typically wait until their police vehicles have at least 100,000 miles before replacing them.

But the Fox Point Police Department retires its cars much earlier — usually when they hit about 65,000 miles. And while Police Chief Tom Czaja says his department is saving money by doing so, his North Shore counterparts aren't sure that's the case. http://patch.com/wisconsin/foxpoint/how-often-should-squad-cars-be-replaced
Content from External Source
Heres a police car in UK for sale at 132,000 miles.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/volvo/ex-police-volvo-v50-170bhp/1141605079

Ex-Police Zaphira, 105,000 miles
http://www.motors.co.uk/car-37513231/sp

and a few more:

Capture.PNG

I'm a vice mayor of a small US town (and was the mayor, as well). I'm intimately involved with when our police cars need replacing, as the fiscal oversight for the Town is my current responsibility. With an annual budget of about $700K, purchasing a $28K patrol car gets my attention. The point I'd like to make is that for police cars, you can't just consider miles driven. In the US, patrol cars often sit for hours with the engine idling in order to provide power to the radio, electronics, environmental, etc. Generally, you have to figure about a 3x1 ratio of "idling hours" to "miles" to gauge the lifespan of the patrol car. In our experience, after about 70-90K miles driven, your patrol car needs to be replaced. The maintenance is no longer worth the cost of not purchasing a new vehicle.
 
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