#### AmberRobot

##### Senior Member.

This is the best illustration I've ever seen of what happens with refraction. Looking out at a featureless expanse of ocean is a terrible way to try to understand it, because there is nothing to point at that tells you where the horizon is. But looking across a lake at a fixed and immobile shoreline and seeing how itsappearanceis definitely changing gives a much clearer explanation of the effect.

Agree here!

To me, "honest" observation implies the use of quantitative measurements, to mitigate subjective bias, supported by a mathematical framework for analysis of the observations. It is clear to me that Flat Earthers *do not* do this; if they did they would extremely quickly realize their model fails to reproduce reality. They have a pre-ordained conclusion to reach and use whatever logic they can concoct to support that. *Avoiding* quantitative mathematical analysis is part and parcel to their modus operandi.I know, there are undoubtedly FE people who would come up with "reasons", but no honest observer could fail to acknowledge the changes.