1. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    Here is a section of a flat earth video by Eric Dubay. I’ve been creating a debunking site for this at http://roundearthsense.blogspot.co.uk/


    At this point, (around 29 minutes, duration around 30 seconds, link/video below starts at the correct spot) the video shows a clip of the setting sun, in which the sun seems to get much smaller as it sets. This is not something I’ve ever seen or heard described, but it is apparently consistent in some ways with what passes for a model by Mr Dubay ( a disk earth with sun and moon spiralling above it,)


    I’d be interested if anyone can

    a) Identify the source of this video clip and

    b) Explain what is actually happening here

    c) Explain with evidence how the effect has been faked

    Please notice that it's the video visuals rather than the voiceover claim that I am addressing.

     
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  2. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    It is not the Sun is shrinking, it is the Sun's glare diminishes. One needs to use a dense filter, like welders glass, to remove the glare in order to see the actual diameter of the Sun. In this video it approximately corresponds to the diameter of the lens flare below (encircled). As the Sun sets, the flare gets dimmer, but its diameter remains the same:
    Screen Shot 2016-03-17 at 18.26.00.

    PS I got a similar effect in my time lapse video of sunset (attached)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    A simple way to show this would be to film the sun, with the surrounding glare, and pass a dense filter in front of the lens to show the size of the actual sun.
     
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  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    You can also use the "offset refection" trick to get a real image of the sun alongside the giant flared image.

    [​IMG]

    20160317-122224-6ifek.
     
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  5. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    Side by side sunset with and without filter.

     
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  6. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    I took some pictures a few days ago, first without, second with a solar filter. The effect of oversaturation (glare) is very clear
    upload_2016-3-17_21-15-36. upload_2016-3-17_21-15-59.
     
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  7. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    At the same day I photographed the sun shortly after sunrise, and again at noon (with filter). The camera settings were identical. The apparent diameter of the sun is exactly the same
    upload_2016-3-17_21-32-35. upload_2016-3-17_21-32-53.
     
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  8. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    I thought the opposite was true - that the sun increased in apparent size as it sets, (or rises).
     
  9. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    It clearly doesn't, as shown above.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    You can also check the size of the sun image to see if it's "correct".

    Here is a photo showing the small green lens-flare image of the sun familiar to anyone who takes iPhone photos.

    IMG_9842.JPG

    That was taken on an iPhone 6 which has a field of view (along the long side) of about 63.5 degrees.

    The image height is 3264 pixels. The diameter of the sun image is about 31 pixels (it's slightly smeared out, so not exact).

    upload_2016-3-17_20-43-22.


    So the angular diameter of the sun is:

    31/3264 x 63.5 = 0.60º.

    The accepted angular diameter of the sun as viewed from Earth is about 32 arcminutes, or 0.53º.

    Given that the lens flare image appears to bleed/smear out slightly, that is pretty good agreement.
     
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  11. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    I know it doesn't really increase in size - I was referring to the huge, often flattened, sun or moon we often see low on the horizon, when either rising or setting. It looks huge to the naked eye, but it's just an effect of refraction.
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    But if you measure it, the apparent size really doesn't (usually) increase. It's not refraction, it's just an optical illusion.
     
  13. Balance

    Balance Senior Member

    That refraction you mention, (optically) reduces it's height rather than increase it's width.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
     
  14. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    Oh, I'm aware of that - the moon illusion and all that.

    I just thought the 'squashing' or flattening you sometimes see, as the sun is setting, was due to refraction.
     
  15. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    Yes, I've no problem with that. It was the bizarre nature of the claim that the sun shrinks to a point when setting, in the opening video, that got me involved in this thread - to the naked eye, the exact opposite happens as the sun sets.
     
  16. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    Excellent - just what i was looking for. Thanks to you and to everyone who commented.
     
  17. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    Yes, that's sometimes called the Moon illusion, because it's easier to see with the moon, I suppose. It's a kind of framing effect, I think.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_illusion

    But that's different from this effect.
     
  18. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    What I found surprising about this is the small angular diameter of the sun, compared to the subjective appearance. That's what threw me off when I looked at the original flat-earth video, and made me suspect trickery.
     
  19. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    Your pinky nail held at arm's length is about twice as wide as the Sun.
     
  20. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    Amazing how tiny it is, isn't it! I wonder if a pinky would also cover the earth, if we were looking at the earth from the moon (hypothetically, without spacesuit gloves on!), or would we need to graduate to our middle finger or thumb?
     
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  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The Earth is quite a bit bigger than the Moon, you'd need 3 or 4 fingers to cover it if you were standing on the Moon.
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

    Yes, you're probably right!
     
  23. Inti

    Inti Active Member

    That's a striking way to look at it.
     
  24. Raymond

    Raymond New Member

    Here is a streetlight that is bigger in the night than in the day. The same camera effect as with the shrinking sun.
    streetlamp.
     
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  25. David Ridlen

    David Ridlen Member

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  26. Akantor

    Akantor Banned Banned

    For some reason, whenever I try to watch that video it doesn't load.
     
  27. M Bornong

    M Bornong Senior Member

    Unfortunately, the owner of that video has put it on private. I think it was a Dazza the Cameraman video.
     
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  28. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    it plays for me.. is it playing for you now?
    upload_2016-8-3_22-1-19.
     
  29. Sagittarius

    Sagittarius Member

  30. Akantor

    Akantor Banned Banned