Sun apparently shrinking as it sets

Inti

Senior Member.
Here is a section of a flat earth video by Eric Dubay. I’ve been creating a debunking site for this at http://roundearthsense.blogspot.co.uk/


At this point, (around 29 minutes, duration around 30 seconds, link/video below starts at the correct spot) the video shows a clip of the setting sun, in which the sun seems to get much smaller as it sets. This is not something I’ve ever seen or heard described, but it is apparently consistent in some ways with what passes for a model by Mr Dubay ( a disk earth with sun and moon spiralling above it,)


I’d be interested if anyone can

a) Identify the source of this video clip and

b) Explain what is actually happening here

c) Explain with evidence how the effect has been faked

Please notice that it's the video visuals rather than the voiceover claim that I am addressing.

 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
It is not the Sun is shrinking, it is the Sun's glare diminishes. One needs to use a dense filter, like welders glass, to remove the glare in order to see the actual diameter of the Sun. In this video it approximately corresponds to the diameter of the lens flare below (encircled). As the Sun sets, the flare gets dimmer, but its diameter remains the same:
Screen Shot 2016-03-17 at 18.26.00.png

PS I got a similar effect in my time lapse video of sunset (attached)
 

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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
A simple way to show this would be to film the sun, with the surrounding glare, and pass a dense filter in front of the lens to show the size of the actual sun.
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
I took some pictures a few days ago, first without, second with a solar filter. The effect of oversaturation (glare) is very clear
upload_2016-3-17_21-15-36.pngupload_2016-3-17_21-15-59.png
 

Henk001

Senior Member.
At the same day I photographed the sun shortly after sunrise, and again at noon (with filter). The camera settings were identical. The apparent diameter of the sun is exactly the same
upload_2016-3-17_21-32-35.pngupload_2016-3-17_21-32-53.png
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
You can also check the size of the sun image to see if it's "correct".

Here is a photo showing the small green lens-flare image of the sun familiar to anyone who takes iPhone photos.

IMG_9842.JPG

That was taken on an iPhone 6 which has a field of view (along the long side) of about 63.5 degrees.

The image height is 3264 pixels. The diameter of the sun image is about 31 pixels (it's slightly smeared out, so not exact).

upload_2016-3-17_20-43-22.png


So the angular diameter of the sun is:

31/3264 x 63.5 = 0.60º.

The accepted angular diameter of the sun as viewed from Earth is about 32 arcminutes, or 0.53º.

Given that the lens flare image appears to bleed/smear out slightly, that is pretty good agreement.
 

Sagittarius

Member
It clearly doesn't, as shown above.
I know it doesn't really increase in size - I was referring to the huge, often flattened, sun or moon we often see low on the horizon, when either rising or setting. It looks huge to the naked eye, but it's just an effect of refraction.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
I know it doesn't really increase in size - I was referring to the huge, often flattened, sun or moon we often see low on the horizon, when either rising or setting. It looks huge to the naked eye, but it's just an effect of refraction.
But if you measure it, the apparent size really doesn't (usually) increase. It's not refraction, it's just an optical illusion.
 

Balance

Senior Member.
I know it doesn't really increase in size - I was referring to the huge, often flattened, sun or moon we often see low on the horizon, when either rising or setting. It looks huge to the naked eye, but it's just an effect of refraction.
That refraction you mention, (optically) reduces it's height rather than increase it's width.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
 

Sagittarius

Member
But if you measure it, the apparent size really doesn't (usually) increase. It's not refraction, it's just an optical illusion.
Oh, I'm aware of that - the moon illusion and all that.

I just thought the 'squashing' or flattening you sometimes see, as the sun is setting, was due to refraction.
 

Sagittarius

Member
That refraction you mention, (optically) reduces it's height rather than increase it's width.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction
Yes, I've no problem with that. It was the bizarre nature of the claim that the sun shrinks to a point when setting, in the opening video, that got me involved in this thread - to the naked eye, the exact opposite happens as the sun sets.
 

Inti

Senior Member.
Side by side sunset with and without filter.

What I found surprising about this is the small angular diameter of the sun, compared to the subjective appearance. That's what threw me off when I looked at the original flat-earth video, and made me suspect trickery.
 

Sagittarius

Member
Your pinky nail held at arm's length is about twice as wide as the Sun.
Amazing how tiny it is, isn't it! I wonder if a pinky would also cover the earth, if we were looking at the earth from the moon (hypothetically, without spacesuit gloves on!), or would we need to graduate to our middle finger or thumb?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Amazing how tiny it is, isn't it! I wonder if a pinky would also cover the earth, if we were looking at the earth from the moon (hypothetically, without spacesuit gloves on!), or would we need to graduate to our middle finger or thumb?
The Earth is quite a bit bigger than the Moon, you'd need 3 or 4 fingers to cover it if you were standing on the Moon.
 
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