1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    20171116-065927-ly65m.

    This article starts out praising the usefulness of YouTube, then has a brief diversion in YouTube videos as evidence of Satanic Abuse, and then changes into something that I can't tell if it's rejecting or supporting the the Flat Earth hypothesis:

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/316642-youtube-art-investigation-research/ http://archive.is/ntPJR
    At first I couldn't figure out if he thinks the Earth is flat or not.

    The writer, Sam Gerrans, has a complicated web site and ebook dedicated to his personal interpretation of the Quran. His other articles on RT^ are largely socially conservative, nationalistic and pro Russia opinion pieces.

    His articles on his blog are something different:
    https://www.quranite.com/flat-earth-quran/ (http://archive.is/z2ZTK)
    So he does believe the Earth is flat. Eric Dubay and Jeranism are two of the most shared promoters of the Flat Earth theory - and Rowbotham is the 19th Century originator of many of the more ridiculous claims of evidence they still use today.

    So what's going on? Does RT just have really lax editorial standards? Is this just like a blog that happens to be hosted on RT? Or does RT actually approve of these articles written by and eccentric muslim Flat Earther? Are they simply promoting different voices, or is there some broader goal in promoting conspiracy theories as extreme as Flat Earth?
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The author of the RT article, Sam Geerans, also say the Quran predicts "Chemtrails"

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t4IvTzeIdo

     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    it sounds to me, by his wording, that he believes the earth is flat. btw..
    just for point of reference from someone who understands very little 'complicated science', the tilt thing is not hard at all to understand!

    But ultimately the "article" is under "Op-Edge".
    upload_2017-11-13_21-37-1.


    so it is definitely an opinion piece. Russia is very proud of their space program. Perhaps the paper concluded, wrongly.. imo, he decided the earth is not Flat. or they are just trying to get conspiracy theorists -or Russian young citizens who are doubting THEIR gov - more on board with RT so they will believe RT's other bunk.
     

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  4. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    RT is just doing what it does best: dividing Americans, right?
     
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  5. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    I do not read or watch RT, so my comment may be off topic. Could it be that the RT opinion piece in OP simply reflects on the American news?

    Today on the BBC News site that I do visit regularly, the most watched piece is
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/41973119/why-do-people-still-think-the-earth-is-flat

    The FE supporters worldwide become noticeable. Yesterday I spotted a few of their comments to another BBC piece on the Venus and Jupiter conjunction:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41956191
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  6. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    Nice little film, that. Definitely mocking in tone, but gentle enough not to be offensive. :)
     
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  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It seems that way at first glance, however the writer of the piece does actually claim to be a believer in a Quran inspired Flat Earth, as well as Quran inspired chemtrails, and probably the whole raft of other theories. He's toned it down a bit for RT, but it's clear after reading his other work (on his blog and Youtube channel) that when he said
    That he actually thought he found was was on a fixed plane in the center of things.

    This kind of reminds me of Abby Martin, one of their more well known presenters on RT TV. When RT recruited her in 2012 she was a solid 9/11 Controlled Demolition Truther.

    Of course this guy is more extreme in his pseudoscience.

    RT has also used Veteran's Today (a "jews did it, and everything is fake" general conspiracy site masquerading as an actual Veteran-related news site) as a source several times. In fact Sam Gerrans references VT as an example of a US site that supports Russia:
    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/322690-russia-savior-decadent-west/
    The question here, likely unanswerable, is to what extent is this just poor journalistic standards on RT's part, and to what extent is it the result of an active measures subversion agenda?
     
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  8. FatEarther

    FatEarther New Member

    There's your answer right there Mick.
     
  9. FlightMuj

    FlightMuj Active Member

    @FatEarther I think this is the complete sentence.
     
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  10. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Indeed, but that's from his blog, my point was the RT article was ambiguous - like he was slipping it by the editors.
     
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  11. OTACHI

    OTACHI New Member

    I know this guy called Sam Gerrans,i know him for some Islam related stuff,i think he is [...] making his own version of Islam and wild claims.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2017
  12. Atomic Nixon

    Atomic Nixon New Member

    Seeing as the entire US media and much of the international has bought the whole "Russia hacked the DNC" narrative without question I won't stare too hard at this. What I find much more harmful is their anti-GMO position and specifically their anti-glyphosate propagandizing. This doesn't set them apart from their western comrades either.
     
  13. Vostok

    Vostok New Member

    As someone who checks out both RT and Sputnik international on a regular bases to see how things look on the other side of the fence, I'd say there's a fat chance of either supporting a flat earth.

    To be specific, at least in Sputnik's case, it releases a lot of click-bait articles about UFOs and the like, but always directs the article to a scientific explanation or an official statement.

    Regarding RT, well, as it was already pointed out that the article was opinion. Enough said.

    And in a wider context, both outlets have no shortage of articles boasting about the Soviet space race contribution and the various milestones. It doesn't make too much sense for them to suddenly start a flat earth campaign, especially if their mission is, as most in the west put it, to push the position of the Kremlin.

    As a final note. the Opinion articles I've seen on both RT and Sputnik are quite diverse in their expressed views. Naturally you get some that advocate some religious message, others do the opposite. Some praise the Russians, and on occasion, some condemn them.

    Some links to related articles:
    - https://www.rt.com/news/405678-flat-earth-theory-space-video/
    - https://www.rt.com/uk/410845-earth-flat-flintoff-conspiracy/
    - https://sputniknews.com/art_living/201502191018464253/

    The language in these articles that are actually published by the outlet tell a different story. They use phrases like "Ridiculous remarks" when referring to certain unscientific views. But make of it what you will.
     
  14. Mtumzima

    Mtumzima New Member

    i still can't believe that there are people who believe the earth is flat, like really?
     
  15. Trailspotter

    Trailspotter Senior Member

    Whether you can believe or not, it's a fact :mad:
     
  16. Unique Name

    Unique Name New Member

    Good site.

    But then I found it disheartening that the referenced article is here in the present context. It's not even remotely about flat earth, it's about youtube and, in part, how it gives absolutely anybody a platform/soapbox. It's about what can happen because of that. Flat earth is only an example. And this youtube thing happens to be a very interesting topic at the moment because it stands at the heart of the issues of the day: populism, tribalism, "the crisis of democracy", etc.

    But instead of respecting the article for what it is, you latched on, clearly because it's RT, and posed your central question, are they supporting flat earth or not? Really? You are saying journalists are supposed to take sides now? Flat or geoid, there is something wrong with the shape of that world.

    And surely if it's RT you're trying to somehow besmirch, drawing attention to their impartiality isn't likely your best bet.

    And then you go on to propose some kind of conspiracy on the part of RT, some "broader goal", well, Mr Debunker, if you're in the business of concocting such preposterous theories I'm inclined to invite you to take your rightful place among the flat earthers.

    Sorry. I've grown tired of vital news agencies being further marginalised by the gullible. You need to hear from all sides if you want any chance at the truth.
     
  17. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The point here is that the author is a flat earth believer who has been given a platform to share his beliefs on RT. That's what I'm focussing on. The fact that he also discusses other topics is not relevant.

    Journalists should be on the side of truth and accuracy, yes. The shape of the Earth is demonstrably not something where they need to be impartial.

    The idea that RT is attempting to muddy the waters of western discourse is hardly new, or even controversial. It's impossible to know if any one specific action is a deliberate choice, or just an emergent result of their general policies. Here I suspect the latter, but with less extreme conspiracy theories there's a high likely hood that they are deliberately promoting them.
     
  18. DavidB66

    DavidB66 New Member

    It is an unavoidable part of flat earth doctrine that the government and space agencies of Russia, and formerly of the Soviet Union, are part of a global - sorry, world-wide - conspiracy to suppress the flat earth truth. So it is hardly likely that RT would be genuinely endorsing such a doctrine. Let alone Sputnik, for obvious reasons. This would not prevent them from mischief-making aimed at Western audiences, which is a large part of their raison d'etre.
     
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  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And just to be absolutely clear: it's the "mischief-making" that I'm suggesting RT is engaging in here.
     
  20. Unique Name

    Unique Name New Member

    That's the problem. It goes something like this:

    Western Media: Certain alternative news agencies are telling you that things are happening differently to the way we say they are happening. They're a bunch of liars.

    Most Western People: Sure thing. We believe you without question. We'd never doubt the legitimacy of our own side.

    So yes, the world is definitely not flat. But the worldview we're all being encouraged to have is worse than flat, it's one-sided.
     
  21. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    False. Most American's don't trust the media or the government.
    http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/main-stream-media-continue-to-lose-the-publics-trust
    http://www.people-press.org/2017/05...ar-historic-lows-as-partisan-attitudes-shift/
     
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  22. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    I do find those stats interesting, and am glad you posted them.

    Though the previous assertion was about "most western people", not just Americans.
     
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Feel free to add the missing information.
     
  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  25. Clouds Givemethewillies

    Clouds Givemethewillies Active Member

  26. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It would be interesting to see a poll that includes RT.
     
  28. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    Can you provide examples of this? While the mainstream news has reported on the modern phenomenom of fake news, it seems more in the way of interest and analysis rather than suppressing alternative viewpoints.

    What is the "worldview we're all being encouraged to have"? I don't personally feel I'm being encouraged to have any particular worldview - and I imagine many people will feel the same.

    I suppose it's difficult to separate out "trust the government to tell us the truth" with "trust the government to run the economy" or "trust the government to make correct foreign policy decisions" (et cetera).

    That is a good score. Perhaps especially good given it comes from a survey of the public:

    https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/aboutth...bc_report_trust_and_impartiality_nov_2017.pdf

    Moreso it means that there's a 64% chance the public don't think the BBC is spinning or lying.

    I suppose a more accurate measure of the BBC's impartiality would have to be carried out by someone impartial. ;)
     
  29. Keith Beachy

    Keith Beachy Active Member

    RT has been a platform for fringe claims, and conspiracy theories. RT has presented people arguing 9/11 was an inside job, UBL's death was faked. Most mainstream media explained 9/11 truth and FE are not based on evidence. RT did not explain FE is nonsense, and 9/11 truth claims were based on speculation, not evidence. RT is like the alternative news agencies spreading false claims, and supporting conspiracy theories. Not expecting real news without spin from a state run propaganda ministry.
     
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  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Of course though there are also British tabloids (e.g. Daily Star, The Sun) that are platforms for fringe claims and conspiracy theories. Then there's the "state run" BBC, which (mostly) is not. The questions is really if RT are just being tabloid-like, or is their promotion of conspiracy theories different to the tabloids?
     
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  31. qed

    qed Senior Member

    An example of RT claiming 9-11 is a false flag and worse.



    • Funded and planned by With House - operation Gladio.
    • Decades of terrorist attacks against there own people organized by CIA and White House.
    • Enumerable regular meetings between US representataives and Bin Ladin's deputies, claims whistle blower Sibel Edmons.
    • WT7 collapse defies physics.
    • Etc
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
  32. Clouds Givemethewillies

    Clouds Givemethewillies Active Member

    The government of the day (and presumably some supporters), particularly to the right, tend to accuse them of political bias. This is somewhat reassuring IMO.