1. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    It is an interesting time that we live in that people have so little understanding of science or memory of history that they automatically believe that a tornado in tornado alley in May must have been artificially created by The Powers That Be for some nefarious purpose.

    OK Tornado cause by HAARP to distract the public from white house scandals? Possible PROOF! ?!?

    Moore, Oklahoma Tornado - May 20, 2013 - H.A.A.R.P - Coincidence?
    Published on May 20, 2013

    This tornado was enormous, it destroyed lives, homes, buildings, schools & businesses. The destruction is endless. The timing of this catastrophe is beyond coincidental. Is there a H.A.A.R.P connection?


    • Like Like x 1
  2. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    It is rather insulting, especially for a guy who watched this thing from its development to its dissipation on KFOR in Oklahoma City. Dutchsinse was quick to try and point to HAARP manipulation via a radar dome in Moore.
  3. jvnk08

    jvnk08 Active Member

    Of course it is, I was waiting for this to crop up. Unfortunately for the conspiracy theorists, there is still plenty of attention being paid to the ongoing White House scandals alongside this.

    The other explanation I've seen(along with all other natural disasters blamed on HAARP) is that this is all to encourage movement to the cities with more uniform climates, where we're.... more easily controlled?
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think we've reached a stage where EVERY single large news event is going to be suspected as being part of a conspiracy theory.

    The reason for this is that for some people they are now mentally unable to believe ANY official story, even if it's something as simple as a weather forecast. Because to admit that some official stories are true is somehow the start of a mental slippery slope to admitting that more official stories are true.

    I've noticed that after a topic has been explained, the theorists often end with a statement like "well, you are an idiot if you trust the government".

    To be effective in communicating with such people, you have to somehow get across that not trusting the government is not the same thing as automatically believing the opposite of whatever they say.
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  5. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    It's insulting and DEEPLY offensive to someone who is an employee of the National Weather Service. I joined the NWS in part because the agency's mission is to save lives and property, not murder innocent schoolchildren as many of these.....people....are implying.

    And, of course, right on queue, Dutchsinse has released a "pulse confirmation" video because one of those square rendering artifacts, the explanation of which has been relayed to him uncounted times, appeared on Intellicast the evening before.

    Quoting one of his comments on his Facebook page "I heard this too!!! was classic.. "background clutter" BS.. Meanwhile a pulsing scalar square just out of frame and a huge ring illuminated even though the ACTUAL background clutter is being eliminated !!!
    LOL but no lol.. not funny.. its sad"

    No Dutchsinse, YOUR IMPLICATIONS are sad....very sad...
  6. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I remember seeing You Tube where someone 'claimed' that the Joplin tornado was 'steered' by HAARP and that they had 'predicted it'. Then a poster there came up the evidence that the You Tube had been altered after the tornado had hit to make it seem like like he had 'forecast' it. Caught in a bald faced lie, the YT vanished
  7. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Here's an article about the Joplin Tornado conspiracy theories:


    Amusingly, the article is dated "May 27, 2919"

    With the current Oklahoma tornado, the most important thing to remember is that this has happened before.


    (Tinker AFB, of course, is where Kristen Meghan was stationed. See how easy it is to find random links between unconnected things)


    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  8. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    The 1999 Moore tornado was the first time they had been able to bracket a tornado with Doppler radars. I was at a talk by one NOAA tornado researchers, about 3 days after it. That was a very interesting talk.
  9. Joe

    Joe Senior Member

    That was Dutchsinse . http://educate-yourself.org/cn/joplintornadopredicted24may11.shtml
  10. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    Just wanted to point out how well this event was anticipated, even if not specifically for OKC.

    This event was first discussed 6 days ahead of time. The Day 4-8 Convective Outlook on May 15th talked about the potential for significant severe weather. This particular part of the outlook is quite significant for 6 days out, now that we know what happened:

    So this was not a freak event. Forecasters knew this was coming, almost a week ahead of time.
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  11. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I know that even down here in Dallas that they had forecast severe weather from the middle of last week, through today for at least a week ahead. I have friends that will be camping out next weekend, so remember thinking that the bad weather would be past by then
  12. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    This comment and the link (from another poster) showed up today on FB

    V****** C*** BUT WAIT> In the late sixties, our military announced they would never use weather weapons against other nations, as an act of war. I read that article in our local newspaper. I know they exist. HAARP is a consortium of USNAVY and USAIRFORCE. Look it up if you don't believe me. Google HAARP- it's all there. This is not conspiracy. I've been watching this since 2005, using DUTCHSINCE website. He's a weather expert. There were scalar squares over OK. wait 48 hrs and then it happens. Also be advised that other nations now have the same technology. This never was conspiracy, it's always been fact. It's only conspiracy to those who can't wrap their minds around this. Yes, tornados, storms, hurricanes and even-earthquakes can be man made. Prove me wrong, if you doubt me. HAARP has the ability to spilt the planet into 2 halves. Research Lawrence Livermore, CA and HAARP in Alaska- there you have your proof. Be Safe[/ex]

  13. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Here's the forecast discussion for the Oklahoma City area issued early in the AM on the 20th, especially noteworthy because Moore is mentioned.

    The large, long-lived tornado touched down at around 2:45 pm, just west of Newcastle near I-44. A tornado warning based on the doppler radar signature was issued 16 minutes before the tornado even hit the ground. The meteorologists that monitored the weather and issued the warnings are the unsung heroes of the day, for without the roughly 30 minute advanced warning that Moore had, hundreds of lives would have likely been lost instead of dozens.

    Everybody in our NWS spotter training this evening was a weather expert to some degree, Michael Janitch is a charlatan and an insult to anyone who has ever taken the time and effort to actually learn something about meteorology.
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  14. Cairenn

    Cairenn Senior Member

    I need to make the time to take a spotting class. A lot of the art fairs/festivals are outside during severe weather season and since I don't have a smart phone or a laptop with me, a better ability to analyze what may be coming could be helpful.

    Some shows do have some sort of a weather link on site, sometimes it is even a RACES command center. The Mayfest hailstorm of 1995 was scary to many.

  15. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Starting to see some accusations of murder and unfriendly thoughts on one of Dutch's threads. I would imagine there will be an increase of hostile feelings directed towards anything that can be contrived as a weather weapon to these people following this recent tornado outbreak.

    accusations.JPG Capture2.JPG

    And then there is Dutch, demonstrating once again how completely ludicrous his understanding of weather radar is...."returns seeing returns"...."temporary heating"...."particle excitement".....really Dutch? What's sadder is that such a ridiculous explanation got 15 likes....

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  16. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    Yes, this particular conspiracy theory pretty much revolves around Dutchsinse and his long running hoax.

    If we take him as honest then he seems to think that he has a special ability to see what no one else, not even professional meteorologists, can see. His delusion relies on severe confirmation bias to survive. Ignoring the technical errors he makes in interpreting radar for a moment, let's look as his forecasts and confirmations. Just for this year he has put out dozens of "forecasts" for "severe weather near each ring epicenter within 24/48 hours". Many nights those "ring outbreaks" cover a dozen states. Those ring forecasts have covered the great plains to the Atlantic Ocean from the Gulf of Mexico to the Great Lakes. You'd think the whole eastern 2/3s of the US would be flattened by now. He clearly ignores the majority of the time that nothing significant happens. He frequently resorts to hyping up benign weather to force a confirmation. Often, especially in the fall and winter, he'll use errors that Intellicast's Titan storm tracker makes as "confirmation". It will mis-identify sleet as hail and Dutch will claim that "pulsed" area is getting hit with damaging winds and severe weather. No severe weather will be recorded on the ground and he will stick to his "confirmation".

    In this specific case just look at how useless his forecast was compared to the SPC products. His "frequency outbreak" forecast would have had half the country hunkering down.
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  17. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    That's worse than when he says "spiking into the high R F " during his videos.

    So he thinks that the colors on the radar depict different frequencies and that radar detects "temporary heating".

    Dutch: RF on the scale bar on a radar means "range folding". The weather radar does not heat or detect heat. The colors do not depict different frequencies or temperature. On a reflectivity image the radar is only detecting the narrow band of radio waves that it broadcast. The colors simply depict how much of the broadcast signal bounces back off of something. On a velocity image the colors depict how much the signal was doppler shifted by the motion of the object that it bounced from. The doppler shift is miniscule considering the speed of the radio transmission relative to the stuff that it is detecting. Any frequency significantly above or below what the radar is designed to detect just passes by. There is no "high RF or low frequency return on a weather radar".

    The sunset spike is there because the sun emits radio waves across the entire spectrum. It is a weak but continuous signal. Continuous means that the radar interprets the signal to mean that its own broadcast bounced off of something at every distance out to the edge of the radar's detection limit. So the computer draws a line pointing at the sun when the sun is aligned with that tilt angles of the radar.
    • Like Like x 1
  18. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    A lot of his belief is built on "scalar squares".

    Scalar squares occur only on Intellicast mosaics. They basically occur when the Intellicast filters try to eliminate non-precipitation returns from the display and deletes "tiles" from the image. The deleted tiles leave square edged holes in the precip. You see them with heavy ground clutter (like migrating birds) and virga (often the type in winter where you have broad areas of over-running light precipitation along a warm front falling into a much drier ground level air mass and evaporating before reaching the ground). Is Intellicast aware of the beast that they are feeding with their buggy display?
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  19. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Yep, and you never, ever see those "squares" anywhere else, just Intellicast, but none of his subscribers are able to figure that part out, they just blindly digest all of his technical sounding babble as fact. I attached a screenshot of Intellicast taken on a day when the office internet connection was extremely degraded and Intellicast loaded very slowly. You can clearly see how they render their mosaics in a square pattern. What gets me is how can anyone look at his "scalar squares" and honestly think mankind can punch a perfect square into a storm system where, as viewed from the ground, there would be clearly defined edges where the rain ends and the sky opens up clear, or vice-versa a square rain cloud....and that nobody on the ground has ever seen or photographed these "squares"...when most of the United States population has at least a cell phone camera available to them???

  20. Drew

    Drew Active Member

    What's his defense for only relying on Intellicast? Surely somebody has brought this to his attention. Does he just ignore/ban these questions, or is it something more elaborate about how Intellicast's mosaics are special in conveying "real" information? Does it seem that Dutch is being either deliberately disingenuous or in willful state of denial?
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  21. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    He relies on whatever source "confirms" his findings - most of the time it is Intellicast because of their quirky methods for displaying and or filtering bad data. Sometimes he will use College of Dupage because of its almost "star wars" looking graphics. As an example, take a look at the attached screenshot of Marquette's WSR-88 feed as seen on College of Dupage. That particular day the radar was having all sorts of noise issues due to a component in the receive path that had degraded beyond tolerance. So it was putting out all sorts of anomalies. But as viewed on COD it almost looks like lasers being fired through some imaginary targeting scanner. When he wants graphics with impact that is where he often goes......

    And yes he has been told - numerous times - not only about this but about any number of other things he is wrong about, be it technical details of how weather radar functions or meteorology. He typically deletes your comments on his facebook and youtube pages or dismisses them with an "LOL" comment if posted somewhere he can't control what is posted.

    Oh, and after the U.P. of Michigan got "pulsed" on this particular day, there was NO severe weather........nor had any every been forecast....which probably explains why this anomaly was not used for any "pulse" forecasts by Dutch or any of the other haarp ring youtubers......

    4 april 13.
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  22. Drew

    Drew Active Member

    This image has been making the rounds on twitter as evidence of... well, it's not clear what it is supposed to be evidence of.


    The apparent original source is http://www.theweatherspace.com/haarpstatus-north-america/ with an Alexa ranking of around 28,000. The site looks to offer some kind of subscription service where you can pay them to notify you of severe weather reports cribbed from the NWS, but there's also a lot of HAARP and Chemtrail woo.

    After digging into some of the other threads around here, I see that Kevin Martin and his site have been referenced a couple of times, especially in conjunction with spats he has had with DutchSince. I'm specifically curious about this "haarpstatus" image, what it's supposed to be displaying, and what sources of data he used to make it.
  23. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    We used to have a thread on this, but it was taken down when Kevin Martin became aware of it and threatened legal action...I'm not sure what specifically. It's a well-documented hoax, and even Mr. Martin has acknowledged as such to multiple people on Facebook.
  24. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    Seven degrees of debunking?
  25. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    I don't know anything about how weather radar works. Seems to me like he is just describing what happens in the day, when the sun is out.
  26. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    You probably know more about how weather radar works than he does.....his theories and mechanical understanding are laughably silly.

    He was speaking about a screenshot of a national radar mosaic showing numerous radar "spikes" across the country, and of course he never, EVER makes a big deal about them UNLESS there is weather in the area.

    Here's a fantastic explanation of exactly why those spikes are visible at sunrise and sunset, unless it is a heavily overcast day. I once challenged Dutch to lineup those spikes with sunrise times and position in the sky using something like suncalc.net and of course, I never heard anything back.

    • Like Like x 1
  27. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

  28. Soulfly

    Soulfly Banned Banned

    I fear it might get to the point where people are blaming ordinary mundane things in a conspiracy way.

    Does it seem extra hot today? Must be a conspiracy.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    Supercells are supposed to be rare? No, they aren't! They never were! Unless he thinks supercells are only storms that produce tornadoes, which is blatantly wrong. A large number of severe weather events across the United States, whether they be large hail or damaging wind gusts, are caused by supercell thunderstorms, both surface-based and elevated.

    As for the forecasting...again, I point to my post on timing.

    Speaking of which, I am working on a lengthy report of the forecasting and eventual genesis of this event. It may be too large for a single post, so I may utilize the blog function here on the forums.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Read some of the comments on this video or any Dutch's recent posts - his subscribers seem to think long track, violent tornadoes are something that has only occurred in recent times. It's a rare day when any type of weather record is broken - be it an all time high temperature, an all time record snow event for a particular day, etc. What do those people think was "controlling" the weather back when those records were set?

    And let's not even get into the technical babble presented in that "weatherwar" video - rotating pulse frequencies? Hmmmm.....I'll be out in the radome all day today...I'll have to take a look for the modulating pulse weapon.....
  31. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Here are some reports covering those topics.




    Nexrad Pulsed Rotating Frequency? What the....?

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  32. scombrid

    scombrid Senior Member

    I think the summary at the 23:45 mark should tell people all they need to know about that youtuber.

    That is followed by video of a tornado.
    Proof by gobbledygook I suppose.

    He also claims at 10:35 mar5k the NOAA studies verify an unexplained doubling of "aerosoles" in the last ten years.
    That's bunk.

    At 17:00 mark in the video under the heading "precipitation generation". He has slides that say
    He has split screen behind that text with timelapse of monsoonal t-showeres over Mexico on the left and power plant cooling towers on the right followed by a rocket engine text featured on top gear side by side with a most distant shot of steam rising from cooling towers at yet another coal fired plant. Those images are acompanied by the text

    Well, for starters air is a tad cleaner now than when most of us were kids.

    Two, is he worried about pollution from coal plants or does he think that the steam from the cooling towers is causing severe weather?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  33. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    It's getting a bit concerning. There are a LOT of very anxious, angry, almost hateful sounding comments on Dutch's Facebook page, videos, and on that weatherwar video. It's not to the same volume of what I have seen on chemtrail pages, but it's bad enough.

    I have a young friend who is pursuing a degree in psychology. I cannot wait to discuss the mindset of people such as that with her because I am having a hard time understanding how people can become so wrapped up in a delusion as to cause themselves depression and other physical ailments....or to harbor feelings of resentment to the point where it kind of scares me at times to be associated with the NWS. Especially when you start seeing comments like "knock it the f**k down" (referring to a weather radar) or "they MUST be stopped no matter the cost, freakin psychopathic murderers".....

    Oh, and just taking a lunch break....no weather weapons found yet out in the WSR-88D....no rotating pulsed frequency generators....they must be cloaked.....
  34. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm considering removing that actually, as it does not get used much, and it's out of the normal flow of things. Vbulletin has a problem with the separation of content/forums/blogs. Its a bit annoying.
  35. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    I may try to see if I can't get a tour of the radar in Mayville or Bismarck. My gut feeling tells me I won't find anything sinister.
  36. Met Watch

    Met Watch Moderator

    Okay, thanks for the heads up.
  37. ssfor27

    ssfor27 Active Member

    Most offices of the NWS offer tours to the general public if you give them advanced notice. I would imagine any office that has the radar co-located next to the office would gladly open up the radar shelter so long as there is an electronics technician available to take you there. I would. And most offices do open houses once a year also. We have nothing to hide. Yet none of these "haarp ring" experts ever take such tours, like any good investigator would, and the logical conclusion for that is because they already know they will find nothing and the fantasy might end....then again, no it wouldn't. The conspiracy would simply evolve into something else.
  38. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Rachel Maddow calls out Alex Jones, CT'ers in general and certain Republicans who are influenced by them, over the Moore tornado.


    Michael "dutchsinse" Janitch throws a jealous hissy fit in response, writing:


    Of course, he's not the only one online saying the tornado was man made...



    And his alleged 111 "confirmations" are anything but, as his take on the Moore tornado demonstrates...


    However the bulk of the severe weather on 5/20, including the Moore tornado, occurred outside of the area covered by his "scalar square", which was a small section covering far east central Oklahoma along the border with Arkansas. The line of supercells that spawned the tornado that hit Moore was well west of his "scalar square". Indeed, the area under his "scalar square" mostly dodged the bullet that day.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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  39. Lamar

    Lamar New Member

  40. solrey

    solrey Senior Member

    Yep. He doesn't understand the science at all and was easily fooled by an obvious graphic added to the video of the "experiment", which I explain here:


    This u-tuber "WeatherWar101" is now saying that the Twin Lakes, OK radar, KTLX, just east of Moore killed the tornado with microwaves to save Tinker, AFB.


    WeatherWar101 simply doesn't know what they're talking about. The tornado looked like it had taken a turn to the east and probably would have missed Tinker anyway. And it roped-out as expected after the downdraft wrapped around the vortex and cut off the inflow. Starting at 11:30 in the video is a clip from a news helicopter of the text-book rope-out.

    Some info about the life cycle of a tornado.


    dutchsinse left a comment on that video...

    Here's my reply, if it gets posted. Apparently all comments have to be approved by weatherwar101.

    What burns my ass is that these nutsacks are convincing quite a few people that crucial life saving equipment is somehow being used as a tool of destruction. I don't know how many times dutchsinse has told me that "blood is on your hands" for calling him out on his bullshit. No dutch... you fools pushing the idea that weather radar is a weapon being used against the populace will be the ones with "blood on your hands" if any of your flock decides to cause harm to anyone or anything associated with the NWS.

    Edit: The following comment from that vid is what I'm talking about.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
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