1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    A photo of cut-down trees on a residential street is being circulated on social media along with the claim that the trees are being removed because they block 5G signals. Usually the photo is being described as coming from Holland.




    In truth, the photo was taken in the Belgian town of Wijgmaal, as this news item shows: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190206_04156050



    So, the trees have been cut down because they were due for replacement, and indeed they are already being replaced. A look at Google Street View imagery from last summer shows that the trees had grown rather large for a narrow residential street, and there seems to be some damage to them as well.

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  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    and if you literally turn around from your google maps spot you can see them in the process of being replaced.

    I don't really get what trees on a sidewalk have to do with 5g anyway. we have much bigger trees around me. and dont houses mess up cell phone towers more than anything? And i dont get my internet from a cell tower, is 5g only for cell phones?

    I dont see any "lines" in this neighborhood, so their electric and phone etc must be underground. ?? i cant beleive they would even replant trees knowing how much damage roots can do.

    a cool "roots" video. Just in case peopel can't visualize what "roots" means.
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  3. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    Urban tree maintenance pruning removal and planting divides polarizes draws many opinions.. daily my role is to explain, negotiate, defend and/or/ address/calm public concerns. I had thought i'd heard all the reasons for or against tree removal-pruning or planting but trees interference with 5g network is a new claim I not come across.. I await the letters of concern to the City Arborist..
  4. savvo

    savvo New Member

    Be grateful you don't work for Gateshead council's street lighting department who are being slandered and libelled daily by people who believe, having noticed all these new 5 GHz WiFi SSIDs with 5g in them, that the local authority's LED streetlights are actually part of a stealth 5G mobile trial beaming cancerous death rays into people's bedrooms.

    (I could post links to the lunacy but the metabunk bot pops up and tells me not to do that every time I do.)
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  5. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    No bots. Just moderators enforcing the Posting Guidelines.
  6. JFDee

    JFDee Senior Member

    It should be sufficient to follow the "No Click" guideline.
    Get an excerpt - the relevant part - from the target page and put it below the link, enclosed in the "external content" tag. See [´x´] button in the edit toolbar.
  7. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Trees have been scientifically proven to interfere with the 5G Network.

    The best source for this is a scientific study by the University of Surrey, Institute of Communication Systems, Whitepaper on Rural 5G Vision ( the graphic on page 4 shows this clearly)


    This has been reported in mainstream media sources in the US, Australia and the UK :

    "Could Obstacles Such as Trees Screw up Verizon’s 5G Hopes?"


    "New 5G phone system could face reception problems from trees with too many LEAVES"
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2019
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    That's not being disputed here. What is being debunked is the claim that urban trees (and specifically the ones in the picture) are being removed because of that interference. That doesn't appear to be happening anywhere. Where trees are being cut down, they are being replaced with new trees. Many street trees planted in the past were unsuitable varieties, that grow too large for the street scene (as seen in the "before" photo above).
  9. TonyFisher

    TonyFisher New Member

    Unless you call 10 years "in the process of" I believe you are mistaken. They are shown in the 2009 version of that street view. I am not disputing anything else
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  10. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    So far this is the situation. The fact that trees interfere with 5G has been proven by numerous technical sources.

    What we need data on is the link between 5G trials and tree felling.
    If anyone has evidence of the link between tree felling and 5G trials, can you post here? Thanks
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  11. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    thats a good point. as we drive down the street in 2009 we can see interspersed new trees. i think considering this is government and budgets matter, i'm ok with 'in the process of'. but i'm ok if you dont agree.
    we'll have to wait for the next google car to go through i guess and see if there are new little trees put up, or find someone on social media who can take pics for us at the end of the summer.
  12. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Here is an important document. "5G Planning – geospatial considerations A guide for planners and local authorities" from the Department of Digital, Culture, Media and Sport/ Ordinance Survey (UK).

    On page 10 it states :

    Screen Shot 2019-04-10 at 09.43.33.

    Source: https://assets.publishing.service.g...cv5P9MgyVPNkjhyiVaNfI8VQqh4taG9BUe5A96cmeqqoc
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  13. Edmund Butler

    Edmund Butler New Member

    Following your logic all buildings, monuments, statues and bus shelters would be removed also!! Dude, the trees in Sheffield and along rail lines are NOT coming down due to 5G rollout. [...]
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2019
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    Nobody disputes that trees block 5G signals - just about any physical obstacle, including the walls of your house itself, will block the signals. What is being disputed is that trees are being cut down because of this. No councils that I am aware of have any policy of removing street trees because of 5G problems. If anyone has any evidence that such policies exist then they should share it, as you said yourself up thread.
  15. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    I did come across another claim of city tree removal for 5G event in Marseille France of 2018.
    It would seem it was a strong willed council landscape idea up against differing public feelings. And the tree removal was by some claimed due to 5G nework needs.

    Marseille: , the lies of a project

  16. derwoodii

    derwoodii Senior Member

    i work for local gov tree dept and have contacts thought my state & country and have not yet had any claim of 5G network install to require impact to trees.

    I have had (some 5 years ago) a pubic safety CCTV micro link network ill designed and it did conflict with trees that after much augment ultimately i had to prune some canopy to allow systems cameras to link. ( public safety vs trees is hard to fight debate)..While told it was micro wave system i dont think the CCTv network was 5G


    this was an interesting stuff up, they actually put this pole in incorrect location. Once placed the $cost & project engineers embarrassment was formidable so i was compelled to prune some tree tops.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  17. Zak Martin

    Zak Martin New Member

    So what's this then?


    moderator add:

    from this document
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019
  18. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    what does that have to do with the OP picture/street (my google map pic) and the fact we can see them replacing trees?
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    It's essentially the same as what was posted in post number 12. Guidance that identifies obstacles that can block signals but are too small and/or not permanent enough to appear on large-scale mapping, and so must be additionally taken into account when planning 5G coverage, and added to maps if necessary.

    Nowhere in any of these documents does it suggest removing trees, and to the best of my knowledge no councils anywhere have a policy of removing street trees to facilitate 5G signals. If anyone can cite any such policy then this thread can be updated; as it is there is no evidence of anything other than normal street tree renewal.

    Urban trees do not have a very long lifespan, so it is hardly surprising that you will often see trees being removed and replaced in any large town or city:

  20. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    I have some more information in relation to 5G and tree felling on the rail network in Britain and Ireland.

    Source: The Challenges of Train Connectivity (Source: UK National Infrastructure Commission)

    The UK National Infrastructure Commission’s “Connected Future” report (December 2016) is an excellent read on this topic. Some of the key points in this report include:

    1. “Mobile coverage on our rail routes is notoriously poor; making it difficult to carry out tasks taken for granted in many other contexts, such as making a phone call or checking emails”
    2. “Roads, railways and city centres must be made 5G ready as quickly as possible”
    3. “The railway network must rapidly improve connectivity. This will be best delivered in future by a trackside network
    4. “Around 40 per cent of railways are in tunnels or cuttings, causing base station signals to be blocked. These difficult geographies mean that even with near-ubiquitous geographic coverage MNOs would be unlikely to provide sufficient coverage and capacity to deliver a quality service to passengers without trackside infrastructure.

    1. Further sources that rail companies are rolling out 5G



    2. Here is evidence that in Britain, rail companies are secretly chopping down trees




    The same thing is currently happening in Ireland.
  21. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    You have links about 5G, and you have a link about tree felling, but nowhere do you provide evidence of any kind of connection between the two. The graphic you posted also shows buildings blocking signal, so you might as well suggest that there are plans to knock down buildings beside railway lines too!

    The line that I travel into work on has also had a lot of trees and shrubs on the embankment cut down in the past year or so. This has been happening for as long as I can remember - since long before 5G was ever dreamt of - to prevent leaf-fall which causes delays to the extent that special "leaf fall timetables" have to be run on many lines.


    The Guardian article makes absolutely no mention of 5G whatsoever, so I fail to see where you are trying to go with this. Once again: I have seen absolutely no evidence that trees are being cut down to improve 5G signals. Given that Network Rail are quite happy to publicise the fact that they remove trees from the line side and have no reason to lie about why they are doing so. Leaves on the line and fallen trees are a very real problem, as any rail commuter in Britain can tell you.

    And if you read the document - even the short excerpt that you posted - you can see that the 5G network it suggests would have absolutely no requirement to cut down trees:

    The whole reason it recommends a trackside network infrastructure is that this would be right beside the tracks and therefore not blocked by trees, buildings, tunnels, cuttings etc!
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
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  22. Radio_Fan

    Radio_Fan New Member

    Hi, my first post here, as you may guess from my username, I am a bit of a radio anorak, and on one radio forum, a resident conspiracy theorist has made the claim that trees are being cut down in Sheffield, England, because of the 5G roll-out.

    Assuming he was posting nonsense as usual, I did a quick google & stumbled across this interesting site & thread, and thought I would share my reply to him, as I am sure it will be of interest to some here.


    If the tree felling in Sheffield has anything to do with the roll-out of the 5G network, perhaps Geoff can explain:

    1 – Why has the government appointed a new 'Tree Champion', who duties include preventing the unnecessary felling of street trees?


    One of the first things he did was announce that he will be looking into the situation in Sheffield.

    2 - Why has the government's Forestry Commission launched an investigation into the situation in Sheffield?

    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/new...-felling-scheme-under-investigation-1-9219162 .

    3 – If Sheffield is doing this, because of 5G, why have cities where it's already being rolled out (London, Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Belfast) not done the same?

    It's totally normal to replace street trees, our council does it all the time, admittedly not on the scale of what Sheffield is doing, it does seem they are going over the top, but they are certainly not felling 36,000 trees as you claim.

    The current target is to replace 10,000 trees, although they have budgeted for a maximum of 17,500 in case of a wide spread outbreak of disease, as part of a 25-year highways contract, running until 2037!

    25 years to clear trees for the roll out of 5G? You're having a laugh, Geoff.

    Part of that contract contains 'a requirement for straight pavement kerbs – affecting decisions on whether trees can be saved', and that's one reason trees get replaced across the country. Trees can start lifting up kerb stones & paving slabs, resulting in uneven surfaces, which provide a danger, particularly for senior citizens and people with poor vision, which can be costly in injury claims made against councils. It can also make pavements difficult to navigate for wheelchair users, and people pushing prams or pushchairs.

    I was aware of the situation in Sheffield, and the associated protests, but this is the first time I've heard claims that it had anything to do with 5G, hence I've spent a few minutes on google. I found the above links, which somewhat rubbish the claim, and I couldn't find any reliable source to back-up the claim, just a few weird conspiracy-type sites.

    The suggestion is [baseless].
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2019
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  23. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Here is an interesting article from Tallahassee in Florida :

    Source : https://tallahasseereports.com/2017/12/12/new-5g-technology-threatens-canopy-roads/
  24. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    That ordinance was passed in June 2018. http://cms.leoncountyfl.gov/Portals/0/publicworks/engservices/Ordinance/ORD18-12.pdf


    Relevant sections of the Leon County codes are at https://library.municode.com/fl/leo...dinances?nodeId=PTIICOOR_CH10LADECO_ARTIVENMA

    So it looks as though applications would still need to go through the usual planning process and comply with mitigation requirements if approved.
  25. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    I would like to refer you to a recent debate at Westminister, the British House of Parliament, on 25th June 2019 on Electromagnetic Fields: Health Effects

    MP for Swansea, Geraint Davis, asked this question:

  26. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    and the lady answered:
    Seema Kennedy The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care
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  27. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Moderator Staff Member

    So does anybody know where Geraint Davies got the idea that trees are being cut down en masse "around Swindon"? I can't find anything about this, and, as Seema Kennedy points out, the government has committed to planting more trees. The only news stories I can find from the Swindon area relate to people's concern about the timing of routine maintenance work coinciding with bird nesting season, or works to remove overhanging branches blocking traffic.

    The commitment Ms Kennedy refers to is presumably the pledge to plant 11 million new trees (ie not counting replacements) across England in the five years of the current Parliament, from 2017 to 2022: https://assets.publishing.service.g...orted-new-planting-trees-England-2018-19-.pdf

    That figure of 11 million includes a commitment to plant an additional one million trees in towns and cities. Last year the UK government's published an "Urban Tree Manual" to that end: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tree-champion-we-must-preserve-our-urban-trees.

    It seems that 5G has attracted a certain type of conspiracy theorist, to the extent that any sign of trees being felled gets linked to 5G. Perhaps people passed on these unfounded concerns to their local MP?

    (As an aside, I follow a couple of Flickr accounts that compare old photos of British towns and cities with the present-day scene. It's amazing how much less greenery there was in urban areas in the "old days"!)
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This is something I've also noticed with my old home town in Yorkshire. I digitized thousands of photos from the 1960s, and sometimes geolocated them in Goggle street view. I'd frequently have problems because the view that was clear in the 1960s is now obscured by trees.
    These things likely come in waves, with development comes tree planting. The tree mature at around the same time, and start to become a problem at around the same time.

    For example, I used to play on this street corner about 40 years ago. I remember all the trees were skinny sapling like the one behind the white van, and now they are mature trees 50 feet high.

    Metabunk 2019-08-07 06-55-13.

    So they age together, and at some point will need to be cut down around the same time. A forward-thinking local council will phase in the replacement (here there's a couple of new trees). But lots of places end up just reacting to something like one of the trees being blown over, and they trim or replace them en masse.

    This is also something that varies a lot with location. So individual perceptions will vary.
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  29. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Looks like the day before the meeting, this article was out about birds nests in swindon. (a nesting bird survey is undertaken before vegetation removed, so says Swindon ecologist Debbie MacKenzie)


    the article says disease or safety reasons.
    this is the only pic in the article

    edit add: link to Swindon Council tree maintenance webpage https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20077/parks_and_open_spaces/480/tree_maintenance

    ie (the article above has nothing to do with 5g, they cant even keep up with regular maintenance due to funding)
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  30. Sharon Dewey Ph.D.

    Sharon Dewey Ph.D. New Member

    I don't think that this issue can truly be "debunked" as you claim until you show evidence that no small cell towers or 5G transmitters are scheduled for that street, and if there are small cell towers or transmitters scheduled, where they will be. The city councils can tell their public anything they want to justify cutting down these trees. They don't want to face the wrath of people not only fighting the illegal, forced installment of dangerous wireless technology but ALSO upset about their lovely tree-lined street being dramatically changed and removed of its beautiful, mature trees for that technology. The replacement trees are immature, with skinny trunks and far less foliage. Plus, judging from their height already, will probably grow their canopies higher, far out of the way of the laser-like beams of 5G radiation from street-level "small towers" (every 500 feet!) targeting the houses and businesses along this lane...
  31. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    it would be easier for you to prove towers were planned on that area of that street, then for others to prove a negative.

    Brussels was the target test city selected, December 2018.

    and if it took 10 years + for the saplings to grow to the size we see... I highly doubt they will be tall enough to be above any alleged 5g tower for another 20 years at least (if ever).. there is little indication their canopy's will be higher than the old trees. (and they could just trim the bottom branches of the old trees.

    But either way Wigjmaal, while close to Brussels, isnt Brussels anyway.

    Licenses were never agreed on

    and now the 5g plan even in Brussels has been halted.

    Personally i have a hard time believing any small town would have the funds (or inclination) to preplan tree height for less than twenty homes, regarding a futuristic 'faster connection speed' internet plan in a country that doesn't yet allow the technology as it is, because of radiation laws. Less than 2 months, no less, after the even possibility of getting 5g in wijgmaal eventually, looked like it was at least a 'maybe' proposition.
  32. Joe_the_Joe

    Joe_the_Joe New Member

    I apologize if this was covered earlier and I missed it while skimming, but is there even any reason to think that in response to tree interference, a body couldn't simply mount the antennas higher or in a slightly more dense arrangement? I would think the former would at least not be terribly costly....
  33. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Here is a very interesting quote by Charles Kennelly, CTO Esri UK, from the Futurescope Conference in Dublin 'Smart cities and connected futures – a report'.

    "So you start having to deal with vegetation management." - What does this mean? The pruning and felling of trees that is currently underway all over the world to make way for smart cities and self-driving cars.

    This is the agenda. The evidence is hidden in plain sight.

    Source: http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2018/09/18/smart-cities-connected-futures-report/
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  34. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    The bold part of your statement above. Can you provide evidence that supports that statement?
  35. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I don't see any "wet, thick spruce tree" s in this thread
  36. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Hi Deirdre, you were most probably right about the original picture in Holland, but there is truth in the overall claim that trees are being pruned/ felled for 5G. The evidence is and will continue to grow. This website has been instrumental in spreading awareness, thank you :)
  37. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Huh? The title of the thread is Debunked- trees being cut down etc. There is no evidence that trees are being cut down for 5g. Do you have any?
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  38. Rob C

    Rob C New Member

    Hi Landru. The evidence is so far circumstantial. I know where I am from in Ireland there has been a significant increase in tree felling over the past few years.
    This has co-incided with similar reports in other countries ( I have shown evidence in other posts on this thread). The official reasons given are always nothing to do with 5G :
    I feel that the people running this site are experts at debunking misinformation. I am asking you to turn your critical faculties on the official line- to debunk the idea that trees are not being cut to make way for the 5G network. You would be doing a great service.

    Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...d-by-local-authorities-in-18-months-1.3960688
  39. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    Spreading awareness of the fact there is no evidence any trees have been cut down for 5g? You're welcome.
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  40. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    The source you site also says that 3,000 new trees have been planted. There is nothing to suggest that the tree removal is anything but what is stated. Your evidence is not even circumstantial.