1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    There's a hoax going around that the health care reform act HR3200 (The Affordable Care Act, aka "Obamacare") requires everyone to get a chip implanted in their body.

    The bottom line is:
    • The proposed law did not require anyone to get anything implanted
    • It just created a national registry of a huge of range of medical devices from pacemakers to dental implants
    • The intent of the registry was to collect statistics on how safe and effective the devices are
    • HR3200 is not the bill that became law. Nor is HR 3962, which only passed the House. The "Obamacare" law is HR 3590, passed as Public Law 111-148, which does not have the registry.
    An implantable RFID chip is just one example of a class II implantable medical device. Others include:

    • percutaneous catheters
    • vascular graft prostheses
    • bone-conduction hearing aids
    • tympanostomy tubes
    • gastrointestinal tubes
    • implantable staples
    • long-term intravascular catheters
    • intracranial pressure monitor devices
    • peripheral nerve stimulators for pain relief
    • eye sphere implants
    • intramedullary fixation rods
    • joint prostheses
    Here's the original bill (which did not ever become law):


    And here's what it says:

    There's a little more about administrative things, but the above is the entirety of what the conspiracy promoters base their theory on. They get away with it in part because the language of the bill is rather complex and difficult to read, so they can basically make up whatever interpretation they like, and many of their readers will be fooled.

    They then build upon this by claiming that a Class II device is a
    When actually the three classes of medical devices have nothing to do with what the devices are, but are to do with how much they are regulated to ensure safety. For example:

    So the law simply creates a registry for this HUGE range of different medical devices.

    Implantable RFID chips would be covered under the law, but that's simply because they are one of thousands of devices that are classified as Type III or Type II implantable.

    It's not a law, and even if it was, it no more mandates you get a chip implanted than it mandates you get a hip replacement.

    This has also been quite well debunked over on Snopes:
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    RFID chip implants - 'obamacare'

    [Admin: the following is the original post, but I've added the above debunking for conciseness]

    hi, need some of this community's skills for a facebook duel.


    so, following that 'fourwinds' link, i get this....

    January 22, 2011
    NOTE: This may be old news to some, but few people are aware of this critical move by the Darkside for total control. ---PHB
    And now we come to it. On Sunday March 21, 2010 the Senate Healthcare bill HR3200 was passed and signed into law the following Tuesday. Like I said before, there are a legion of horrible and just plain evil aspects to this bill and I’m sure you’ve heard a lot them by now. I don’t want to discount them but what cannot be missed here is this new law now opens a prophetic door on a magnitude not seen since the reformation of Israel.
    This new law requires an RFID chip implanted in all of us. This chip will not only contain your personal information with tracking capability but it will also be linked to your bank account. And get this, Page 1004 of the new law (dictating the timing of this chip), reads, and I quote: "Not later than 36 months after the date of the enactment". It is now the law of the land that by March 23rd2013 we will all be required to have an RFID chip underneath our skin and this chip will be link to our bank accounts as well as have our personal records and tracking capability built into it.
    In just a minute I’m going to show you the black and white of the law itself and you can see it with your own eyes and wonder why an event of this magnitude which is nothing less than seismic in nature is met with little more than silence in the Christian community.
    Is it now starting to dawn on you just where exactly we are in prophecy? I’ll ask that question again in a minute and follow up on it, but now I want to show you the law itself. I’ve downloaded a PDF copy of HR3200 from the government's website so what I’m about to show you is from the bill itself its nothing that I’ve written. You can access it all and see it all for yourself straight from the source itself.
    H.R. 3200 section 2521, Pg. 1001, paragraph 1.
    The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the ‘registry’) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that— ‘‘is or has been used in or on a patient; ‘‘and is— ‘‘a class III device; or ‘‘a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.”
    What exactly is a class II device that is implantable? As you saw earlier, it is the device approved by the FDA in 2004.
    Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act:

    i don't really get how this is supposed to refute the snopes article, which is dated more recently? can someone point it out to me?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  3. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    • follow up...

    • [​IMG]Pete Tar hmm, well how is the snopes article superseded by the fourwinds one? note the snopes article is dated thiss year.38 minutes ago · Like

    • [Broken External Image]:https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/211614_1502712330_6453280_q.jpg

      Floyd Davis they're been wanting to do this thing for a long time, it's obviously getting closer, now they've got the technology. I don't think money has any real value, they printed too much of the stuff. Once based on the amount of gold a country held, now increases exponentially completely baseless. A cashless currency system would tighten up the monetary system very quickly! You don't think this is happening but this is the new smart world we are entering, smart money, smart clouds, smart cities, etc Try driving around Sydney without a smart tag. I would rather a world returning to nature but instead we are entering a world of digital domination
      21 minutes ago · Like

    • [​IMG]Pete Tar yeah well, i would agree with the gist of your rhetoric,
      but how does that translate into something that is actually happening, specifically, with this bill?
      that is the issue at hand.
      i commend your general distrust, it is a good default position to take.
      and microchipping the population probably would make sense to a certain kind of thinking.
      and should be opposed i reckon.
      is it real, or speculation? what is really gained by such an objective?
      is the (fear) that this is the 'real' intent of this legislation, justified?
      planting the suspicion of fear as to the motives could in itself be part of someone's agenda.
      the main thing to consider is whether the actual legislation IS suggesting this or not, for a start.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  4. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    It is hard to see what else you can do - you've seen Snopes, you've told them that HR3200 did not get passed (by way of referencing Snopes) - perhaps make that more obvious??
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It doesn't say that everyone has to have an implanted device. That's really the key point - not if it passed or not.

    It simply establishes a registry. It's mostly for stuff like pacemakers.
  6. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Senior Member

    i wrote the relevent bits out for him.

    guess it wasn't much of a duel, red wine made my Battle Against Ignorance (TM) seem much more heroic than it really was.
  7. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    what if the hoax is the article that says it is not so :p. is like the moon hoax debunkers, all the information they use, is more easily debunkable by all the absurd obserbable anomalies than the intrincate explanation nasa uses, so I guess will have to wait and see what happens...
  8. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Unfortunately when an explanation is a little difficult to understand, then people tend to got for the simpler "it's a conspiracy" theory.

    Understanding some of the debunking of the moon landing hoax theory does require a little science, and unfortunately here understanding the Obamacare RFID debunking dues require a bit of effort in reading the actual bill.
  9. hellostupid

    hellostupid Guest

    LOL, yeah, that's a good one, moon landing hoax by NASA, XD, ever seen the episode of MythBusters where they proved the conspiracy theorists wrong about the moon landing, and hey, if you need first hand proof just emulate their experiments and get the same results.
  10. BobS

    BobS Guest

    "My mind is made up! Don't confuse me with the facts!"

    Debates work best when they're not debates. Sneak up on them. Otherwise they'll just dig deeper into the hole they're already in.

    Rather than talk about this being a "law" that "everyone" will be "forced" to get "implanted," point out that any red-blooded American would never consent to a law like this, nor would it pass in Congress. And all your reps and senators know that. There would be a huge reaction to any such law. Look at the insanity that just the rumor has created.

    Point out that all you're trying to do is get the facts straight. Ask for THEIR help in reading the law and interpreting where it says it's mandatory for everyone.
  11. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    ok - so why do they need a DEVICE registry????? Explain that!

    Bottom line,, THEY DONT! So why even have it in a bill ... WHy do I need everyone to know I have an implanted device if I have one,,,
    inside of my body?
    Why does their need to be a registry? My aunt had a heart pace maker for years - why was it anyone else business?
    and why is it the governments ?
    I think this is just too too too close to saying we are writing this to making it sound
    like its for regular devices - and its left open for them to do whatever,,,

    I can not find any reason for a national registry for ANY device being implanted into ANYONE!

    Even for air or any kind of travel - all you have to do is tell them I have an implant that might set a machine off ...... that's it!
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The devices listed are all kinds of devices, not just implantable ones. The implantable devices make up a small segment to the devices to be registered. The devices are Class III devices, and anything in Class II that is implantable. Again this covers:

    The reason for the registry is listed in the bill:

    That means the registry is to make it possible to figure out how safe the devices are, and how well they work. It's very much a good thing.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. ProdigalSon7

    ProdigalSon7 New Member

    Thanks for your post. I recently was researching on this and I'm glad I found something that is challenging the claim of this mandatory RFID implantation under the new health care bill. I have a hypothetical for you and all readers. Let's say there is a nuclear fallout, Yellowstone erupts, solar flares penetrate into the earth, an asteroid crashes into the planet, tectonic plates twist and churn causing magnitude 20 earthquakes and tsunamis that are 100 times bigger Katrina, or a new deadly epidemic sweeps through the land...lets say some unimaginable colossal catastrophic event(s) plague the USA and the world. Do you think under with the wording of this bill, that for example, the VeriChip, the only FDA-approved human-implantable microchip [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip], which they (the FDA) have classified as a Device II [http://www.scribd.com/doc/22533693/FDA-Approval-VeriChip-RFID-Implant-Class-2-Device-12Oct04] would be a logical choice of device to be used by the government under the healthcare bill for registering,tracking, monitoring, prescribing et al of the health services that they'd want to so desperately offer to the millions of people that would have been affected and in dire need of aid? Would you not CHOOSE to accept this verichip if it was a requirement for you to receive medical aid, maybe a vaccine to fatal epidemic, a blood transfusion or a medical operation that would save your life? Would you not CHOOSE to accept this verichip if it was mandatory in order for you to receive aid in food and water when a catastrophic event might have cut off public food/water supply? Would you not CHOOSE to accept this verichip if it was condition on which you could be given shelter in a safe zone after a nuclear fallout? Do you think millions of others would CHOOSE to accept this verichip if they believed that their lives depended on it?

    Thanks again.
  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think people would choose just about anything if they believed their lives depended on it. They would choose to have 666 tattooed on their foreheads if they believed their lives depended on it. So that's rather a rhetorical question.
  15. ProdigalSon7

    ProdigalSon7 New Member

    You are partially correct in that my question is a rhetorical one when asking about the choice of that the masses will take. But as you can see in my post, I was asking you personally as well and their isn't any rhetorical element in that. So what would you do?

    The point I'm trying to make is that yes their isn't a direct mandate for RFID Chip Implantation under "Obamacare" right now but that doesn't really matter. What matters is that all the elements required for it to BECOME a mandate/requirement/condition for receive care and support are in place. All that is left is the "perfect storm". The thing I wish we would all consider though is this; Right now if there was a mandate for RFID Chip Implantation under the healthcare bill, we would be outraged. We would consider it a breach of our liberty and freedom. We would think it to be some kind of evil government control tactic. We would think of it as being something sinister, something wrong for whatever reasons. We would believe it to be immoral and the most of us would reject it and say to hell it then. We would take whatever other options that were available. Now if that "perfect storm" ever came, would the cost of our mortal lives mean more to us than then the cost of our integrity? Would we really want life under the complete control of entities that we don't today trust instead of whatever other choice we might have, be it going it on our own or death? Would we really choice to save our mortal lives at the expense of losing our souls? Something to think about.

    And again I hope Admin will answer the questions I posted for himself as an individual. Thanks.
  16. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So you are asking me if I would rather die than have an RFID chip implanted in me? Still seems pretty rhetorical. Why would anyone choose death?

    I would prefer not to have a chip implanted. If Yellowstone has exploded I'd think it would be pretty low on the list of things people would be doing. I really can't picture an event that would be the "perfect storm" you suggest, and I think many changes would have to happen to society first before it becomes acceptable. One event is not going to do it.

    But consider: the "evil government" usage of RFID chips can eventually be far more simply implemented with biometrics. Particularly iris scanners, but also facial recognition. You can remove a chip. Few people would remove their iris.
  17. MikeC

    MikeC Closed Account

    A Government that can make laws would seem to be the only actual "element" in place that I can see?
  18. ProdigalSon7

    ProdigalSon7 New Member

    Very few of us would choose death of our mortal bodies rather than forfeiting our integrity and losing our souls.
    There will be some crazy unpopular non-conformist ones that will choose death.

    "Give me liberty or give me death" -
    Patrick Henry (A Founding Father of the United States of America)
  19. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    In answer to the rhetorical question I rather loose my life than accept a chip. The bible clearly says it is the mark of the beast. If not how did christians speak of a chip decades and decades and decades back of something unheard of so many years ago? Because the bible revealed it in revelations. This is indeed a prophetic door being opened. And only the nonbelievers will ridicule the severity of this situation. And maybe its not mandated at the time but now its setup to be mandated down the line. I will go to god for instruction and pray that u all do the same because only he can save us from the snare satan is setting up. The devil is currently setting the stage for his grand finale ... lord bless us and have mercy on us all. Biblical phropecies are about to unfold in the following years to come. Call me crazy,conspiracy theorist or watever but remember (laugh now cry later)
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The bible says nothing of chips. It says a "mark" (χάραγμα, charagma), which is an engraved stamp or an official seal, and which many biblical scholars interpret as thoughts and actions (forehead and wrists) indicating allegiance, rather than an actual mark (let alone a chip).
  21. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    The fact that there is a registry that will know all your info is scary to me.
  22. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    How is that scarier than a driver's license? A credit card?

    It should be less scary, as nobody is forcing you to get a chip. In fact, nobody is evening currently using them. It's registry to record how we hip implants and pacemakers work.
  23. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Implantable RFID chips would be covered under the law what kind double talk are you putting forth here?
    where do you think those medical records are going to come from? This is a disinfo site plain and simple.

    Pure disinformation here meant to calm Edward Bernays would be proud.

  24. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Of course the RFID chips would be covered, as would hip implants and pacemakers and all kinds of other things.

    The point is that the law does not require you to have a chip. Just if you do, then it would be included in the registry with all the other things. The purpose of the registry is to measure how well these things work and how safe they are - for which purpose they need to keep track of them.
  25. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    If they can make the health care mandatory...they can make the chip mandatory. Of course it isn't yet...but like the poster above stated, the perfect storm would be the excuse to identify survivors or anyone and they will justify it.

    Then look at comments such as this video of people in current power right now....this makes me furiously want to fast from the world, that's for sure. Wake up now, later will be too late to do anything. They have set up the framework as the initial poster pointed out. They just need a crisis and whallah!

  26. Athena

    Athena Guest

    So I know a bit about the Bible, I'm no Bible thumper, but I am religious in my own way so I have to comment on some things I have seen posted here, primarily by the Admin. I get my facts straight from the Bible; Not scholars who have interpreted the word which is already written as it is intended to be seen. The mark of the beast can be ANYTHING received on the right hand or forehead of a person. 666 is the numerical representation of Satan. This is not my nor man's representation, rather what God says represents him. A mark can be a bar code which embedded in it contains the numbers of the beast (aka 666). A chip can very easily have 666 embedded in that number. It wouldn't need to be a straight 666. It could be 674269906.

    Furthermore, I can personally say that I absolutely WOULD choose death over an embedded chip or code. The Bible says that any means necessary CAN be used to get us to take the mark. An example I was taught growing up was "If you had a child and they were going to cut his ear off, would you take the mark?". The Bible tells us that under no circumstances do we take it. To take it is certain damnation. Also, (assuming there is a chip in the bill as it has been taken different ways) the Bible says that the mark will not be MANDATORY or required but it is asked of us to take it and pushed upon us.

    Supposedly this chip is to be linked to our bank accounts, etc. I'm not saying that the bill indicates there is an actual chip, but if it did that also ties into the mark of the beast because the Bible tells us that people will feel they have no choice but to take the chip because money is useless and will be thrown out into the streets. To take the chip = survival. So if they were going to implant a chip, it most certainly makes sense that it would segue to more. Anything that is "good & beneficial" in the same breath can be malicious & dangerous depending on how it's used and who is "pushing the buttons". We cannot assume that everything that is proposed or talked about or written into law is good for us or beneficial because man is misleading and that goes doubly so for politicians. (And just so you know I am not saying Obama is the devil..although his bill is evil for sure!)

    Do you really believe the government wants/needs to track device data? They have surveys, studies and things for that. Guess what they do with the data? Absolutely nothing of importance that would better future usage of said device or services. This is just another way to take away liberties and rights that we have left. This is another means of disguising ulterior motives.

    And to the comment about comparing this to credit cards, etc. One way to get people to say "Hey, that's not so bad", is to introduce them to other means of tracking/controlling first. You might as well say we've been gearing up to this for some time. In a few years time you will be saying, "Hey, that chip implanted in my forehead isn't so bad". It's all about rights & freedoms that we as American's shouldn't be allowing them to take away. It starts off seemingly harmless but then turns into something that we can no longer control or understand.

    And lastly...you are wrong. They HAVE embedded chips before and have been doing it for several years in other countries. They also thought it was a "wonderful" idea at the time as well. I just hope this Country wises up a bit. You have to ask yourself who benefits more from this bill. Us or the people in control (FDA, Doctors, Ins co)? After all, there's no money to be made on healthy people...only on sick people. Chip or no chip, this Obamacare business is a sham. It's just another way for the government to dip into America's cookie jar and leave us the stale bits when they're done. Hindsight is 20/20 folks. I'm hanging onto hope in our country that we will do the right thing come November!
  27. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's hardly the same thing. Requiring people to buy health insurance is far far removed from requiring people to have a chip implanted in their bodies.

    Mandatory health care is supported by 50% of the US population, and is a standard and welcome public service in most developed countries.

    Mandatory chips are supported by nobody. Nobody uses them anywhere in the world.

    Totally different.
  28. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Wait, didn't you just interpret the word right there? χάραγμα means "anything", really?

    Well regardless, since the chip goes UNDER the skin, not ON it, then that can't be it.
  29. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    First up - why is this in 'quotes debunked' - it's not a quote is it?

    There exists Verichip - a corporation, no less. Think about all the planning and effort and money that's going into this 'product'. What could that be for? The public good? Er...

    Is this the thin end of the wedge? It's a slippery slope...

    [h=1]VeriChip Infant Protection Systems[/h]http://www.swc.net/healthcare/security-verichip.tpl

    Yes, on tags and not implanted....not yet....
  30. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Hmm, I think I might have originally been responding to a quote, but it seemed more general.

    Anyway the debunked theory is that Obamacare mandates these implants. Other arguments about their possible draconian usage seem to be most based on "seem like something an Orwellian dictatorship might do"

    Your link is just a standard RFID tag. They have them in pretty much everything now - credit cards, passports, theater tickets, bus passes. Now THAT might be a slipper slope to more pervasive usage - but implanting is a huge roadblock on that slope.
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Interestingly this post got a HUGE increase in traffic yesterday with the SCOTUS decision on Obamacare. Seems like the RFID scare is a common topic for the extreme tea-party crowd. Over 10,000 unique visitors.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. SR1419

    SR1419 Senior Member

    My dog didn't have a choice when I put a microchip in him....I must be part of the NWO :D
    • Like Like x 1
  33. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    What about the dog's constitutional rights?
  34. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    Mad as they may be...there is a point there. Thin end of the wedge...and you can easily understand the outrage in such a haven of bourgeois values
  35. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    The agreement here is: Increments, it's always increments with this type of thing - the structure, the will and the mechanisms for this all exist - they exist because some people have gone to a lot of time, money and trouble to make sure they exist. I reckon they're going to want to sell as much of that as they can for as much money as they can get, don't you? That would be the idea, surely?
  36. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I really can't see any benefit to the evil illuminati to make microchips mandatory. It's going to be far easier to simply use biometrics that can be read at a distance.

  37. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So you are saying that companies that have developed human implantable rfid chips would like to make money from their investment?

    Does that relate to the Obamacare hoax in any way?
  38. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    No, sorry, you're right - it doesn't relate. Obviously it's not true - 'mandatory chipping', but 1) why is the question out there? 2) what's being made 'compulsory' is health insurance - as far as I can see, and quite a lot of Americans don't like it too well...is that about right?

    Make money? Ofcourse, that's the point. But why would anyone want to be chipped, really?

    Where you off to?

    Get chipped

    What again?
  39. lee h oswald

    lee h oswald Banned Banned

    What?! 'Evil illuminati'? Where did that come from?
  40. Kte1313

    Kte1313 Guest

    To thoroughly understand this bill and it's intent you must be aware of the game being played. There are evil people sitting on top of the worlds governments with plans to control everything. I'm not a big fan of speculation so here are some things you may want to research and make decisions for yourself. AGENDA 21 ( population control ) the council on foreign relations, the tri-lateral commission, Builderberg group, codex alimentariuos ( food supply). Of course in all aspects of life FOLLOW THE MONEY. The rothchilds dynasty holds 50% of all the WORLDS money. The are the founders of the RFID CHIP.......in an interview conducted by AARON RUSSO 4 years ago mr ROTHCHILD himself confesses that the goal of the round tables agenda is to implant a microchip in everybody on the planet. YOU have been mislead and misinformed your whole life. Stop listening to main stream media and regurgitating there misinformation on demand. YOU have been led into voluntary slavery (DEBT ) while the state raises your kids and teaches them to think strictly with the left hand side of there brain. This is known as " the suppression of the feminine". So please take the time to research yourself and make up your own mind on this subject. You will find that there is only one answer.
    • Like Like x 1