1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    This video of four jets flying in formation proports to show some kind of "chemtrail" because what looks like a contrail starts and stops on two of the jets, but not the other two, and the on/off is at different times for each jet. This video was repurposed for a chemtrail video titled "ChemTrails 100% NOT DEBUNKABLE! I Challenge Pilots and DeBunkers to TRY to Discredit This Video!"



    What's particularly interesting is that there's a gap between the engine and the trail, something that you normally only see with a contrail (as a contrail starts out as invisible water vapor). This gap initially led me to think it actually was a contrail, and the on/off was to something to do with power settings.
    [​IMG]

    Luckily the video description gives the original source, "IAF SU 30K and French Mirages French India Air Exercise Garuda". (IAF is the Indian Air Force). This identifies the flight as part of a military exercise, and the twin-engined planes leaving the trails as Russian-made Sukhoi SU-30MIK jet fighters.

    What we are actually seeing here is what has been described as the "party trick" of the SU-30, the ability to inject unburnt fuel into the exhaust plume via the afterburner system. The super hot air of the exhaust instantly evaporates the volatile fuel, and then when it mixes with the cold air behind the plane the fuel reforms as a fine mist, essentially a fuel smoke cloud. Because the jet engine exhaust is so hot and so fast, you get this noticeable gap while the fuel is in gaseous form.

    The following video shows this in close-up at 1:370

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The above photos show the initial narrow stream of liquid fuel right at the engine, then a transparent gap as the fuel is evaporated into invisible gas, and then the smoke trail formed by the fuel recondensing into liquid form again (as a fog of microscopic fuel drops that refract the light, like the water drops in a cloud do).

    This is essentially the same technique used by skywriters. In normal sky-writing however, the plane is a prop plane, and the smoke comes out of the engine exhaust and has already started to condense, so you don't see the gap. Sky-writers generally use some kind of specific smoke oil for the purpose, like the one shown below (Hydrotreated Middle Distillate, aka Gasoil, aka C12-20 Isoparaffin). Pure kerosene (or a simple 50/50 kerosene/diesel mix) can also be used to make smoke, but would not be safe to use in a small plane, especially as the exhaust is usually at the front of the plane.
    [​IMG]

    Here's a small plane with the smoke coming directly from the engine exhaust.
    [​IMG]

    And here's a jet engined plane (Soko G-2 Galeb) with the smoke fuel being directly sprayed into the exhaust gasses. Notice it's initially a thin visible stream (as it's liquid) and then it rapidly evaporates. Here they can use pure kerosene (jet fuel) to create the smoke, or possible a 50/50 mix of kerosene and diesel.
    http://achtungskyhawk.wordpress.com...tional-airshow-varazdin-11-12-07-2009-part-1/
    [​IMG]

    Here's a photo the the G2, with the smoke trails, with gap. If you click on the image for the full size version, you can see the smoke fuel outlet, and the initial narrow spray of liquid fuel.
    http://www.airliners.net/photo/STARS-Aerobatic-Team/Soko-G-2-Galeb/1367762/L/
    [​IMG]

    The twin engined SU-30 from the original video is largely unique to the Indian Air Force, and regularly features in a flyover at the annual Republic Day Parade. Here you can see three SU-30s leaving the smoke trails just about 1,000 feet above the ground in hot New Delhi, so they are obviously not contrails, and you can see the distinctive gap.
    [​IMG]

    And here (below) is a close-up of those same three planes. You can see the gap, and also quite a bit of variation, which will be to do with power settings and the flow of the unburnt smoke fuel.
    [​IMG]

    What's interesting is that the gap only exists when pure fuel is used to create a white trail. The addition of other chemicals to create color means that the trail is visible instantly on exit from the engine. SU-30's don't seem to make colored trails, but here are some more Indian jets, showing the gap with the pure white smoke, and no gap with colored smoke.
    [​IMG]

    (Thanks to @TWCobra, @Trigger Hippie, and others for helping me track down these photos and info.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Some more technical detail regarding this SU-30 fuel dump / smoke system in this thread.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/show...-Aviation-thread-part-V&p=1771392#post1771392
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I OCRed and Google-translated the above, and got:
     
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  4. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Another Indian Air Force type that has a "party trick" is the HAL/SEPECAT Jaguar. See from 04:03 on the following video. MiG-29s follow demonstrating their notoriously smokey engines. Su-30s appear at 05:00 with their "party trick".



    The twin-engined HAL/SEPECAT Jaguar fuel jettison pipe is located at the base of the tail fin. (The elevated pipe)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From

    http://www.aame.in/2013/01/indian-military-hardware-displayed-at.html

    [​IMG]

    From

    http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/70916-sepecat-jaguar/page-2
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And note there's no gap with the trail there, as it's not directly in the jet engine exhaust.
     
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  6. Zane O'Neill

    Zane O'Neill Member

    Thats the first time I have heard chemtrails being called a party trick, how amusing, again you havent been able to successfully debunk this one, once again BUSTED!
     
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  7. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

    Seems it is very obvious and not much of a secret. How would then an entire fleet of aircraft across the planet get away with such tricks ?
     
  8. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    It may shock you but without producing any evidence to the contrary your pronouncements that topics haven't been debunked are inane.
     
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  9. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    So you are claiming that Indian Su-30s don't dump fuel to create their "party trick"?. Did you watch the videos on this thread?
     
  10. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    They are not "chemtrails" (as the particular Urban Legend defines them, nowadays).

    But, to be precise, if I walk down the hallway and fart, I leave a "chemtrail" of sorts. Just, invisible to the Human eye. Which leads me to this:

    If "chemtrails" are real, Why In The World Are They So Visible?
     
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  11. KC-10FE

    KC-10FE Active Member

    Yeah, perhaps you should call up the USAF Thunderbirds and Navy Blue Angels demo teams and file a complaint, telling them they are chemtrailing during every one of their shows. You would give them a good laugh for sure!

    superdelta-600x398.

    blue-angels-formation-02.
     
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  12. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Yes, chemtrailing in front of millions of people during a season of air shows. As Daffy Duck would say.... "Devilishly clever...."
     
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  13. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Yup!!
     
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  14. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    A little more about the Blue Angels:

    http://aerobaticteams.net/blue-angels.html
    This can be seen here, on the top of the left nozzle:
    [​IMG]

    and here:
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Not if you light it, WW! :p
     
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  16. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Su-27 Flankers during the Soviet period demonstrating the fuel dump.

    upload_2014-11-17_9-36-1.

    See 2:06 & 2:22

     
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  17. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    The latest from Max on his Facebook.

    upload_2016-2-7_20-28-26.

    Max still deluding himself over WW2 contrails.

    upload_2016-2-7_20-30-54.
     
  18. Gridlock

    Gridlock Active Member

    FWIW I visited the Red Arrows once upon a time, and was told the fancy chemical they use to produce the colours was called "biro ink".
     
  19. MikeG

    MikeG Senior Member

    I would love to know how he plans to debunk WWII contrails.
     
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  20. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Max is fixated on the use of water injection as a means of creating a contrail.

    It is a self-defeating argument as it admits that water in aircraft exhaust is responsible for contrails, and we know that the combustion of aviation fuel creates large amounts of water.

    The use of ADI was limited to takeoff in larger aircraft, and about 5 minutes when used to boost combat power in smaller fighter aircraft.

    I think there is one BAC-111 still flying in the world. They used water injection on takeoff, but it may be the only aircraft left that actually uses it.
     
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  21. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    I agree he is fixated on water injection. Here is his latest "research". He can't understand why the Superfortress mother ship (US Navy P2B) is producing contrails and the chase F-86F Sabre isn't.

     
  22. Balance

    Balance Senior Member

    I wonder if Max is finally conceding some (debunked) points as he appears to be calling them contrails nowadays.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. WeedWhacker

    WeedWhacker Senior Member

    Ummm......"DisInfo"? Is "Max Bliss" still relevant? "Max Bliss' used the term "contrails"? Because, that is what they are....CONdensation TRAILS......simple H2O......water ice.....
     
  24. Hartski

    Hartski New Member

    Just been watching a rather excellent doc on the beeb (Britain's ultimate pilots: inside the RAF. Ep2) this episode followed an airshow which featured a Red Arrow full display. You could clearly see gaps to the white trails compared to the coloured ones. Will try and grab a screenshot.
     
  25. Hartski

    Hartski New Member

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  26. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Russian Air Force Sukhoi 35 making a close pass on Russian Air Force Sukhoi 30 over Syria. The Su-35 is dumping fuel into the exhaust.

    upload_2017-12-15_0-32-17.


     
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  27. TEEJ

    TEEJ Senior Member

    Footage doing the rounds as "The Fastest Chemtrail Ever!". Original video is reversed/mirrored.

    upload_2017-12-15_10-21-40.
    From