Tags:
  1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    At 1:09:43 in the July 26 2018 Episode of Those Conspiracy Guys, David Icke says:

    Let's have a look at the recent history of fertility from 1900 to modern times:
    http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/fertility_race/part1/timeline.shtml
    So there seem to be two reasons for the growth in fertility clinics after the 1960s - firstly the change in demographics with baby boomers delaying starting a family, and secondly the relative newness of the technology. In vitro fertilization (IVF) is a large part of fertility treatment now, but did not even exist in the 1960s.

    But what of his specific claim that "in the '60s , you never heard about fertility clinics"? Icke grew up in Leicester, in the UK midlands. It's not really clear WHY Icke would expect, as a child, to be aware of the number of fertility clinics. But even now there are only two in Leicester (a good sized city of 443,000 people). But much of the fertility treatments will be done in general practice and hospitals, on the NHS.
    Metabunk 2018-08-20 17-34-35.

    There are other issues, like the steep generational decline in sperm count. But it's not clear what role that plays in fertility.

    The use of the word fertility is a bit confusing. On an individual level it's got the more common meaning - how likely it is that someone will get pregnant when they are actively trying. But for a population "fertility" means how many live births per person per year — regardless of if they are trying or not, or what age they are. To see if there's a decline in fertility you need to look at the birth rate of a population of a certain age who are actively trying to get pregnant.

    Icke is using his lack of memory of fertility clinics in the 1960s as evidence for some kind of plot to reduce the birth rate. But his memory seems largely irrelevant to that claim.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  2. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    I remember the first test-tube baby. It wasn't talked about in a positive light (in my memory), people were like "ew".

    so besides the technology not being there, you also have to give the technology time to become accepted by the mainstream population. I'm sure gay night clubs have increased in number with mainstream acceptance too.
     
  3. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    CDC in 2016 report 1.7% of births are assisted.
    https://www.cdc.gov/art/artdata/index.html

    Although Britain, with it's socialized health may be higher. Many insurance companies in U.S don't cover IVF still.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Hevach

    Hevach Senior Member

    My great grandparents couldn't have children and they had to travel from Saginaw to Detroit, but they did consult a fertility specialist of some sort in the late 30's and again in the 40's before adopting. From what few stories I heard the specialists weren't particularly helpful but the second was at least able to determine my great grandfather was "almost totally" infertile, and at the time there was nothing to be done from there except refer them to a convent that placed orphans.

    But that's probably the long and short of it - they couldn't fix anything and all they did was put some meaningless words on what they already knew, they could never have kids of their own. They existed, but they weren't places of hope, they were places where you got bad news and no help. And before the days of Bob Dole talking about his junk on TV there was a lot of societal shame in infertility, so it wasn't a place many would have talked about going.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I'm personally mostly aware of fertility clinics because of my friends trying to have kids over the last 20 years. They all started relatively late in life. It's just not something you really would be aware of as a child.

    The other thing that springs to mind is the TV show "Masters of Sex", set in the 1950s and 1960s, based on real people and events, where William Masters starts out running a fertility clinic.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...an-idealised-image-of-what-sex-should-be.html
     
  6. deirdre

    deirdre Moderator Staff Member

    hmm. sounds like I'm wrong about this, but haven't found the actual report yet to confirm.

     
  7. darrenr

    darrenr Member

    I've never understood how anyone can brazenly suggest that there is a conspiracy to reduce population when all the evidence points in the other direction. I know Conspiracy Theorists are adept at ignoring the facts, but come on - 7.6 billion and rising. Whatever They are doing, it clearly isn't working.

    Or is it just the numbers of white people conspiracists are concerned about?

    As for Icke's suggestion ; Yes, people had kids a lot younger in the past, and more of them, but a lot of the kids died young too. Has he factored that into his equation?
     
  8. David Fraser

    David Fraser Senior Member

    Firstly I apologise for breaching the no click policy and I am on my mobile so can't paste
    Facts and figures for the UK are available here https://www.hfea.gov.uk

    The site is worth a read around. Essentially the HFEA monitor all of the NHS' fertility treatments including IVF. I don't want to get into the politics but treatments are rationed dependant on which Primary Care Trust one lives under. Some will only offer one cycle while some three and there are often stringent criteria to meet. That does not include those that decide to go private (yes even with the NHS there is a private sector).
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Steven Ian

    Steven Ian Closed Account

    Office for National Statistics documents:
    The UK population is growing

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...es/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/mar2017


    As a sidenote: A newborn baby boy could expect to live 79.2 years and a newborn baby girl 82.9 years if mortality rates remain the same as they were in the UK in 2014 to 2016 throughout their lives.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ns/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2014to2016


    Neither of those statistic's support David Icke's memory based theory of a population cull, although some may argue that is because of immigration that Britain has grew by half a million.

    That would still not explain why world population is still on the increase:
    http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

    Some may say "ah, but the rate of increase is decreasing from previous years", in which case i will wait until it is actually devolving in the opposite direction before subscribing to it
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2019
  10. Loki Thorson

    Loki Thorson New Member

    David Icke seems to have a new found rise in popularity with the advent of the internet etc, after going off the radar on the demise of his sports reporting career, many people of my age (60s) remember him very well declaring himself to be the son of God on prime time TV, the Michael Parkinson chat show.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    It was actually on Terry Wogan's show, Wogan.


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NapHiWsoFXI

    Watching that interview in May 2016 after reading about Icke in Jon Ronson's book Them was what, unfortunately, opened my eyes to the world of the flat earth belief. And now I'm here. ;)
     
  12. Loki Thorson

    Loki Thorson New Member

    I stand corrected, yup Terry Wogan..for quite some time he was completely off the radar, only coming to the fore quite recently. He has opinions on Sandy Hook, aliens, the moon etc. He has sellout tours, DVDs and books etc. Nice little earners.
     
  13. Rory

    Rory Senior Member

    I think he's been well known for a while. His books And The Truth Shall Set You Free (1995) and The Biggest Secret (1999) were both big sellers; I'd see them around a lot in the late 90s/early 2000s.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1