Ukraine National Guard dip bullets in pig fat

NoParty said:
Snopes took a shot at this, today: Confirming that yes,
these a-holes are now a part of the National Guard
(allowed, evidently because the've fought well)
but really emphasizing what a tiny, tiny fraction of the Guard
that they are:
"...anywhere from 900 to 2,500prior to the Russian invasion, while the Ukrainian standing military in total was composed of about 200,000 troops..."
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Snopes did not "really emphasize" that. I don't like Snopes, but to suggest they are neo-nazi apologists sounds a bit unfair.
 
deirdre said:
Snopes did not "really emphasize" that. I don't like Snopes, but to suggest they are neo-nazi apologists sounds a bit unfair.
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I get that misinterpreting posts is kind of your thing, deirdre,
but for God's sake, can you reign in the misinformation, even a bit?

For those that didn't read it, the Snopes article listed above absolutely does not
come off as "neo-Nazi apologist," even a tiny bit, nor did I in any way imply otherwise.
This is just nuts.

I do however, take some comfort in deirdre's dislike of Snopes. ;P
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/02/what-is-ukraines-azov-battalion/
 
Agent K said:
It is what it looks like. Twitter even flagged it for hateful conduct.
They have vulgar tweets as well, like this one that says: How to make a white flag (Instructions for a Russian soldier)
The white part on top says "Keep," and beneath it, "Cut the fuck off"

Source: https://twitter.com/ng_ukraine/status/1498574194166181890
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It’s counterintuitive—but maybe true I guess—to think a just society can broadly encourage you to physically attack and kill someone but broadly criticize you for verbally attacking them.

When we played sports growing up we talked shit constantly but you crossed the line when you tried to physically injure someone. I’m glad it wasn’t the other way around.
 
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Woolery said:
When we played sports growing up we talked shit constantly but you crossed the line when you tried to physically injure someone.
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when i grew up the guys talked sh*t constantly and seemed ok with physically injuring someone. Now whe n you google "bad new bears fight" they dont even have images of the fights.

times change.
 
Rory said:
Seems emblematic of "snowflake" culture. I've long mused how in the New Age judging a murderer is more greatly looked down on than the murder itself.
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The military and some sports like boxing are inherently violent, but in its PR the military tries to project professionalism and discipline, not bigotry or swearing like a sailor.
 
Agent K said:
in its PR the military tries to project professionalism and discipline, not bigotry or swearing
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I guess it depends on which military. And I think we're long enough in the tooth to not believe the image certain militaries put across anyway.
 
NoParty said:
I do however, take some comfort in deirdre's dislike of Snopes. ;P
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/02/what-is-ukraines-azov-battalion/
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The punditry at the end of that sticks out a little: "the Azov Battalion — a force populated by neo-Nazis worldwide" - is it really "populated by" (which I would infer as implying a majority or large minority) "neo-Nazis worldwide"? Are there any numbers to support that claim, or is it just rhetoric to increase the impact of a scary narrative? I'd not bat an eyelid at "has many members who have come from overseas" or similar, but being "populated by" is a very different claim to me.
 
FatPhil said:
The punditry at the end of that sticks out a little:
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that's not why i dont like snopes. (most of our news and fact checkers lean left, i'm used to it)
1. i side with the wife and 2. google "buzzfeed snopes plagiarize"
 
deirdre said:
that's not why i dont like snopes. (most of our news and fact checkers lean left, i'm used to it)
1. i side with the wife and 2. google "buzzfeed snopes plagiarize"
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I've known about those two since they were contributors to afu. I liked what they were doing back then, so I still maintain a little bit of sympathy towards what's left of what they created, but it's not perfect. At least they provide their sources, so you can check what they checked and see if it merits the weight they give it. That dude I quoted? Nah, not so convinced. So be it. At least I did my own research ;-)
 
Mendel said:
war is sometimes unavoidable, but you're not supposed to enjoy it
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Articles about soldiers who enjoyed and even miss war:

https://whyy.org/segments/do-soldiers-sometimes-enjoy-combat/

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a28718/why-men-love-war/

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/1999/may/26/features11.g23

For example:

"One day I secured a direct hit on an enemy encampment, saw bodies or parts of bodies go up in the air, and heard the desperate yelling of the wounded or the runaways," wrote an officer commanding a trench mortar in world war one. "I had to confess to myself that it was one of the happiest moments of my life."
Content from External Source

Or:

“You see people nowadays that are hooked on drugs, heroin, cocaine, whatever the case may be,” [one Afghanistan vet] said. “The biggest high you can ever get is a natural adrenaline rush. Somebody trying to kill you. There’s nothing that will ever come close to that rush.”
Content from External Source

Or:

“For the rest of that night it was impossible to sleep. I could talk about nothing else for days after,” [wrote] an RAF pilot from World War II [...] after downing two enemy pilots. “There was nothing else. I could think about it for weeks after. It was sweet and very intoxicating.”
Content from External Source

Apparently it's a somewhat controversial topic; I never knew that. I've believed since childhood - probably some documentary I watched as a kid - that some people find nothing much compares to the camaraderie, sense of presence, excitement and aliveness of combat.
 
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Rory said:
Who says you're not supposed to enjoy it?
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to enjoy it, you'd need to dehumanize the people you're shooting at, and the civilians who will unavoidably die as a consequence

your sources:
Article:
“You see people nowadays that are hooked on drugs, heroin, cocaine, whatever the case may be,” he said. “The biggest high you can ever get is a natural adrenaline rush. Somebody trying to kill you. There’s nothing that will ever come to that rush.”

are you supposed to enjoy heroin?
Article:
"To see war and see ourselves in war as we really are - pretty nasty creatures - is a good thing."

War is just so bloody unheroic most of time. One moment, you feel strong, the next a missile out of nowhere has turned you into a statistic and cut your life, your hopes and dreams short.
 
Mendel said:
War is just so bloody unheroic most of time. One moment, you feel strong, the next a missile out of nowhere has turned you into a statistic and cut your life, your hopes and dreams short.
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Yep, it's not for everyone - probably wouldn't work for someone like me either - but it's clear that some people enjoy it. And not just in a negative way, but for things like the camaraderie and the sense of actually doing something rather than the mundanity of many lives.
 
Rory said:
. And not just in a negative way, but for things like the camaraderie and the sense of actually doing something rather than the mundanity of many lives.
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i think some men enjoy killing the enemy as well. i was thinking of the cold war and the commie b*rds, but figure Mendel will insist on a source :) so i'll go with jihadists, they seem to enjoy killing infidels.

but in fairness Mendel did say "you're not supposed to enjoy it". like how you're not supposed to cheat on your wife/husband. ie. a morality thing.
 
Ann K said:
The grease used included tallow supplied by the Indian firm of Gangadarh Banerji & Co
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Banerji (in various spellings) is a Hindu name - in fact usually Brahmin - so it is highly unlikely they would use cow fat. 'Tallow' is a generic term for animal fat, so they could well have used fat from sheep, goats, geese, ducks, etc. Or buffaloes, which apparently don't count as cows for religious purposes. I have eaten buffalo steak in India.
 
Agent K said:
On the subject of imprudent Ukrainian social media posts, Ukraine's special forces posted that Russian artillerymen will no longer be taken prisoner, but "will be slaughtered like pigs."

Article:
The SSO Brotherhood of Ukraine sends its greetings to the Russian artillery! We congratulate you: after you bombarded our peaceful cities, our relatives, children, loved ones - you, worms, became our number one target... Now look, worms: you don't see your targets and it's sort of easier for you. But believe me: it will never be easier for you scum. We already have information about you... From now on, there will be no more captured Russian artillerymen. No mercy, no "please don't kill, I surrender" will be accepted. Every crew member, no matter: commander, driver, spotter, loader - will be slaughtered like pigs. Piss your pants, we've already come for you. Call your mom one last time. Say you gonna die soon jackal. We are not death, we are worse!
Translated
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Well well, they removed "From now on, there will be no more captured Russian artillerymen. No mercy, no 'please don't kill, I surrender' will be accepted," and "will be slaughtered like pigs."
It would be a war crime, and it might have discouraged Russian soldiers from surrendering to collect their 5 million rubles, which is probably more than four times their annual salary.

"Come out with a white flag and receive amnesty and 5 000 000 rubles for combat vehicles and weapons!"

Source: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1498359087184109572
 
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Agent K said:
It might have discouraged Russian soldiers from surrendering to collect their 5 million rubles
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it might be illegal. dont they have war rules about opponents who surrender?

i have to say, as the days go on, these Ukrainians aren't sounding very "european". i'm not saying they have to be like europeans, i'm just surprised how much they dont seem to know about PR.
 
deirdre said:
it might be illegal. dont they have war rules about opponents who surrender?
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I added that it would be a war crime. They may have figured that artillerymen who commit war crimes by shelling civilians forfeit protection, but they did end up deleting that part.
Even "The posting of the videos showing captured Russian troops raised questions about whether Ukraine had violated Article 13 of the Geneva Conventions, calling for the protection of prisoners of war 'against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.'"
"Captured Russian Troops Call Home While Filmed by Ukrainian Officials, Raising Geneva Convention Questions"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/captured-russian-troops-call-home-192433490.html
 
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