UK Met Office claim contrail form below -57C

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Recently Look-Up.org.uk made a claim that the Met Office had informed him that the temperature for the formation of contrails must be -57C

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1416500845255774&id=1410029482561123&stream_ref=10

I contacted the Met Office myself and I received the same response as above. I challenged the figure of -57C and after a few emails I received this response.

Simply they made a mistake and hopefully are in the process of correcting their standard email about contrails.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Very good. Although the revised statement "contrail formation typically occurs at temperatures below about minus 45 °C", could be a little misleading, as it's just specifying a typical range, and is not setting a warmest limit, which is typically given as the nice round figure -40°C/-40°F, although exhaust contrails can also form at slightly warmer temperatures.
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
It would be really useful if they could include in the explanation about the need that as the exhaust progressively mixes with the environment, water saturation must be reached for condensation to occur. That is the Appleman Criterion and is at the foundation of how we understand contrail formation. After that qualitative discussion, some numbers can be offered for typical conditions in practice.

This is The Met Office. You'd think they would have this right.
 

Jason

Senior Member
Does an error like this bode well for the "chemtrailers" or give them ammunition?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
I posted this on another thread, you can see Look-up uses that 57 degrees in one of their comments when trying to argue with this one lady that actually has a pretty good point. However, Look-up blatantly told her that her comments were going to be deleted anyway

Look up.png
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
It all gives them ammunition. They see it as proof now, but if they correct it, they will just see it as covering it up.

Despite the fact that the correction will bring them in line with all the scientific literature. Ian also quotes 37000ft as the official figure for the minimum altitude for contrail formation but I have no idea where he got that altitude from. I get the feeling he just made it up
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Ian also quotes 37000ft as the official figure for the minimum altitude for contrail formation

Perhaps Ian might read this thread, in which case I personally can attest that this is incorrect. Here is someone else with actual video evidence also, showing contrails...these many flights are not "ALL" above 37,000 feet!:

This is what's known as 'proper' documentation. This bloke acquired a very, very good camera set-up, and coordinated his plane-spotting with FlightRadar24 in order to identify these flights accurately.

Here's another effort, maybe not as good (meaning, 'expensive') camera set-up, but we see the altitudes annotated:

If you don't wish to watch the video, this is the list of airliners and altitudes, taken from the video description:

1,Boeing-777 Emirates (35,000 feet)
2,Boeing-747 Korean Air (33,000 feet)
3,Airbus A380 Emirates (37,000 feet)
4,Airbus A340 Lufthansa (37,000 feet)
5,Airbus A340 Etihad Airways (39,000 feet)
6,Boeing 737 Malev (30,000 feet)
7,Airbus A330 Qatar Airways (38,000 feet)
8,Airbus A320 Wizz Air (35,000 feet)
9,Boeing 747 Korean Air (25,000 feet)
10,Boeing 747 China Air (34,000 feet)
11,Boeing 747 Lufthansa (33,000 feet)
12,Airbus A340 Lufthansa (33,000 feet)
13,Airbus A380 Emirates (35,000 feet)
14,Boeing 767 Transaero (35,000 feet)
15,Boeing 777 Qatar Airways (35,000 feet)
16,Airbus A320 Vladivostok Air (35,000 feet)
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member.
Perhaps Ian might read this thread, in which case I personally can attest that this is incorrect. Here is someone else with actual video evidence also, showing contrails...these many flights are not "ALL" above 37,000 feet!:

This is what's known as 'proper' documentation. This bloke acquired a very, very good camera set-up, and coordinated his plane-spotting with FlightRadar24 in order to identify these flights accurately.

Here's another effort, maybe not as good (meaning, 'expensive') camera set-up, but we see the altitudes annotated:

If you don't wish to watch the video, this is the list of airliners and altitudes, taken from the video description:

1,Boeing-777 Emirates (35,000 feet)
2,Boeing-747 Korean Air (33,000 feet)
3,Airbus A380 Emirates (37,000 feet)
4,Airbus A340 Lufthansa (37,000 feet)
5,Airbus A340 Etihad Airways (39,000 feet)
6,Boeing 737 Malev (30,000 feet)
7,Airbus A330 Qatar Airways (38,000 feet)
8,Airbus A320 Wizz Air (35,000 feet)
9,Boeing 747 Korean Air (25,000 feet)
10,Boeing 747 China Air (34,000 feet)
11,Boeing 747 Lufthansa (33,000 feet)
12,Airbus A340 Lufthansa (33,000 feet)
13,Airbus A380 Emirates (35,000 feet)
14,Boeing 767 Transaero (35,000 feet)
15,Boeing 777 Qatar Airways (35,000 feet)
16,Airbus A320 Vladivostok Air (35,000 feet)

Doesn't matter. Those are automatically chemtrails because they're lower than the magic altitude as far as he is concerned. I don't know if someone has told him and he's accepted it without question or he's made it up and convinced himself it's true or he's made it up and he knows full well it's incorrect, but as far as he is concerned any trail lower than that height is a chemtrail.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Doesn't matter. Those are automatically chemtrails because they're lower than the magic altitude as far as he is concerned.

Well then....Ian, if you're reading this...try to explain this video (yeah, it's been posted before, elsewhere on MB):


From the description:
Starting at 00:15, the video maker (a fellow pilot himself) describes how he videoed another jet's contrail, one that passed by him in the opposite direction (along the same route..at 27,000 feet)...and this other jet's contrail extended (and persisted) for over 400 miles.

Of particular import is beginning at 2:00, when it is imperative to explain to "chemtrail enthusiasts" just how BIG the sky is. Don't let the math daunt you...in fact, check the math as much as you wish, and pay close attention to what the narrator is describing.

(Spoiler alert: In the math he uses for this example, any "chemical" that is potentially being "sprayed" would be at a concentration so low as to be equivalent to taking 1/100th of an aspirin tablet and dissolving it in 7 1/2 gallons of water. Time reference 3:15.)
 
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