NY Times: In Italian Schools, Reading, Writing and Recognizing Fake News

DJC

Member
Is Nasa and JPL Putting out fake news ? or is this just misleading ...if you were in high school and you saw this video from nasa wouldnt you think these are the planets they found ? Do we say Nasa lies or misleads us or ...?
Screen Shot 2017-10-20 at 10.03.58 PM.png
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
asking the question do they look like their child was just murdered ...
You have reading comprehension issues, dude.
mm.JPG

about the laughing happy parents

and no one is laughing. Why would they be laughing when their picture is being professionally taken? You 'smile and say cheese' when getting a photo taken.

in which case you your belief in what they are doing or thinking or what happened is bias to discerning if its fake news or not ..
Noone asked you a question about what the family is doing. The claim of evidence is: "But here she is".

besides why does anyone care about the third picture ...why would a high school kid have to understand whats going on there ...its not part of their reality ts not part of their life it doesn't affect them in any way.....
You obviously care. You care enough to mock parents who lost a child. And as you well know Sandy Hook is a Conspiracy Theory.

the OP is about a program that teaches kids to discern conspiracy theories and fake news from FACT.

I see the entire concept of the OP is lost on you.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
...if you were in high school and you saw this video from nasa wouldnt you think these are the planets they found ?
That is the purpose of the school program. To teach students how to differentiate what is real, what is cgi, what is an illustration, what is an advertisement, what is fake news.
 

DJC

Member
You have reading comprehension issues, dude.
mm.JPG



and no one is laughing. Why would they be laughing when their picture is being professionally taken? You 'smile and say cheese' when getting a photo taken.


Noone asked you a question about what the family is doing. The claim of evidence is: "But here she is".


You obviously care. You care enough to mock parents who lost a child. And as you well know Sandy Hook is a Conspiracy Theory.

the OP is about a program that teaches kids to discern conspiracy theories and fake news from FACT.

I see the entire concept of the OP is lost on you.

DONT THEY LOOK SAD is the only question there ? and No they do not ....is my answer

and if your asking is that their child in the first pic .then i would have to say YES it is ..i assumed that was the girl in the pic same size age hair colour same dress ? m i missing something ?

and no one mocked anyone ? i just told you what i observed and what any high school kid would observe ..so either this is a bad example that you gave or you just feel that your right .

there is no answers to that pic to teach any kids ..and if if that is your answer then this is exactly why i would never let them do this in my sons class ...
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
there is no answers to that pic to teach any kids
and if your asking is that their child in the first pic .then i would have to say YES it is ..i assumed that was the girl in the pic same size age hair colour same dress ? m i missing something ?

the answer is on Metabunk. and multiple websites around the web. so yes, you are missing something. It's called the truth.

DONT THEY LOOK SAD is the only question there
No. That is not the question at all. And there is no "they", you only see one parent and in the clear photo she does not look happy in the least. But this line of discussion is off topic. You can comment on the appropriate threads.
 

DJC

Member
@DJC

So let's look at the Fukishima meme.
CKcOEUsWcAEkKMo.png



is it
A. True?
B. Partially true but reported with bias
C. Fake news


Its B which really means C

and im not on trial here ...
My point was .and is ..that you cannot teach kids whats real and whats not ..you can tell them only to investigate for themselves and thats it ...
whats that saying ? theres a sucker born every minute ....ya you cant fix that ..no matter what
so all i see this as is a way to direct kids to believe what you want them to believe ..propaganda

[off topic text removed]
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
you can tell them only to investigate for themselves and that's it ...
that is the entire point of teaching critical thinking skills.

and im not on trial here ...
You seem to be missing the benefit of the program as it relates to your distrust of the government though. Even if the teachers are biased, in order to teach the students to research whether 'conspiracy'/'conservative' news is fake or real or somewhere in between.. they have to teach the EXACT SAME skills students would use to be skeptical of 'liberal' news also.
 

txt29

Senior Member.
Do we say Nasa lies or misleads us or ...?
No, we don't. It took me 10 seconds to find the page on NASA's website, where the video was published. It clearly states:
https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...h-of-earth-size-habitable-zone-planets-around
Please note especially the words "artist's concept".

Students tought to check news will be able to do the same as easily as I did, so if anyone claims the images are true photos of exoplanets, they'll be able to identify it as bunk. And you can do it even without finding the source - even the best telescopes are barely capable of taking comparably detailed photos of planets in our own Solar system, hence any image of an exoplanet bigger than a few pixels across currently cannot be anything else than an imaginary artist concept.
 
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Inti

Senior Member.
that is the entire point of teaching critical thinking skills.


You seem to be missing the benefit of the program as it relates to your distrust of the government though. Even if the teachers are biased, in order to teach the students to research whether 'conspiracy'/'conservative' news is fake or real or somewhere in between.. they have to teach the EXACT SAME skills students would use to be skeptical of 'liberal' news also.

I agree completely. However, I would also like to mention this comment by Kevin LaPlante who is well known for teaching critical thinking;
http://criticalthinkeracademy.com/courses/what-is-critical-thinking/lectures/51616

That podcast/article is very much on topic here, and we'll worth reading/listening in full.

So a good, broadly based general education are also needed. And elements of critical thinking should be embedded in many subjects, where we ask questions about how we know things, from science to history, and in literature, where, for example we might learn that people in conditions of grief don't always behave in a single stereotypical manner as shown in films and soap operas.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
Was this your experience?
(it sure wasn't mine).
When I was college, doing my journalism HND we had a series of classes in public administration. learning how stuff like the courts, government (local and national) works, a basic over view of UK law etc. One class we discussed the role of the monarchy in UK society. The first thing the tutor did was take a hands up pole on who in the class supported the monarchy and who opposed it. The result was rough 50/50 split. He then got those of us opposed to the monarchy to argue in favour of it, and those who supported it to argue for its abolition. Whilst I don't think the exercise changed anyone's stand point, it did make us all consider all the facts and stand points around the issue.

I think this whole Italian proposal is a very very good idea. If people know how to check facts and examine arguments from all angles, be they CT, official or whatever, then the winner isn't 'the powers that be' or the CT brigade it's the TRUTH, and only people with something to hide themselves would really be afraid of the the truth coming out, or people learning to REALLY think for themselves.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
colleges in general do tend to be very liberal/progressive.
Oh, I know. :p I went to the university probably best known for liberal/progressives... :)

Whilst I don't think the exercise changed anyone's stand point, it did make us all consider all the facts and stand points around the issue...I think this whole Italian proposal is a very very good idea.
Some of my ugly past is quite similar to MikeG's, but I generally shy from sharing as much as he does
(I always appreciate his contributions). I will always advocate teaching more critical thinking skills.,
in middle school, high school, university...and yes, even Italy.

As for me, I definitely came out of college more progressive than I went in, but that probably had little to do with liberal professors. (Many were more than 40 years older than me!) More that I had been raised in a conservative community
by a very conservative father...and college often meant that "common sense" and "obvious truths"
I had been indoctrinated with at a young age, finally got thoroughly examined...and often did not survive serious scrutiny.
 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
and how can you create a discussion or start any kind of dialogue if you didnt share unverified news? isnt that what this site is based on ?

Dialogue to investigate a hunch and dialogue to seek verification or rejection of a hypothesis built on a hunch is one thing.

Hitting the share button on a social media feed to spread some wildly speculative unsourced conspiracy theory that is presented as confirmed fact is another.

This site tries to steer the latter toward the former.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Heres a quick example of propaganda and government involvement in schools

they tore down the statue of davis they kicked it ? Why? WHo told them to be angry ? its an elementary school from 5 - 12 years old

Their parents are the source of their anger toward the statue and what is represented, not the government.

does anyone care that he is a war criminal ?

It doesn't seem so.

By your definition of war criminal applied to Obama, is there a president since Kennedy that isn't? You indictment of Obama can be applied every president in my lifetime except perhaps Carter.

Obama is certainly more honorable to the people in Mississippi who's kids attend that school than Jefferson Davis.

I'm not sure that the people in this event wanting to name their school after Obama instead of Jefferson Davis is a good example of a propaganda driven behavior.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Im asking if the school will tell the students that the school is named after a man that is responsible for bombing 8 countries and murdering close to or over a million people ?

Is there any serious school in the US teaching kids that Nixon, Reagan, the Bushes, Clinton, Obama, are war criminals? Government school or otherwise?

None of the presidents were presented to me like that. I was in school when Raygun and Maggie were besties. They were presented to me as great and honorable people and I did not attend government school.

or will they tell the kids he was a great man ..?

To the people in that school I reckon he is a damn sight better than Jefferson Davis.
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
I was in school when Raygun and Maggie were besties. They were presented to me as great and honorable people and I did not attend government school.

Compared to my state run 6th form college at the time where some of my unashamedly lefty teachers painted them blacker than Satans arm pit. (For context - this was in Birkenhead, UK at the time all the ship yards were closing and the towns unemployment rates were doing a fair impression of a moonshot.)
 

arica

New Member
An interesting reaction against fake news and conspiracy theories comes from Italy, where a new school program attempts to inoculate an entire generation against disinformation by giving them a toolbox of techniques for spotting it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/world/europe/italy-fake-news.html


Great intentions, but it will be very interesting to see how it pans out over the first year. One also wonders how such a program might come across in the US in the current political environment. Conspiracy theorists themselves are quick to label news they do not like as fake news, but would they be suspicious of a school program that attempted to teach children to verify information for themselves? "Do your own research" is a popular refrain - but is often applied backwards, meaning "watch research or propaganda videos created by others". How would those people feel when they children came home from school newly skeptical of their parent's YouTube knowledge?

It is curious why this program started in Italy because as far as Europe goes, it doesn't have a great record journalistic freedom. They have recently passed legislation which bringing fourth harsher penalties for defamation

Also this,
Over the last 10 years, the effects of Berlusconi’s long-running conflict of interest on media pluralism have appeared particularly evident in several occasions, among them the creation of Legge Gasparri, TV legislation approved in 2004 and designed to favour the Prime Minister’s interests in this sector (see section 6.1)

Well intentioned indeed... I don't know the usefulness of such a program in an environment where the media is so stifled already. For Italy to have a better media and press environment will require the government to change in very fundamental ways and I doubt whatever fake-news awareness will go so far as to advocate for that.

I am trying to find more information about this program and its origins. Thanks in advance for responses.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It is curious why this program started in Italy because as far as Europe goes, it doesn't have a great record journalistic freedom.

I think the focus is more online internet. In the U.S data show that 80% of people 18-49 get their news through social media vs tv or newspapers. I don't know what Italy's stats are (and don't feel like looking since I don't speak Italian), but one can assume it is also high.

Online is international. So legislation within any country can only go so far. Boldrini has major issues with Facebook (who they say is now working with her on the program, along with google/youtube)

Boldrini
has a website but unfortunately my computer wont translate it. I translated one paragraph though

But I'm sure you can find out more about her and her program if you are willing to do a lot of Italian to English translating.
 

Tedsson

Member
Because the program is how to tell what is real and fake ON THE INTERNET.

Which of these three examples are REAL news?

1.
CKcOEUsWcAEkKMo.png

2.

pop.JPG


3.
AAEAAQAAAAAAAAduAAAAJGVkYTJhNGMzLTg4MjItNDYxNC04MGMyLTY0NzQ4NmJhNWM2Mg.jpg

Right. Without googling I will go with false/true/false.

1. False. Could be a normal genetic mutation. Or, pinched and arranged by fingers into shape. What was the “Fukishima crash” anyway?

2. Probably true given that their numbers must be growing somewhere between arithmetically and geometrically.

3. False. Dunno. Picture taken before the slaughter. Overwhelmed by the presence of POTUS. Smiling for the camera. Don’t know enough about the provenance of the photo.

Points out of three?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Points out of three?
you got 1. right.

2 is an advertisement dressed up to look like a real newspaper article. This is one of the things the kids in studies missed, ie. how to tell if something is a real article vs. an advertisement. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/15/the-atlantic-scientology-post_n_2477987.html

3 Of course is false. did you actually read any of the text either? The hoax claim has nothing to do with whether the mom is smiling or not. The meme is claiming the young girl is still alive. She isn't; that is her little sister in the photo with Obama.
 

Rory

Senior Member.
Right. Without googling I will go with false/true/false.

1. False. Could be a normal genetic mutation. Or, pinched and arranged by fingers into shape. What was the “Fukishima crash” anyway?

2. Probably true given that their numbers must be growing somewhere between arithmetically and geometrically.

3. False. Dunno. Picture taken before the slaughter. Overwhelmed by the presence of POTUS. Smiling for the camera. Don’t know enough about the provenance of the photo.

Points out of three?
I think the point is that you're supposed to google, not just guess and see if you got some right. It's not about getting them right, it's about developing the skills so you can figure it out for sure.
 
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