No, Ron Johnson is not a gang member

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CapnPegleg

Member
From Twitter:
But this is a hand signal for the (historically black) fraternity that Johnson is a member of, Kappa Alpha Psi:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-missouri-ron-johnson-gang-kappa-alpha-psi

20140820-125549-geepo.jpg
 
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Jason

Senior Member
From Twitter:
But this is a hand signal for the (historically black) fraternity that Johnson is a member of, Kappa Alpha Psi:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ferguson-missouri-ron-johnson-gang-kappa-alpha-psi
What gang symbol is he "allegedly" making?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
What gang symbol is he "allegedly" making?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5695400

Which is ridiculous. The actual gang sign spells out the word 'blood' (pretty neat tbh):

(Credit: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Bloods_-_Gang_Sign DOT jpg)

I guess there could be other signs associated with the gang, but even so it's just a sign, pretty vague, could be linked to just about anything. Glad it's not the illuminati for once.
 
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Landru

Moderator
Staff member
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5695400

Which is ridiculous. The actual gang sign spells out the word 'blood' (pretty neat tbh):

(Credit: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Bloods_-_Gang_Sign DOT jpg)

I guess there could be other signs associated with the gang, but even so it's just a sign, pretty vague, could be linked to just about anything. Glad it's not the illuminati for once.
Different streets can have different gang signs. The Piru Street gang (affiliated with the Bloods):




From http://www.crimelibrary.com/photogallery/gang-signs.html?curPhoto=29
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Different streets can have different gang signs. The Piru Street gang (affiliated with the Bloods):




From http://www.crimelibrary.com/photogallery/gang-signs.html?curPhoto=29
Sure, but it's not the same sign. Having the 'O' being on top or bottom makes a huuuuge difference. I scrolled through a lot of the signs on the link you posted and none were the same, that one is probably closest but it's not the same. Perhaps if someone can find a reference showing it exactly how he is doing it then a connection could be made, but even so it's pretty obvious at this point it was intended as a fraternity symbol.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Sure, but it's not the same sign. Having the 'O' being on top or bottom makes a huuuuge difference. I scrolled through a lot of the signs on the link you posted and none were the same, that one is probably closest but it's not the same. Perhaps if someone can find a reference showing it exactly how he is doing it then a connection could be made, but even so it's pretty obvious at this point it was intended as a fraternity symbol.
Never said it was just that there are more than one sign for a gang. In no way did I suggest that Ron Johnson was flashing a gang sign.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
What's the difference between a gang and a fraternity?
Social and financial status?

http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/gangcolor/gangmemb.htm
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Social and financial status?

http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297c/poverty_prejudice/gangcolor/gangmemb.htm
No, while the poverty might be a leading cause of the crime, the defining attribute of a gang is crime, not poverty.

There are plenty of social clubs in poor areas that are not gangs.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Okay stupid question I guess in the context of the implied criminality association of the claim.

Not really down with 'gang' reality where I am, I thought a gang can just be a shared interest/outlook, but I see the modern use of the word specifically refers to criminal enterprise and territorial control.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
No, while the poverty might be a leading cause of the crime, the defining attribute of a gang is crime, not poverty.

There are plenty of social clubs in poor areas that are not gangs.
You don't think there is a culture of crime, at least to some extent, in middle-class white bred fraternities like rape, hazing rituals resulting in death, drugs, or something more benign like cheating on that chemistry final?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You don't think there is a culture of crime, at least to some extent, in middle-class white bred fraternities like rape, hazing rituals resulting in death, drugs, or something more benign like cheating on that chemistry final?
"To some extent" there's a culture of crime everywhere.

There are many difference difference between a gang and a fraternity. Compare the Wikipedia entries. This was a fraternity sign, not a gang sign. That's the issue here.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Never said it was just that there are more than one sign for a gang. In no way did I suggest that Ron Johnson was flashing a gang sign.
Ok, I understand there is more than one sign, but that point is moot unless you can actually find reference showing that the sign in the OP actually IS related to that gang.
My point is, there's not even evidence that the symbol he used has to do with the gang. So without even knowing that it has to do with a fraternity, all you have left is 'there's no connection between that sign and that gang.'
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Ok, I understand there is more than one sign, but that point is moot unless you can actually find reference showing that the sign in the OP actually IS related to that gang.
My point is, there's not even evidence that the symbol he used has to do with the gang. So without even knowing that it has to do with a fraternity, all you have left is 'there's no connection between that sign and that gang.'
Agreed, someone put there are hands in a certain way therefore it must be a gang sign. Bunk.
 
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solrey

Senior Member.
While there are differences between gangs and fraternities, there are more similarities than most imagine. How much difference is there between flashing a fraternity sign or a gang sign?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_rape

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/05/06/us/behind-some-fraternity-walls-brothers-in-crime.html

http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/c...oe=UTF-8#search="fraternity crime statistics"

http://time.com/100084/campus-sexual-assault-fraternities/
 

MikeC

Closed Account
And how does that make fraternities the same as gangs?

Gangs exist FOR THE PURPOSE of committing crime.

People in fraternities commit crimes because they are people - as do people who are not in fraternities OR gangs.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
How much difference is there between flashing a fraternity sign or a gang sign?
It's irrelevant how much difference you think there is. Even the sources you cite say there are differences. The point is it's a fraternity sign, not a gang sign.

Now if you want to argue about how terrible fraternities are, then that's an entirely different topic.
 

Sgt.Tinfoil

Member
No, while the poverty might be a leading cause of the crime, the defining attribute of a gang is crime, not poverty.
Exactly. When rich people organize a gang the organization is called then social club, mafia, enterprise or political party. Main point is that rich people do crimes too so the driving force for that kinda activity is not the poverty. And no I am not saying that poverty cannot affect on criminal behiavior to some individuals or can't cause it.
 
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solrey

Senior Member.
Where did I say there were no differences or that gangs and fraternities were exactly the same? Of course there are differences, however there are also many similarities.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Where did I say there were no differences or that gangs and fraternities were exactly the same? Of course there are differences, however there are also many similarities.
You asked in a previous post:

How much difference is there between flashing a fraternity sign or a gang sign?
I explained the difference between gangs and fraternities, and you disagreed with me - so if you don't think the difference is that gangs exist for the purpose of crime and fraternities do not, then what is it that you think IS the difference?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Agreed, someone put there are hands in a certain way therefore it must be a gang sign. Bunk.
l o l that's not exactly what I said but I'll roll with it. Apparently 3 people agree with the way you phrased it but nobody agrees with how I phrased it :oops: I'm thinking my contribution has been nil.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
l o l that's not exactly what I said but I'll roll with it. Apparently 3 people agree with the way you phrased it but nobody agrees with how I phrased it :oops: I'm thinking my contribution has been nil.
I disagree. My post was not as clear as it could be. Now I believe it's clearer.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Since he's clearly not throwing a gang sign, then there's nothing more to add here, so i'm closing this thread.
 
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