Major UFO experiences are specific to the observer

[Scaramanga]

I came across this illusion on Facebook, and I think it's closely related to the discussion of interpreting giant triangular craft from three lights in the sky (discussed in this thread e.g. here):

I think it's more profoundly absurd and basic even than that. I think a segment of the population simply don't realise that 3 lights will produce a triangle by default. I mean, there is no other shape that 3 lights can produce ( except in the rare case of all being in a straight line ).

 

[Mendel]

I mean, there is no other shape that 3 lights can produce ( except in the rare case of all being in a straight line ).

Generally, yes, but e.g. the 3 lights on the MH370 "portal" circle.

 

[Edward Current]

I think it's more profoundly absurd and basic even than that. I think a segment of the population simply don't realise that 3 lights will produce a triangle by default. I mean, there is no other shape that 3 lights can produce ( except in the rare case of all being in a straight line ).

These people remember seeing much more detail than just 3 lights. I don't think that phenomenon should be dismissed.

The thing is, if there are three lights in the sky, most people will see three lights and get on with their evening. A very few people see something in addition to three lights that changes their lives, and it seems like those folks are the most hardcore UFO believers out there ("I know what I saw!"). That experience is what's specific to the observer.

 

[Ann K]

A very few people see something in addition to three lights that changes their lives, and it seems like those folks are the most hardcore UFO believers out there ("I know what I saw!"). That experience is what's specific to the observer.

Agreed, but I'm not sure about a single event that "changes their lives" thing. We have seen examples in these pages and elsewhere (sorry, don't have the references at my fingertips) of people who report the sighting of UFOs multiple times. That suggests to me that either they are already strong believers who see a "UFO" every time they spot a light in the sky or a bug on the lens, or they are simply people who like getting their names in the papers. It's hard to distinguish between the two.

 

[John J.]

(Continuing discussion about Farmington, 1950, from "The Ariel School, Zimbabwe UFO sighting" thread).

Possibly it was cottonwood tree seeds? In my experience, cotton seeds don't fly much. Just mentioning it as it might aid in finding the source to include "tree?"

Quite possibly, I'm not familiar with either.
(A few minutes later) Ah, found this, a NICAP article dated 08 November 2013, by Fran Ridge, https://www.nicap.org/reports/500316farmington_report2.htm

Thatcher emphatically denied an earlier report that the objects could have been small pieces of cotton fuzz floating in the atmosphere.

"It was not cotton," he said, "I saw several pieces of cotton fuzz floating around in the air at the time, but I was not sighting on any cotton."

The "cotton" report was started by State Patrolman Andy Andrews, who quoted several Farmington Residents as asserting it was cotton they saw. The residents denied Andrew's report.

The article also says

High winds and a dust storm prevented clear vision.

As at Ariel school, the accounts contain perhaps more variation than we might reasonably expect from witnesses seeing the same things;

One witness did a triangulation sighting on one of the objects... ...and estimated its size as approximately twice that of a B-29.
... ...
Marlow Webb... ...said the objects to the naked eye appeared to be about eight inches in diameter as seen from the ground. He described them as about the size of a dinner plate."

I've already speculated that floating spider silk (from ballooning/migrating spiders) is a better fit than cottonwood fluff in this case.

Maybe. I'm starting to wonder if people were just seeing any windblown debris, and due to the "spirit of the time" some thought, flying saucers.
The various online summaries all seem to use the same handful (well, perhaps 10 - 12) witness accounts, some given many years after the event, though there were supposedly many hundreds of witnesses. Even those accounts differ substantially; and one is from a then- 8 year-old boy who was at school in a different town; UFOs "from horizon to horizon"... but no-one else in Aztec noticed, it seems.*

A guy working at a car dealership in Farmington was told by someone they had seen "saucer-shaped objects",

Webb went out to have a look, and when he turned his eyes to the north, he said he could make out 12 to 20 objects. He said they were loosely arranged, certainly not flying in formation, but moving steadily from east to west.

"They were darting around almost like leaves in the sky being blown around," he said.

Webb watched the objects for approximately 10 to 15 minutes, then went back inside to work.

"Farmington reaches 70th anniversary of mass UFO sighting", Mike Easterling, Farmington Daily Times on Bearswire website https://bearswire-eu.usatoday.com/s...illed-skies-above-farmington-1950/5073795002/

If the objects were observable heading in the same direction for 10-15 minutes, that might be hard to reconcile with other estimates (altitude 2.000 feet, 15,000 feet or 20,000 feet; speed "more than 1000 miles an hour", "10 times faster than... jet planes" (NICAP article).

Also from the Farmington Daily Times anniversary article,

Zang Wood, former president of the San Juan County Historical Society, was a Farmington High School student in the fall of 1950 and said he never saw a thing.

"A lot of kids said they did," he said. "I don't know if it was mass hysteria or what."

*Maybe the people of Aztec were a bit more blasé about UFOs, having experienced a blatant hoax by con men flying saucer crash in 1948, Wikipedia, "Aztec crashed saucer hoax" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_crashed_saucer_hoax

 

[NorCal Dave]

*Maybe the people of Aztec were a bit more blasé about UFOs, having experienced a blatant hoax by con men flying saucer crash in 1948, Wikipedia, "Aztec crashed saucer hoax"

The problem here, is that Aztec NM has failed to capitalize on this supposed "mass sighting". The wife and I were just checking on the schedule for this years McMinnville UFO festival to see if we wanted to do a repeat visit. Far from a mas sighting, McMinnville's UFO claim to fame is a couple of likely hoaxed photos from the '50s that were found under the couch. Like Roswell or the Mothman festival, Aztec needs to step up their game.

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

From reading the thread I think @Edward Current's theory is possible for some cases, but if so, then it's an undiscovered phenomenon.
I don't know if that could be caused by the DMT produced in the brain, that would have to be demonstrated in some way.
Let's forget the "distant dots" misinterpreted by many inexperienced skywatchers (and some experienced ones) for a second.
If we take those "incredible experience" cases, with lots of details that seem "alien" or "high strangeness", then we have the following prosaic explanations already:
- hallucination due to stress
- hallucination due to psychosis
- hallucination due to mind altering drugs
- "genuine/good faith" hoaxes, and simply embellished memories (people who want to believe so desperately that convince themselves they've seen something extraordinary when they didn't)
- real hoaxes (liars, for money, notoriety, being accepted on a community)
- real weird planes and experimental classified aircraft (no anti gravity here, just unusual planes)

I've met some people with crazy experiences who do not believe in aliens, stories, and generally don't care about the subject (but note, they're not usually skywatchers either).
If those people were not hallucinating and were not totally inaccurate with their description, then I don't know in which category of the above they could fall in, as some of them really seem genuine in their experiences.
I see why some FBI reports in UFO cases say "the witness was credible", because some witnesses are credible.
But then there is almost no way to debunk and figure out exactly what they saw.
Especially if there's not real evidence to corroborate their sighting, like videos and photos.
My personal idea is that unless you're dealing with a crazy religious alien believer, then a single "hallucination" in the brain has to be explained and somewhat taken more seriously if they never experience anything similar again in their lives.

 

[Todd Feinman]

If those people were not hallucinating and were not totally inaccurate with their description, then I don't know in which category of the above they could fall in, as some of them really seem genuine in their experiences.

In my case, I've taken drugs in the past and I can assure you it was not a hallucination. Others saw them later. Almost identical descriptions. It happened, but there's nothing physical left to test.

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

In my case, I've taken drugs in the past and I can assure you it was not a hallucination. Others saw them later. Almost identical descriptions. It happened, but there's nothing physical left to test.

Sadly, no amount of weed made me see UFOs.
Should I upgrade to something heavier?
(JOKING)

 

[Todd Feinman]

The Sadly, no amount of weed made me see UFOs.
Should I upgrade to something heavier?
(JOKING)

Yep. LSD won't do it, etc. I've tried to see physical hallucinations under the influence and I just can't see them. It's very clear what is drug-induced hallucinations and what isn't. If I wanted to make up UFO stories for skeptics, I could have come up with more convincing ones, too..

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

Yep. LSD won't do it, etc. I've tried to see physical hallucinations under the influence and I just can't see them. It's very clear what is drug-induced hallucinations and what isn't. If I wanted to make up UFO stories for skeptics, I could have come up with more convincing ones, too..

Yeah some people assume that if you take LSD then you become delirious, which isn't the case.
Psychedelic hallucinations are generally incomparable to psychosis, there are however other drugs such as Stramonium which can make you see people that are not there, and why not aliens and demons.
The problem is that you can become oblivious to the fact that you're under the influence, and cannot distinguish real from fantasy anymore until the effect wears off.
Can happen with LSD and massive doses, but that doesn't generally translate to UFO reports.

 

[Todd Feinman]

It's also interesting that many folks on this forum seem to have had a long and deep interest in UFOs; I haven't. I haven't read all the books, etc. I occasionally picked up books of cases just for fun. I posted nothing about UFOs online before 2011.