Editorial in the New York Times discusses Geoengineering

JRBids said:
Harder to tan? You can burn pretty badly on a hazy day at the ocean. You should know that, being from the island. :)
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Didnt say you wouldnt tan just not as fast . You mean like at Smiths Point ? or Ditch Plains at Montauk ? :)
 
Joe said:
Didnt say you wouldnt tan just not as fast . You mean like at Smiths Point ? or Ditch Plains at Montauk ? :)
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It was Fire Island for me, at Robert Moses Park. Unless we took a road trip out to the Hamptons: Hot Dog Beach? :cool:
 
Joe said:
I thought I answered that . Yes I believe persistent contrails are a geoengineering scheme .
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George B said:
So you think dedicated aircraft are being used?
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Joe said:
Commercial aircraft mainly
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Joe; Let's get this straight...

You think that commercial aircraft are engaged in a geoengineering scheme which consists of intentionally making persistent contrails.
You think that they are intentionally flying in contrail forming conditions, and seeking out the ice-supersaturated regions so that the contrails they make will persist.

Is that what you are saying? The airlines are flight-planning all this? And the cockpit crews go out and fly the planned route to make persistent contrails?
 
Joe said:
Im just saying there is nothing wrong with increased Co2 . It gets warmer we have more land not less . The trees are happy the plants are happy and put out more oxygen . Do we know what the Oxygen level is compared to the co2 ? has Oxygen increased as well ? Its a hoax because its not getting warmer
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Okay, but then what does the deliberate contrail making achieve? You say it makes it cooler? (even though the small influence it has seems to be the opposite)
So why are they trying to make it cooler? How does that help their hoax?
 
Joe said:
Im just saying there is nothing wrong with increased Co2 . It gets warmer we have more land not less .
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How do you figure that? The increased evaporation from seas is more than outweighed by "unlocking" of water in ice sheets!

The trees are happy the plants are happy and put out more oxygen .
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Which is great....for what's left of them. Alas they are not actually the sole generators of oxygen - ocean phytoplankton generate just as much as all eth plants on land put together - and they are way down.

Do we know what the Oxygen level is compared to the co2 ? has Oxygen increased as well ?
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No - it is decreasing.

Its a hoax because its not getting warmer
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Except, of course, in the real world.
 
Joe said:
Ok your pulling a Jay Reynolds on me now . :)
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I would be trying to get you to flesh out your claim for specifics, don't be a wishy washy lukewarm waffler.

If you believe something, put it on the table, don't hide your light under a basket. If you aren't sure what you believe, better not act like you are.
 
Ross Marsden said:
Joe; Let's get this straight...

You think that commercial aircraft are engaged in a geoengineering scheme which consists of intentionally making persistent contrails.
You think that they are intentionally flying in contrail forming conditions, and seeking out the ice-supersaturated regions so that the contrails they make will persist.

Is that what you are saying? The airlines are flight-planning all this? And the cockpit crews go out and fly the planned route to make persistent contrails?
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No I never said they are flying out of their flight plan or that pilots were aware they were doing anything other then flying from one destination to another .
 
Jay Reynolds said:
I would be trying to get you to flesh out your claim for specifics, don't be a wishy washy lukewarm waffler.

If you believe something, put it on the table, don't hide your light under a basket. If you aren't sure what you believe, better not act like you are.
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Is called my Opinion which is something I am still allowed to have . Aren't I Jay ?
 
An opinion is your personal subjective experience - 'That sunset is pretty' or 'That sunset is scary'. It's not a claim about actual objective reality that we all share and can experience.
Your views in this are not opinion, they are claims that can be proved true or false. An opinion cannot be.
 
Joe said:
No I never said they are flying out of their flight plan or that pilots were aware they were doing anything other then flying from one destination to another .
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So what do you mean by, "Yes I believe persistent contrails are a geoengineering scheme ."

Describe the "scheme".
A commercial flight is scheduled to fly "from one destination to another". Then what?
 
ross marsden said:
so what do you mean by, "yes i believe persistent contrails are a geoengineering scheme ."

describe the "scheme".
A commercial flight is scheduled to fly "from one destination to another". Then what?
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i think they pretty much have it covered flight-route-airspace-chaos.png
 
Joe said:
Who ever said I live in the real world ? :)
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I certainly never said you did. Prove it hasn't been getting warmer. Also, prove to me that persistent contrails have a net cooling effect. I had this argument countless times with Woody and I'd be happy to do the same with you.
 
plane852 said:
I certainly never said you did. Prove it hasn't been getting warmer. Also, prove to me that persistent contrails have a net cooling effect. I had this argument countless times with Woody and I'd be happy to do the same with you.
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Why should I prove anything to you or anyone else ? We have our opinions you have yours . Only time will tell was it a conspiracy or was it fact . Unlike most conspiracies which are in the past . This ones is current and evolving as are the schemes to stop the so called climate disaster hoax .
 
Joe said:
Why should I prove anything to you or anyone else ? We have our opinions you have yours . Only time will tell was it a conspiracy or was it fact . Unlike most conspiracies which are in the past . This ones is current and evolving as are the schemes to stop the so called climate disaster hoax .
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Just trying to pin down your beliefs . . .

1) You believe persistent contrails (are chemtrails?) in some way are part of a geoengineering scheme
2) You however believe global warming is a Hoax to extort money
3) You believe persistent trails have a cooling effect on the global environment
4) What else am I missing?
 
Joe said:
I thought I answered that . Yes I believe persistent contrails are a geoengineering scheme . may 28-2013 grey skies 001.JPG
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Why do you think contrails caused or even contributed to that thick cirrostratus deck?

Here's the visible satellite image from yesterday afternoon:

S_Florida_vis.gif
Up here in Volusia county we had the blue-est skies and puffy diurnal cumulus. High cirrus ripping off of distant convection was being advected across southern Florida. It made its way up here around sunset. We had a beautiful sunset.
 
Jay Reynolds said:
Joe, that is a "small world" viewpoint. Consider that ice supersaturation only covers 15% of these flight tracks and the coverage isn't very good at all, is it?
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Indeed. Yesterday I reckon that Joe thought the powers that be were really going all out to chemshade the planet. Or maybe "they" were targeting mostly him? Either way, even just looking at the southeast yesterday we see that coverage of cirrus clouds wasn't all that spectacular much less contrail cirrus.

southeast_vis.gif
 
scombrid said:
Why do you think contrails caused or even contributed to that thick cirrostratus deck?

Here's the visible satellite image from yesterday afternoon:

S_Florida_vis.gif
Up here in Volusia county we had the blue-est skies and puffy diurnal cumulus. High cirrus ripping off of distant convection was being advected across southern Florida. It made its way up here around sunset. We had a beautiful sunset.
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yes I saw that and there were plenty of contrails adding to the haze . quite obvious off shore as well . The last three days were pretty heavy with trails .
 
Look at the regional image. The cirrus clouds are streaming over Florida from far away. Of course a plane flying though them will add a trail. But air traffic didn't create those clouds. Those cloud types existed well over 2.5 years ago.
 
So the hoaxers are deliberately *cooling* the planet.
Wouldn't they try to warm it to push their 'hoax'?
And it's not just an 'opinion', you're making statements about reality that are either true or bullshit.
 
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