Editorial in the New York Times discusses Geoengineering

JFDee

Senior Member.
Clive Hamilton points at the social and ethical aspects of geoengineering proposals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...r-a-false-promise.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all

Excerpt (from the conclusion):
 
J

Joe

Guest
? Seemed they already started ?
Chemtrail nutters :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
Clive Hamilton points at the social and ethical aspects of geoengineering proposals.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/o...r-a-false-promise.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all

Excerpt (from the conclusion):

On Monday, May 27, 2013 12:26:05 PM UTC-4, Alan Robock wrote:
Dear all,

I agree with virtually everything in Clive's op-ed in the New York Times today. That is because I wrote it several years ago, first in my 20 reasons why geoengineering might be a bad idea, and then in several articles since then. But he gives no indication that these are not his original ideas.

You can see all my papers at http://climate.envsci.rutgers. edu/robock/robock_geopapers. html

Here is the op-ed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/ 05/27/opinion/geoengineering- our-last-hope-or-a-false- promise.html?hp&pagewanted= print
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
? Seemed they already started ?
Chemtrail nutters :)
Why do you say they have already started?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Looks like the chemheads have successfully conflated geoengineering with chemtrails by simply changing the name.

I guess we can all sleep well knowing we are now not being sprayed to make us sick or to make us sterile? They've finally lasered in on a cause?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Looks like the chemheads have successfully conflated geoengineering with chemtrails by simply changing the name.

I guess we can all sleep well knowing we are now not being sprayed to make us sick or to make us sterile? They've finally lasered in on a cause?
that funny because Iv been saying that from the beginning ? 2 1/2 years ago .
 

HappyMonday

Moderator
Can anybody tell me why the term 'Orwellian' is used here? I can't see it myself.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
What's that in the sky over Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969? Is that geoengineering solar radiation management way back then? What would happen to the exhaust of any aircraft flying through that "mystery stuff" that is blotting out the blue sky?

July_16_1969.jpg
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Can anybody tell me why the term 'Orwellian' is used here? I can't see it myself.

The suggestion is that it's a deliberate phrase chosen to minimize just how crazy and dangerous the idea is.

http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/511016/a-cheap-and-easy-plan-to-stop-global-warming/

 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I sure do . Thats the only thing I believe as far as Persistent contrails are concerned .

If you believe that persistent contrails are a form of geoengineering . . . how do you think they (contrails) accomplish the reduction of global warming, basically reducing surface temperatures and cooling of the Troposphere, etc. . . .?
 
J

Joe

Guest
If you believe that persistent contrails are a form of geoengineering . . . how do you think they (contrails) accomplish the reduction of global warming, basically reducing surface temperatures and cooling of the Troposphere, etc. . . .?
Same reason its cooler in my screened in enclosure ? also harder to tan ? reflect sunlight back into space .
 
J

Joe

Guest
What's that in the sky over Apollo 11 on July 16, 1969? Is that geoengineering solar radiation management way back then? What would happen to the exhaust of any aircraft flying through that "mystery stuff" that is blotting out the blue sky?

July_16_1969.jpg
looks quite different from what Im seeing in the sky
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Same reason its cooler in my screened in enclosure ? also harder to tan ? reflect sunlight back into space .
Hmmmm . . . at one time I thought that as well . . . however, the science indicates persistent contrails seem to have a net warming effect . . . they tend to reflect more long wave radiation back to the surface than reflect shortwave radiation back into space . . . so persistent contrails from commercial aircraft add to global warming not decrease it . . .
 
J

Joe

Guest
thats not what I heard with the 9/11 study. or what the bbc said in their contrail cirrus
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
1963. I can't count the number of times I've seen chemtrial believers declare that cirrostratus such as those in this 50 year-old photograph are unnatural and caused entirely by chemtrails/geoengineering. Does it never occur to the believers that when you fly a plane in or near that layer of air that the water in the exhaust is going to condense and freeze and become part of the cloud?

whitesandsmissilerange_1963.jpg
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
thats not what I heard with the 9/11 study. or what the bbc said in their contrail cirrus

Atmospheric dynamics are very complicated but I feel confident contrails are considered by most scientists to have a net warming effect . . .

 
J

Joe

Guest
Atmospheric dynamics are very complicated but I feel confident contrails are considered by most scientists to have a net warming effect . . .

Contrails can spread into cirrus clouds that reduce sunlight during the day, thus causing a cooling effect. But contrails also trap heat during both the day and the night. It is not yet certain if the net result of these effects warms or cools the Earth, but most studies indicate that contrails have a net warming effect on our planet.
but after millions of dollars we are still clueless ? give us more taxpayer money and some day we will figure it out maybe ?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
but after millions of dollars we are still clueless ? give us more taxpayer money and some day we will figure it out maybe ?

So do you believe Persistent Contrails are a geoengineering scheme?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
But... you also believe global warming is a hoax. So it's a hoax, that the hoaxers themselves think is real? How do you manage to hold so many contradictory beliefs and not even question yourself?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I thought I answered that . Yes I believe persistent contrails are a geoengineering scheme .
Ok . . . how is it being accomplish in your opinion . . . who is calling the shots and how are they doing it . . . ?
 
J

Joe

Guest
But... you also believe global warming is a hoax. So it's a hoax, that the hoaxers themselves think is real? How do you manage to hold so many contradictory beliefs and not even question yourself?
Man Made Global warming is a Conspiracy to redistribute wealth via carbon taxes while the ones in power skim off the top and leave the crumbs to the poor . Carbon dioxide level are the highest in millions of years [FONT=georgia, times new roman, times, serif]400 parts per million . It has nothing to do with deforestation or 8 billion people on the planet . The most amount of people ever in the history of the world . or the livestock to feed those people . all exhaling CO2
[/FONT]
 
J

Joe

Guest
Ok . . . how is it being accomplish in your opinion . . . who is calling the shots and how are they doing it . . . ?
how is it being accomplish in your opinion
I think I answered that ? Who calling the shots ? I haven't a clue since I really don't know who is calling the Shots in DC ? Build a Burgers ? :) hey thats a good Idea for a Burger Joint ?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I think I answered that ? Who calling the shots ? I haven't a clue since I really don't know who is calling the Shots in DC ? Build a Burgers ? :) hey thats a good Idea for a Burger Joint ?
Point me to where you answered how it is behind accomplished . . . :)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Same reason its cooler in my screened in enclosure ? also harder to tan ? reflect sunlight back into space .

Harder to tan? You can burn pretty badly on a hazy day at the ocean. You should know that, being from the island. :)
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
But... you also believe global warming is a hoax. So it's a hoax, that the hoaxers themselves think is real? How do you manage to hold so many contradictory beliefs and not even question yourself?

Sorry, saying 'so many' is speculation on my part - I have no idea if you hold more than one contradictory belief.

But I am confused - man-made warming is a hoax, but the high c02 levels are due to mankind's collective out-breath? Wouldn't that make it man-made?
You do know that vegetation uptakes co2 right?
Do fossil fuel-based engines emit co2 or not? Does the number of engines increase with the population?

What is the uptake of c02 by vegetation, compared to the output of engines plus everything on earth breathing out?
(Someone will have done the maths, if it's doable.)
 
J

Joe

Guest
And who is the wealth being re-distributed to? You think it's a trick to take money from the rich?
No they taking it from the rich countries { Western ones }and sending it to the poorer ones affected by weather or sea level rise but really they want it to fund the One World Government . IMO :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
Sorry, saying 'so many' is speculation on my part - I have no idea if you hold more than one contradictory belief.

But I am confused - man-made warming is a hoax, but the high c02 levels are due to mankind's collective out-breath? Wouldn't that make it man-made?
You do know that vegetation uptakes co2 right?
Do fossil fuel-based engines emit co2 or not? Does the number of engines increase with the population?

What is the uptake of c02 by vegetation, compared to the output of engines plus everything on earth breathing out?
(Someone will have done the maths, if it's doable.)
Im just saying there is nothing wrong with increased Co2 . It gets warmer we have more land not less . The trees are happy the plants are happy and put out more oxygen . Do we know what the Oxygen level is compared to the co2 ? has Oxygen increased as well ? Its a hoax because its not getting warmer
 
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