Morgellons disease may be caused by ticks?

[deirdre]

Article:

Spirochetes: The Underlying Cause of Morgellons Disease

Contrary to popular medical sites and even the CDC, the Charles E. Holman Morgellons Disease Foundation has found scientific evidence that supports the existence of Morgellons disease:

• Reproducible findings of bacterial infection
• Evidence of tick-born transmission
• Proof embedded filaments are biological—not synthetic or from textiles
• Case studies in favor of antibiotic treatment

....
In several studies, Borrelia burgdorferi spirochetes, a species of bacteria, have been found living in samples taken from skin, cerebrospinal fluid, and vaginal excretions of Morgellons patients.
...

Spread of Infection
Supporting research suggests that a bacterial infection spread by ticks may cause Morgellons disease.

Source: https://thecehf.org/is-morgellons-disease-real/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-qi_BhBxEiwAkxvbkLCdt17l-ne0cWyvkXQVVUWp5xS6PnxvV5NswbTlRADVJaURKT08rxoCBJgQAvD_BwE

the linked "evidence of tick born transmission" is only 30 patients. https://www.dovepress.com/articles.php?article_id=42182


Roughly half of the 30 in this one study are from Canada, but in the u.s

Article:

Lyme disease is the most common vector-borne disease in the U.S., with an estimated 476,000 people diagnosed and treated each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Source: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-lyme-disease#

so i'm kinda curious and need math help...what are the chances 19 out of 30 people of any random set would test positive for tick bites?

 

[SuppaCoup]

Patient Zero of this alleged illness, Mary Leitao's son, would now be about 26 years old, I'd be very interested to hear from him about his experiences growing up in the midst of his mother's efforts to get this alleged illness taken seriously.
I will say this-this whole "the filaments are all put in place or incidental and are artificial" thing could be pretty easily falsified if time-lapse video of one of the suffers laying still as filaments grow out of a sore was made.

 

[JMartJr]

I don't know how testing positive for tick bites correlates to "ever having been bitten by a tick," but if you were a kid growing up in the small-town-to-rural-fields setting I grew up in, the chances of EVER having been bit by a tick approaches 100%!

 

[JMartJr]

I will say this-this whole "the filaments are all put in place or incidental and are artificial" thing could be pretty easily falsified if time-lapse video of one of the suffers laying still as filaments grow out of a sore was made.

I'd have agreed a few years ago -- there are too many ways to fake a video, available to pretty much everybody, for me to be able to agree at this point.

 

[SuppaCoup]

I'd have agreed a few years ago -- there are too many ways to fake a video, available to pretty much everybody, for me to be able to agree at this point.

There's straightforward ways to do an experiment like this that would be beyond reproach-having the filming handled entirely by a skeptic organization and done completely transparently would be enough for me.

 

[Mick West]

This isn't really a new theory, Morgellons was essentially an offshoot of the chronic Lyme community over 20 years ago. One of the main Morgellons discussion boards was called LymeBusters.

One of the authors of the paper, Stricker, ran a clinic that seemed to largely center around diagnosing Lyme in people, and then treating them with extensive courses of antibiotics. Here I wrote about their associating Morgellons with Lyme, back when I was a bit less polite.

Article:

It is unfortunate that this paper will be taken seriously when it really boils down to "We don't know what these people have, but we think that large quantities of antibiotics help some, and doctors should be more open minded." The publication of this paper will only perpetuate the misunderstandings regarding Morgellons and further drive vulnerable patients into the clutches of quacks and charlatans.

Source: https://morgellonswatch.com/2007/10/

 

[Mick West]

Patient Zero of this alleged illness, Mary Leitao's son, would now be about 26 years old, I'd be very interested to hear from him about his experiences growing up in the midst of his mother's efforts to get this alleged illness taken seriously.

Back in 2007 the Morgellons Research Foundation distanced itself from Leitao's son. He never really fit with the other believers, but it was his mother's energy that got the whole movement in the eyes of the press.

Article:

Why is this? Why start to downplay the "Patient Zero", the first person identified as having "Morgellons", someone who is mentioned in practically every media story on Morgellons? I suspect the reason is that he simply does not fit with Harvey's new theory. Harvey is getting ready to publish some speculation based on specious statistical analysis and some isolated observations, and "Patient Zero" simply does not fit into his new theory, so he's getting rid of him.

Source: https://morgellonswatch.com/2007/10/

 

[deirdre]

Here I wrote about their associating Morgellons with Lyme,

so the 'debunk' or analysis of a paper written 11 years later is "its unfortunate this paper is taken seriously?"

ps..were our article tags backgrounds always in white? i thought they used to have blue backgrounds that made the comments easier to read.

 

[deirdre]

I don't know how testing positive for tick bites correlates to "ever having been bitten by a tick," but if you were a kid growing up in the small-town-to-rural-fields setting I grew up in, the chances of EVER having been bit by a tick approaches 100%!

yea the length of time such tests would show a positive is a bit unknown too. i havent looked up yet (kinda hoping someone else will do it for me) if a modern "lyme test" is the same as the tests in that study.

for modern lyme tests, cdc says

Article:

Once your blood tests positive for antibodies, it will likely continue to do so for months to years, even when the bacteria are no longer present.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/lyme/diagnosis-testing/index.html

 

[deirdre]

I don't know how testing positive for tick bites correlates to "ever having been bitten by a tick," but if you were a kid growing up in the small-town-to-rural-fields setting I grew up in, the chances of EVER having been bit by a tick approaches 100%!

i grew up not all that far from Lyme but i was tested 5 times by 3 different doctors, about 15 years ago* for lymes and all tests came back negative.

*i was having leg muscle issues but not pain or joint pain really (maybe a tad in my knees after exercise), so not 100% sure why they kept testing me for that. i know i ve pulled normal ticks off me in my 20s and teens (super gross) , but not sure if i ever had a deer tick. <edit no i did once pull a deer tick because i remember watching for the ring..but that was like 20 years before the tests i and i didnt get a ring. he wasnt puffy or anything so likely wasnt on me that long.

 

[SuppaCoup]

I am 95% sure I've found Patient Zero's linkedin account, I would feel very weird about cold contacting him about all of this when it seems as if he has moved entirely on from it and has a successful career.

 

[NorCal Dave]

This isn't really a new theory, Morgellons was essentially an offshoot of the chronic Lyme community over 20 years ago. One of the main Morgellons discussion boards was called LymeBusters.

Interesting. I'd never heard much about Morgellons, except in your book about the founding of Metabunk. However, I've definitely delt with some "chronic lyme disease" folks going back to the late '90s and into a few years ago. I guess it fits with Morgellons, but even more amorphas.

 

[NoParty]

This isn't really a new theory, Morgellons was essentially an offshoot of the chronic Lyme community over 20 years ago. One of the main Morgellons discussion boards was called LymeBusters.

One of the authors of the paper, Stricker, ran a clinic that seemed to largely center around diagnosing Lyme in people, and then treating them with extensive courses of antibiotics. Here I wrote about their associating Morgellons with Lyme, back when I was a bit less polite.

Article:

It is unfortunate that this paper will be taken seriously when it really boils down to "We don't know what these people have, but we think that large quantities of antibiotics help some, and doctors should be more open minded." The publication of this paper will only perpetuate the misunderstandings regarding Morgellons and further drive vulnerable patients into the clutches of quacks and charlatans.

Source: https://morgellonswatch.com/2007/10/

I remember Morgellons Watch!
(and you were still more polite than most folks would've been).
Reboots are in fashion these days "Michael in Los Angeles,"
but I'm guessing you'd prefer to just move on (and, also, not give it any oxygen)...

 

[JMartJr]

i grew up not all that far from Lyme but i was tested 5 times by 3 different doctors, about 15 years ago* for lymes and all tests came back negative.

In case I was unclear, I was referring to a test fir tick bites, I've never heard of such a thing, but it would be distinct from a test for Lyme's, since not all ticks carry/transmit the disease -- there are multiple sorts of ticks. Several of which have latched onto me over the years.

 

[Mendel]

samples taken from skin, cerebrospinal fluid, and vaginal excretions

that's an eclectic selection

 

[Morgellons]

I have Morgellons. Bullseye rash on the back of my leg around 2010.

The tissue changes in Morgellons patients have been demonstrated:
"Protruding keratin projections were observed on the concave, underside surface of calluses. Some of these were sharp at the tips of the projection, while others were blunt or ballooned (Figure 1D). Clear, ingrown hairs or hairlike structures, approximately 60 μm in diameter, were observed protruding from the tips of some keratin projections. Patient 1 presented dermatological tissue with attached white filaments. In contrast, patient 4 had only small lesions without significant callus formation and presented a single chunk of dermatological tissue approximately 1 mm in diameter embedded with filaments rather than calluses.

BDD biopsies

BDD biopsies demonstrated chronic, late-stage, off-white, or grey filamentous projections on the external surface. In some samples, ingrowth of keratin on the interior surface was apparent.

Histologic staining for keratin and collagen

MD filaments

Almost all the filaments from patients 1–4 that were cut longitudinally, obliquely, and in cross-section demonstrated a hollow medulla and surrounding cortex. The filaments were round, elliptical/elongated, bean-like, or curved. This morphology was consistently visible in histological sections (Figure 2A)." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3544355/

A recent review from China details how to distinguish Morgellons from delusional infestation:
"The first step needs to determine whether delusion exists or not. A delusion is defined as a firmly, but false belief held with strong conviction and contrary to the superior evidence. It is distinct from beliefs based on an unusual perception, such as formication. The beliefs that patients hold could be delusion, true observations, or overvalued ideas. This must be determined on a case-by-case basis. The presentation of a specimen is not a delusional behavior. Patients with DI/MD with animate or inanimate objects can exist, but the belief of cutaneous fibers may or may not be delusional. A physician is required to perform fiber analysis to identify the nature of fibers. If fibers are present and biofilaments of human origin, then they are a true observation. It is also possible that patients might observe fibers and mistake them for worms in which case the idea of infestation could be an overvalued idea. Real infestation with arthropods such as mites can also occur. Additionally, some patients could have lesions with adhering textile fibers that are accidental contaminants and could mistakenly believe that they have MD, in which case they do not have a delusional belief, but a mistaken belief. In summary, if a physician cannot differentiate between true observations, delusions, and overvalued ideas, they should not immediately make a diagnosis of delusional mental illness.

The next procedure would be screening the causes of the symptoms. If a delusional belief is present, then various medical conditions need to be ruled out, including psychiatric disorders (eg, schizophrenia and depression), neurological illnesses (eg, dementia), metabolic illnesses (eg, diabetes), vitamin deficiencies, substance intoxication, tumor, dermatological illnesses (eg, pruritus senilis), and infection. History taking, physical examination, laboratory tests, and even skin biopsy should be carried out. The diagnosis of DI could be classified as primary and secondary. If there are cutaneous fibers present and the belief is not delusional, the underlying cause of the symptoms, such as potential infection, should be examined. A diagnosis of MD is more convincing when spirochetal infection is identified. If a patient has delusional beliefs and has cutaneous fibers, then testing of an underlying infection that can result in neuropathy is needed." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6171510/

Morgellons may be associated with syphilis, though direct evidence from a group of Morgellons patients did not corroborate that hypothesis:
"Sixteen subjects were selected who met the case description for MD as determined by a healthcare professional and who had suitable dermatological specimens for study. PCR and serological evidence of exposure to or infection with Borrelia and other co-involved pathogens is summarized in Table 1. All patients in our study had evidence of infection and/or exposure to Borrelia. Eight patients had serologic evidence of infection and/or exposure to Bb, and two patients had serologic evidence of infection and/or exposure to RFB. Twelve patients had detectable Bbsl DNA and six patients had detectable RFB DNA in clinical specimens. Nine patients had evidence of infection and/or exposure to co-involved pathogens as follows: Hp (9), Bartonella henselae (5), Babesia spp. (2), T. denticola (2), Ehrlichia chaffeensis (1), Anaplasma phagocytophilum (1), Chlamydia pneumonia (1), Toxoplasma spp. (1), and Mycoplasma spp. (1). Of the subjects in our study, 14/16 were tested by PCR technology for the presence of T. denticola and T. pallidum DNA. All were negative for T. pallidum, and 2/14 were positive for T. denticola DNA, but T. denticola was not found independently of Borrelia DNA." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7012249/

Morgellons patients exhibit mixed bacterial biofilms in their skin:
"In this study, Bb/Hp dual infection was detected in MD skin sections using tissue culture, PCR technology, IHC staining, FISH testing and confocal microscopy. The PCR data from this study revealed that callus material from 14 MD subjects tested positive for at least one sequence from either Bb or Hp, and eight subjects tested positive for at least one sequence from both bacteria. This finding verified that Bb and Hp are pathogens that can be present in MD skin sections. Given the fact that both Bb and Hp infections can cause illness in humans, including dermopathy, the presence of Bb and Hp in skin demonstrating MD pathology strongly suggests that these organisms could jointly contribute to MD evolution. IHC staining and FISH testing for Bb/Hp overlapped on consecutive sections, revealing that these pathogenic organisms co-localize in aggregates consistent with biofilms." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6627092/

 

[deirdre]

In case I was unclear, I was referring to a test fir tick bites, I've never heard of such a thing, but it would be distinct from a test for Lyme's, since not all ticks carry/transmit the disease -- there are multiple sorts of ticks. Several of which have latched onto me over the years.

oh sorry. i cant edit the OP. i assumed Borrelia burgdorferi spirochetes was just a lymes thing. ill have to research that a bit more.

"Sixteen subjects were selected who met the case description for MD as determined by a healthcare professional and who had suitable dermatological specimens for study. PCR and serological evidence of exposure to or infection with Borrelia and other co-involved pathogens is summarized in Table 1. All patients in our study had evidence of infection and/or exposure to Borrelia. Eight patients had serologic evidence of infection and/or exposure to Bb, and two patients had serologic evidence of infection and/or exposure to RFB. Twelve patients had detectable Bbsl DNA and six patients had detectable RFB DNA in clinical specimens. Nine patients had evidence of infection and/or exposure to co-involved pathogens as follows: Hp (9), Bartonella henselae (5), Babesia spp. (2), T. denticola (2), Ehrlichia chaffeensis (1), Anaplasma phagocytophilum (1), Chlamydia pneumonia (1), Toxoplasma spp. (1), and Mycoplasma spp. (1). Of the subjects in our study, 14/16 were tested by PCR technology for the presence of T. denticola and T. pallidum DNA. All were negative for T. pallidum, and 2/14 were positive for T. denticola DNA, but T. denticola was not found independently of Borrelia DNA." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7012249/

thanks for the study link. not sure why you headlined it with a syphilis connection...but 16 our of 16 for Borrelia (lyme's) is interesting.

 

[Morgellons]

Syphilis and Lyme disease have both been demonstrated to exhibit similar antibiotic resistant qualities. "Penicillin solution is one unfavorable condition that induces RBs. This antibiotic that inhibits bacterial cell wall synthesis cures neither the second "Great Imitator" (Lyme borreliosis) nor the first: syphilis." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2774030/

In The History of Morgellons review, the comparison between historical accounts of syphilis closely align with modern day accounts of Morgellons: "From 1902 to 1938, case studies describing "parasitophobias" or "dermatological hypochondriasis" that resulted in delusional interpretation of skin sensations were published sporadically.12​–​20​ However, as early as 1935, an association between spirochetal infection and DOP was documented by the French physician Vié, who reported that six of eight of the subjects in his case studies had syphilis.18​ In 1938, a pivotal narrative of DOP was published by Ekbom, a series of case studies describing patients who had sensations of movement and the belief that insects were crawling on or under skin. Ekbom felt that determining the underlying cause of the formication was important, stating that "it is the underlying illness that determines the overall presentation of the beliefs" and "it is perhaps too simple that the parasitophobias should be considered as mental illness and nothing more".20​ Interestingly, like Vié, Ekbom found that spirochetal infection was present in his patient cohort, and three of Ekbom's seven patients had documented cases of syphilis. Despite the fact that syphilis was considered rare in Sweden, Ekbom did not believe that spirochetal infection was a contributing factor.20​" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5811176/

It's also helpful to know that despite having a bullseye rash, between being tested for Lyme, syphilis and TBRF, it was only the latter which I tested positive for on a serologic screen. "Sera from 30 patients with MD were tested for antibody reactivity to antigens from the Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) group and the relapsing fever Borrelia (RFB) group of spirochetes. Tissue and/or body fluid specimens from these patients were also tested for the presence of Bb and RFB infection using PCR technology. In addition, tissue and body fluid specimens were tested for the presence of Bartonella henselae using PCR, and formalin-fixed skin sections from a subset of patients were tested using fluorescent in situ hybridization (FISH) with B. henselae-specific DNA probes." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6233863/

 

[deirdre]

In The History of Morgellons review, the comparison between historical accounts of syphilis closely align with modern day accounts of Morgellons:

the thread topic is ticks and Borrelia burgdorferi spirochetes. and it still doesnt explain your chosen syphilis opener when your own quote said all tested negative.

TBRF, it was only the latter which I tested positive for on a serologic screen

ok that is helpful and interesting (once i looked up what that is). so soft ticks do count. (if borrelia hermsii is the same thing as borrelia burgdorferi or RFB? ) thank you for clarifying that for me!

Article:

What is tick-borne relapsing fever (TBRF)?
TBRF is an illness caused by bacteria called Borrelia hermsii that are carried by soft ticks. About 1–8 cases of TBRF are reported in California each year.

Source: https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DCDC/pages/tbrf.aspx

 

[Morgellons]

No, thank you for allowing me to talk rationally about my skin condition on Metabunk. This is like, Christmas... or something.

Morgellons, for patients who have it and don't mistakenly believe they have it, presents much like classical accounts of syphilis. Skin lesions, psychosis, fatigue, muscle aches...

A small portion of researchers believe that syphilis can be a catalyst for a person who is genetically prone to develop Morgellons. "Although we have not detected T. pallidum in any MD subjects to date, given that there is a historical association with T. pallidum infection in comparable cases, it is reasonable to hypothesize that T. pallidum could be an etiologic factor in a subset of MD patients." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7012249/

"Preliminary genetic studies have demonstrated nine genes with significant sequence variation in MD patients (E Sapi, University of New Haven, unpublished observation, 2017). Examination of genetic factors that contribute to MD is currently in progress." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5811176/

 

[NoParty]

I have Morgellons.

I won't lie: I've always found the large, consistent studies on the topic, pretty conclusive...
that we're usually just looking at cotton fibers. But you seem earnest, and I appreciate you
sharing your experience/view.

...thank you for allowing me to talk rationally about my skin condition on Metabunk. This is like, Christmas... or something.

Merry Christmas!! We haven't talked about Morgellons a lot on MB recently, but I'm guessing that most posters here have thoughts pretty similar to mine.
Folks here tend to be a "Show me" crowd.
That said, many of us (including me) have never really interacted with someone who believed they had it...so I'm glad you popped by, and hope you don't mind a little healthy skepticism...

 

[Morgellons]

Thank you, kindly and sincerely. I welcome healthy skepticism, and would like to share my most recent interview (of 2) with Dr. Steven Feldman - the skeptical Dermatologist featured in the movie Skin Deep: The Battle Over Morgellons. Dr. Feldman and I enjoy a respectable discourse on the topic of Morgellons, and he raises some valid points concerning the contested dermopathy.

We discuss testing for TBRF at the 50:06 mark and the impact of long-term antibiotics at 52:31

Steven R. Feldman, MD, PhD https://www.wakehealth.edu/providers/f/steven-r-feldman?address_id=34689

Quality of Life and Morgellons, Treatment Considerations with Dr. Steven Feldman
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHT5InHuGQ

 

[NoParty]

Thank you, kindly and sincerely. I welcome healthy skepticism, and would like to share my most recent interview (of 2) with Dr. Steven Feldman - the skeptical Dermatologist featured in the movie Skin Deep: The Battle Over Morgellons. Dr. Feldman and I enjoy a respectable discourse on the topic of Morgellons, and he raises some valid points concerning the contested dermopathy.

We discuss testing for TBRF at the 50:06 mark and the impact of long-term antibiotics at 52:31

Steven R. Feldman, MD, PhD https://www.wakehealth.edu/providers/f/steven-r-feldman?address_id=34689

Quality of Life and Morgellons, Treatment Considerations with Dr. Steven Feldman
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFHT5InHuGQ

Well, I never thought I'd be saying this, but (because my truck is being serviced and I'm kind of
stuck in my office today, and it's included in Amazon Prime) I actually watched all 90 minutes
of Skin Deep: The Battle Over Morgellons. Dr. Steven Feldman was, IMHO the best part of it.
A nice, thoughtful, polite dermatologist who is very skeptical of people diagnosing themselves
with Morgellons, before, during, and after the film (He doesn't have an arc!)
Would Metabunkers like the film?
Well, it clearly has an agenda, & suffers from too many looong anecdotes, & not enough science. That said, most of the people are likable folks, just really frustrated.
While the anecdote time probably outnumbers the skeptical side by about 80% to 20%,
that 20% pulls few punches, and the pro-science side gets fairly well aired.
My main beef was that it seemed that some sufferers were overly harsh towards the medical
community, getting very angry at doctors for, essentially, not agreeing with them.

 

[Morgellons]

My main beef was that it seemed that some sufferers were overly harsh towards the medical
community, getting very angry at doctors for, essentially, not agreeing with them.

I agree with this, especially. It doesn't do actual Morgellons patients any favors by berating the people willing to help us.

Additionally, I would urge you to watch Dr. Feldman's entire presentation at the annual Morgellons conference for full context. The Q&A session begins at the 41:00 minute mark, doctors attending the Morgellons conference are defending Dr. Feldman.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsiS2hxOW2k

 

[deirdre]

My main beef was that it seemed that some sufferers were overly harsh towards the medical
community, getting very angry at doctors for, essentially, not agreeing with them.

to be fair when i had my issue that got me the 5 lyme tests, it was super frustrating. because if it is real (or if you think it is real would be the same) and you are scared and the doctors arent hearing you ..its frustrating. in my case i did finally go to a sports doctor who didnt talk to me like i was crazy (because he'd seen it before with athletes he trusted) and just explained that they have no idea why it happens but do this and this and give it time. and mine did go away with this and this and time. Morgellons folk dont seem to get that final relief. so having been through something rather concerning, i can relate to their frustrations (whether real or imagined).

add: im adding since the crazy bit was a bit harsh, when my muscle issue first happened i did have a crazy high white count so they ordered cat scans to check MS lesions and a spinal tap/lumbar puncture to check Guillain barre etc. so no doctor thought i was 'totally' crazy.

 

[Morgellons]

Morgellons folk dont seem to get that final relief.

You're right, in my experience most people who believe they have Morgellons reject the association with Lyme disease and so are forever searching for the answer.

For me, I got that relief. I found a doctor, she understands TBRF and Lyme disease, and with her guidance (and antibiotics) I got my life back. I still get a small amount of lesions, no itching involved, my mind is working better now than ever.

I'm sorry you had go through that.

 

[deirdre]

I'm sorry you had go through that.

thanks. you too.

But mine was an 8 month blip in life (although my immune system is still a bit whacky.. but NOTHING at all like so many people have to go through and deal with.). I'm not really sorry now that i went through it, i learned alot in the process and we always think we are empathetic about situations until you actually go through something similar and realize how much you never realized.

 

[FatPhil]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6627092/

Stricker? *That* Stricker? The name rang a bell from some CoViD-19 collaborations he participated in, regarding the drug(s) that shall not be named, such as:

Role of hydroxychloroquine in multidrug treatment of COVID-19
Peter A. McCullough1,*, Raphael B. Stricker2, Harvey A. Risch3

-- https://www.imrpress.com/journal/RCM/22/3/10.31083/j.rcm2203063
PDF: https://www.imrpress.com/journal/RCM/22/3/10.31083/j.rcm2203063/pdf
(which I suspect is mostly a McCullough vanity piece, just another of his self-citing pieces, but, still, like attracts like.)

Anyway, this Morgellons association got me wondering if he's dabbled with science, or quackery, in even wider fields. Within seconds a ``retraction stricker'' search shows chinks in his armour decades back:
"Retraction: Stricker RB, Abrams DI, Corash L, Shuman MA. Target platelet antigen in homosexual men with immune thrombocytopenia. N Engl J Med 1985; 313:1375-80." ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199111213252106 ), summarised in the popular press by "In their retraction, Dr. Hittelman and Dr. Stricker's three co-authors said Dr. Stricker had withheld data showing that "some" members of the healthy comparison group also had the antibodies." ( www.nytimes.com/1991/11/21/us/results-of-aids-experiment-are-retracted-after-inquiry.html )

 

[Morgellons]

Stricker? *That* Stricker?

This has been my biggest issue wanting to participate here on Metabunk. Whenever this topic comes up, about my disfiguring skin condition, people historically have attacked the authors without addressing the evidence. Yes, Stricker was disciplined. Yes, he jumped on the wrong Covid treatment bandwagon - but he's not a lone author, nor did he contribute solely to the research.

Middelveen also. Historically, any research she's authored is dismissed and marginalized as people wrongly attribute her as a veterinarian. Marianne Middelveen is a microbiologist, she literally accomplished work at our CDC.

I'm enjoying the new tone of this conversation, but feel that negating the evidence as it stands based on misinformation and prior incidents is not scientific. The sores I get still hurt, they feel like splinters drilling into my skin. I had this condition years before I even heard the term "Morgellons".

The pain from my condition is only second to the publics dismissal of its validity.

 

[SuppaCoup]

@Morgellons , earlier in the thread I said this:

I will say this-this whole "the filaments are all put in place or incidental and are artificial" thing could be pretty easily falsified if time-lapse video of one of the suffers laying still as filaments grow out of a sore was made.

As as someone who has skin issues they believe to be Morgellons, do you think this experiment might be capable of confirming that Morgellon threads are authentically growing out of the body if arranged and executed correctly?

 

[Morgellons]

My earlier comment was removed by Mick West, I've asked for clarification of how I could have shared the information in a compliant manner and am expecting a reply soon.

Regarding your question directly, the research examined biopsies and demonstrated the fibers originate inside the same tissues they are located in.

I think the idea of strapping a camera on a Morgellons patient to watch the fibers grow could be interesting, sure why not.

 

[yoshy]

Here I wrote about their associating Morgellons with Lyme, back when I was a bit less polite.

Your "bit less polite" is still like 99% polite

 

[yoshy]

My earlier comment was removed by Mick West, I've asked for clarification of how I could have shared the information in a compliant manner and am expecting a reply soon.

Regarding your question directly, the research examined biopsies and demonstrated the fibers originate inside the same tissues they are located in.

I think the idea of strapping a camera on a Morgellons patient to watch the fibers grow could be interesting, sure why not.

Just guessing without having seen your post before it was removed, did you link something without quoting the relevant parts?

 

[Morgellons]

Just guessing without having seen your post before it was removed, did you link something without quoting the relevant parts?

If I did something incorrectly, I'm still unsure what that was. On just this topic I've had 4 posts removed, but was provided clear instructions on what I did wrong for 3 of those.

The question was about determining if Morgellons fibers originate from inside the body, I shared Figure 7 from the Classification and Staging paper which demonstrates Morgellons filaments originating from epithelial cells, included the link to the paper - I don't know what it was.

 

[yoshy]

If I did something incorrectly, I'm still unsure what that was. On just this topic I've had 4 posts removed, but was provided clear instructions on what I did wrong for 3 of those.

The question was about determining if Morgellons fibers originate from inside the body, I shared Figure 7 from the Classification and Staging paper which demonstrates Morgellons filaments originating from epithelial cells, included the link to the paper - I don't know what it was.

Btw don't be discouraged by the strict modding here. Pretty much everyone runs afoul of it every now and then, especially when you first join. While it can be frustrating or confusing sometimes, I have come to really appreciate the modding here. I really do think it is a contributor to keeping the quality of the forum so high. There's also only 2 mods I believe (Mick and Landru), so that could be the cause for the delay in this case.

Posting Guidelines
Again, just guessing, but maybe you didn't provide enough context for the figure. I'm guessing one of these rules:

Be Concise. Do not write long rambling posts with multiple asides. Focus on a single claim.
Quote from Links. Links should not require clicking on in order to understand the post, so extract relevant excerpts and include them in your post. See: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/metabunks-no-click-policy.5158/
Don't Paraphrase. If you want to say what someone said, then quote them exactly. Do not paraphrase what they said.

 

[Morgellons]

Thank you for the kind affirmations, you're probably right - likely not enough context. I'd also thought about participating on other topics to develop a reputation as a rational participant, which might over time lend more credence to my contributions.

Will not get discouraged, you got it