Debunked: Video: Two chemtrail tankers almost collide with fedex jet?

jvnk08

Senior Member.
[Admin: For a more detailed explanation of why this shows normal air traffic, and the procedures related to traffic avoidance, see: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-fed-ex-md-11-almost-collides-with-ghost-tankers.3191/ ]


I'm sorry if this is a repost. This video has been making the rounds lately. Another debunker pointed out that he's seen the footage before but from a different video, supposedly it's from an Indian airline. As a pilot himself he also mentioned passing so close is within safety regulations. Any help locating that video? Also, any notes from other aviation-knowledgable people here would be appreciated.

Video in question:

[UPDATE by Mick] The original video was identified as likely this Jan 31st 2007 video, by YouTube user deaphen, titled "Air India Cockpit Video with 3 Planes crossing us". It's perfectly normal air traffic, and there are several other videos showing very similar mid-air crossings. Flights are only required to be separated by 1,000 feet vertically, and the planes shown here seem to be separated by much more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
The video source is "Tankerenemy", which is a chemtrails propaganda promotion site.
Tankerenemy has had that out for a year, but this new site has re-posted it.
As with Tankerenemy's other videos, the source is key.

This is the source from 3 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FkRBX_hO8A

looks like the original came from "Liveleak"

Nothing is unusual about these fly-bys, there are plenty of videos out there which show the same thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl6iR7w7a_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm5kO-3sLMo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XetZqgJxAAA

There is nothing I can see in the video which appears to show a tanker.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Thanks for the response. I saw nothing to indicate they were tankers either. I also figure dubbing over the real audio with some random ATC chatter would be trivial. Amazing, the speeds with which they are passing each other, I would certainly be doing some pants-shitting if I were in the pilots seat.

Any chance of finding the original video w/ original audio and not posted as supposed chemtrail evidence? Would greatly ease debunking if the original video was found from well in the past with no affiliation to chemtrails all around it.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
The name WineFlyGuy rings a bell. Something like that. Was it him that posted them on contrailscience?

I seem to recall posting on there that his videos would be used as chemtrail evidence.

Not sure that video's one of his though. I'll see if I can find the user on youtube.
 

Unskeptical

New Member
Debunk this someone

http://youtu.be/CATdO1wUQNs
Source - http://thenaturalresponse.org/is-this-the-most-damning-chemtrail-video-yet/

I don't believe it for 1 second but i have a few questions about this video, i dont know if you guys have seen it yet or not.

1. Why are tankers flying in airspace with no knowledge from ATC. (very dangerous)

2. Why are they spraying massive trails at the same altitude that other planes are flying while they don't leave trails.

Im sure someone here has the most correct legitimate answer. cheers.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
1. They are not.
2. They are at different altitudes (at least 1,000 feet separation).
 

Chew

Senior Member.

solrey

Senior Member.
Just another day at the "office" for an airline pilot.

Airline traffic cockpit view + TCAS

In the "chemtrail" video, somebody is just making stuff up over what's normal routine aircraft separation in dense air traffic. Those planes might look close on camera but to those with experience in such matters, it's easy to see there's at least 1,000 feet of vertical separation between planes on opposite and cross headings, per FAA regs. 1,000 feet can easily be the difference between flying in one layer of moist air that supports contrails, and another layer of dry air that does not support contrails.

Notice the instrument at the beginning of the above video and the acronym TCAS in the title? TCAS is the Traffic Collision Avoidance System.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Seems this footage is getting legs with each putting their own spin on it without any verification of the claism or even attribution of the source(s) of the footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ioppHZ0BOs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78rKNoR4T0w

Ms. Hopkins even claims in the comments to have mid air samples.

"""I would be more than happy to send you a list of lab results from mid air samples of chemtrail comments and their affects if you like. It sounds like you are unfamiliar with them."""

The video comprises various cockpit views of normal traffic. Different trail lengths result from the vertical separation. There is nothing that indicates that these were near collisions or that ATC was unaware of any of the planes in the airspace. I'm having trouble spotting any kc-135s aside from the one landing at the end of the vid.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
so where were these videos sourced from? It might be good to show the original footage, then confront the maker of the video or at least be able to show the video maker has spliced together footage and put their own subtitles n to make it appear it is something which it is not.

This video is currently being promoted strongly by Dane Wigington at his geoengineeringwatch.org.

This video actually might deserve a thread of it's own.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
so where were these videos sourced from? It might be good to show the original footage, then confront the maker of the video or at least be able to show the video maker has spliced together footage and put their own subtitles n to make it appear it is something which it is not.

This video actually might deserve a thread of it's own.
Upon further review whoever put together Live Leak video is utterly misinterpreting whats happening...The video was filmed from an Air India cockpit- it happened to capture a FedX plane requesting an altitude change. The conspiratorialist assumed- or deliberately mislead- that the dialog was coming from the same cockpit as the video being shot. Which it clearly not if you watch the original.

Moreover, its sound like it is not even US airspace- sounds like the FedEx pilot says "Ankara" so perhaps its over turkey- and all the "FAA" BS is not applicable.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
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U

Unregistered

Guest
Sorry - I think this might be a little off the subject but was hoping someone might be able to enlighten me.

http://youtu.be/KHJCzBu_uSc

I'm curious why some contrails are long and some are short?... Particularly when the planes appear to flying at the same altitude. I understand that it might probably be perception as it relates to altitude. Anyway, the attached video shows an example of what I am refering to. Please note, I'm not interested in the contrail vs. chemtrail thing. Just curious about why the trails vary in length. Thank you for your help.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Sorry - I think this might be a little off the subject but was hoping someone might be able to enlighten me.

http://youtu.be/KHJCzBu_uSc

I'm curious why some contrails are long and some are short?... Particularly when the planes appear to flying at the same altitude. I understand that it might probably be perception as it relates to altitude. Anyway, the attached video shows an example of what I am refering to. Please note, I'm not interested in the contrail vs. chemtrail thing. Just curious about why the trails vary in length. Thank you for your help.
Most likely different altitudes. See:

http://contrailscience.com/why-do-some-planes-leave-long-trails-but-others-dont/
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
1. They are not.
2. They are at different altitudes (at least 1,000 feet separation).
Oh ok, how do you know that ? I guess ill just have to take your word for it.
Great stuff guys keep it coming.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Oh ok, how do you know that ? I guess ill just have to take your word for it.
Great stuff guys keep it coming.
It's because it's looks exactly like normal traffic. There's nothing at all unusual in the video, it's just regular video of air traffic with some silly captions added. See:

 

GregMc

Senior Member.
Wineflyguy closed his youtube account a while back which is a shame. I tended to send links to his cockpit vids in my letters to people but never made copies of the vids. From memory he got lots of chemtrail comments and he may have become bored of such nonsense filling up him email inbox.
 

Fred259

New Member
Thanks for the response. I saw nothing to indicate they were tankers either. I also figure dubbing over the real audio with some random ATC chatter would be trivial. Amazing, the speeds with which they are passing each other, I would certainly be doing some pants-shitting if I were in the pilots seat.

Any chance of finding the original video w/ original audio and not posted as supposed chemtrail evidence? Would greatly ease debunking if the original video was found from well in the past with no affiliation to chemtrails all around it.


….... I think this may have been the original video.


Certainly the comments on the video are correct. Below 29,000 feet ICAO standard vertical separation is 1,000 feet minimum. Above 29,000 feet the vertical separation is further increased to a minimum of 2,000 feet.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhWy09zFC9E
 

Fred259

New Member
Not any more :) with RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Minima) 1000 foot separation goes up to 41,000 ft, and it has been in place pretty much worldwide since 2005.
Yes, I agree however I do think that the twin above in the video is a good 2,000 feet away. RVSM on paper is fine provided all the aircraft are the same category. Mediums and Heavies should not mix.... should they. And remember that M stands for Minima !
 

MikeC

Closed Account
"Mediums" and "heavies"? What are they?

and certainly it is minma - and in any given case a/c may be further appart vertically than that - there is 12,000 ft airspacebetween FL290 and FL410
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
They are wake turbulence categories. Anything 767 and above is a "Heavy" unless it is an A380, then it is a "Super". If they are on opposite tracks they are generally odd number of 1000 feet higher or lower. 1000, 3000, 5000 etc. The exception would be an aircraft on a block clearance, where they can occupy a block of altitudes. That is very unusual in busy airspace.
 

Fred259

New Member
This is a very sad video. The crew in the back of the transport aircraft are filming the F4 at an air display. Focus deep into the back of the video and beyond the tail of the F4.

The destruction and loss of the aircraft was caused by wake turbulence as Cobra points out above.

​​
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
….... I think this may have been the original video.


Certainly the comments on the video are correct. Below 29,000 feet ICAO standard vertical separation is 1,000 feet minimum. Above 29,000 feet the vertical separation is further increased to a minimum of 2,000 feet.





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhWy09zFC9E
That youtube site has another related video:


The site owner runs a surveillance camera/electronics business in India:
http://www.npconline.in/home

perhaps he could help identify the original source?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've merged the two threads here, as they cover essentially the same material. The "debunk this" thread will redirect here
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I've also updated the top post to include the original Air India video, and a brief explanation. Also edited the thread title to Debunked:...
 

MikeC

Closed Account
They are wake turbulence categories. Anything 767 and above is a "Heavy" unless it is an A380, then it is a "Super". If they are on opposite tracks they are generally odd number of 1000 feet higher or lower. 1000, 3000, 5000 etc. The exception would be an aircraft on a block clearance, where they can occupy a block of altitudes. That is very unusual in busy airspace.
thanks - I've only encountered wake turbulence reports at airfields for runway separation - I didn't know it applied in cruise as well - every day is a school day :)

I see that in cruise the separation applied is in the form of a distance - not an altitude - eg see Skybrary or this CAANZ pamphlet
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Wake turbulence in cruise is a growing problem with RVSM. I was going up to Tokyo a couple of years ago, and was returning to track after avoiding some weather. My company's return service was on the reciprocal track, 1000 feet above. I intercepted the track 20 miles after the other A330 had passed and immediately we hit its wake. It only lasted for a second or so, but it woke every passenger and gave us a bit of a scare. We were the same wake turbulence category so ostensibly there was no problem, but tell that to the passengers.

The wake from an aircraft at altitude generally descends at 500 fpm so it is possible to predict roughly where it might be using the prevailing wind.... something I have tried to do since that night.
 
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