Debunked: Tail Sprayers & Fake Infrared [Contrail Gaps and Photoshop]

rem0

New Member
I asked a couple of questions related to the look-up-uk image and have now been blocked on their facebook page. Seems they are not interested in anything they can't answer.

I got the same treatment from Ian Simpson when I questioned his infograph regarding baggage containers on his facebook page :-(
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
congratulations "mick" you have a special mention on "geoengineering watch'
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...actics-debunking-the-debunkers/#comment-58435

This is a telling response there:

Andy Kruusi says:
January 28, 2014 at 1:37 am
Thank you. Hopefully newcomers will be aware of these dark agents and not be fooled. I frequent Skyderalert’s forum and it was getting hammered by trolls. There are some that slip in and it seems they’re there for the right reasons and then later start showing why they’re really there…to create confusion and distraction. The aforementioned website is much better now and has a great group. Thanks again. Good info to refer back to.
Content from External Source
This is why it's so difficult to talk sense to them. They believe you are the enemy. It's very cult-like thinking.
 

keefe

Active Member
My speculation was correct:


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2579591/pg19#45182646

I hope your are happy Noble. You do more damage to rational debates than anyone I know. The majority of the insulting and worthless comments cited in this article have your unique finger prints all over them. :wakeup:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...actics-debunking-the-debunkers/#comment-58435
Content from External Source

Oh, and by the way. I AM William01702. And I will continue to point out that these ignorant liars are spreading fear and hate BECAUSE they are stupid!
[/quote]
I knew it was you. Because of your particularly nasty use of insults.
Content from External Source
[/QUOTE]

Good point George - when I first found contrailscience i was a "believer" - i had not seen anything debunking chemtrails and i simply believed that contrails allways dissipated quickly, because i had never noticed persistent trails before ... at first i was suspicious because i had heard of "shills", but as i studied the site i began to see that it is for real (i think it was the WW2 bomber film that clinched it for me) - I was also impressed by Mick's attiude of providing the info and discouraging insults etc. as being unhelpfull.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Good point George - when I first found contrailscience i was a "believer" - i had not seen anything debunking chemtrails and i simply believed that contrails allways dissipated quickly, because i had never noticed persistent trails before ... at first i was suspicious because i had heard of "shills", but as i studied the site i began to see that it is for real (i think it was the WW2 bomber film that clinched it for me) - I was also impressed by Mick's attiude of providing the info and discouraging insults etc. as being unhelpfull.
Glad to hear. It is important to approach all people no matter where they are in their journey with concern and respect. We all can be misled and deceived at some level, no one is immune. What is clear to me may well be difficult for someone else.
 

keefe

Active Member
I just came across this while looking for something else - no names mentioned but i think we can tell who they are talking about ...

"Trolls are disciples of the two most prolific disinformation sites on the internet. These two main disinformation sites are positioned to come up first whenever anyone does a simple google search for more information about “chemtrails”, geoengineering, or leaders in the movement to increase awareness, (This is why it’s imperative to search beyond the mainstream using scholarly search engines to bypass the disinformation). Unsurprisingly, both sites are run by the same individual, a man whom the trolls worship and blindly follow. This is best described as a “disinformation cult”. The leader and operator of both disinformation sites, is not an expert in atmospheric sciences, aviation, or meteorology, but is a gaming programmer. Apparently, he’s able to program the minds of gullible prey as well. His trolls have the audacity to liken the effort to increase awareness about hazardous, risky weather and climate engineering programs to “religious zealots”, when in reality, that is precisely what they are."

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/portrait-of-a-cult/
 

keefe

Active Member
Look at their advice for how to deal with people who disagree with them:


1) Never “reply to” them; (do not fall for their tactics).

2) REPORT them, because what they’re doing is a form of cyber-BULLYING.

3) On your page, DELETE their comments and BLOCK them.
Content from External Source
Do those look like the tactics of people who know they are right?

Or the tactics of people who are running a scam and are terrified of being shown up by people who know more than they do?

They are following their own advice - yesterday I posted a question there asking them to point out for me some of the disinformation on contrail science, and they have already deleted my question.
 

keefe

Active Member
Holy crap that's insane. Poison pen from a toxic mind. Utterly ridiculous.

I followed the link to the writer of that - "Rebel Siren" - and curiously enough found this ...

http://rebelsiren.wordpress.com/201...-presentation-by-solar-expert-dane-wigington/

... which is a talk by Dane Wigington in January this year that was posted a month or so back in a facebook group i follow - these things seem to go around in circles on the 'net ...

I find it rather strange that within the first three minutes he is showing the photo's of tanks inside planes, which can be easily shown for what they are, and even more strange that before that he shows the "tanker enemy" hoax film - surely he must know what both of these things really are?

I am curious about the contrail he shows first though - i understand why there are gaps in the trail (although i have never seen big question marks in the sky before!) but what does he mean by saying "the plumes are of different length" and "there are different compositions in the trail" ? is there anything unusual about that trail and can you explain what is actually happening there?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I followed the link to the writer of that - "Rebel Siren" - and curiously enough found this ...

http://rebelsiren.wordpress.com/201...-presentation-by-solar-expert-dane-wigington/

... which is a talk by Dane Wigington in January this year that was posted a month or so back in a facebook group i follow - these things seem to go around in circles on the 'net ...

I find it rather strange that within the first three minutes he is showing the photo's of tanks inside planes, which can be easily shown for what they are, and even more strange that before that he shows the "tanker enemy" hoax film - surely he must know what both of these things really are?

I am curious about the contrail he shows first though - i understand why there are gaps in the trail (although i have never seen big question marks in the sky before!) but what does he mean by saying "the plumes are of different length" and "there are different compositions in the trail" ? is there anything unusual about that trail and can you explain what is actually happening there?

It's hard to pin Dane down, but without looking at the specific image in question I'll just say that Dane thinks that ALL trails are "chemtrails" now. He says that even "short bright trails" are chemtrails, the only difference being the 'chemical' content of the various trails. Yes, he has been told that the KC-10 film is just showing aerodynamic contrails and that there are not "nozzles" there and what the tanks are. It's in a 'debate' with Mick, somewhere here. Dane just seems to be able to remove from his mind, anything he doesn't want to 'know' and go back to reciting his previous false talking points.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I just came across this while looking for something else - no names mentioned but i think we can tell who they are talking about ...

"Trolls are disciples of the two most prolific disinformation sites on the internet. These two main disinformation sites are positioned to come up first whenever anyone does a simple google search for more information about “chemtrails”, geoengineering, or leaders in the movement to increase awareness, (This is why it’s imperative to search beyond the mainstream using scholarly search engines to bypass the disinformation). Unsurprisingly, both sites are run by the same individual, a man whom the trolls worship and blindly follow. This is best described as a “disinformation cult”. The leader and operator of both disinformation sites, is not an expert in atmospheric sciences, aviation, or meteorology, but is a gaming programmer. Apparently, he’s able to program the minds of gullible prey as well. His trolls have the audacity to liken the effort to increase awareness about hazardous, risky weather and climate engineering programs to “religious zealots”, when in reality, that is precisely what they are."

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/portrait-of-a-cult/

I think the next paragraph should be noted too:

Some trolls get compensated (a.k.a. “shillidiocy”), while others are mere sheep, disciples that are programmed into blindly following the herd and unwittingly help do the dirty work by spreading around the propaganda (lies/disinformation). It’s like a mass Stockholm syndrome where these dimwitted egocentric followers’ limited intellects are held captive by their narcissistic “guru”, the gaming programmer, because their insecure need to “cling” and “follow” outweighs any sense of humanity that an intelligent independent thinker would have.
Content from External Source
I think Mick needs to watch his back. This is seriously wacko thinking, focused directly at him.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Apparently, he’s able to program the minds of gullible prey as well. His trolls have the audacity to liken the effort to increase awareness about hazardous, risky weather and climate engineering programs to “religious zealots”, when in reality, that is precisely what they are."

Mick is talented. He has not only gained control of those that post here, he has likewise duped every pilot, meteorologist, geologist, environmental scientist and climatologist on the planet as well.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Back to the opening topic of this thread.

Am I off in questioning the motivation of someone that recolors a photo using computer graphics and tries to pass off that photo as "infrared"?
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Back to the opening topic of this thread.

Am I off in questioning the motivation of someone that recolors a photo using computer graphics and tries to pass off that photo as "infrared"?
No. I think it is important to note the chronic dishonesty being employed in promoting the chemtrail story.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
No. I think it is important to note the chronic dishonesty being employed in promoting the chemtrail story.

It is also important not to claim dishonesty, where it is possible they are just mistaken.

Here I think they are possibly mistaking image enhancement for IR.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
It is also important not to claim dishonesty, where it is possible they are just mistaken.

Here I think they are possibly mistaking image enhancement for IR.

I missed some of the details. I thought the vid maker was claiming IR when he had only done some sort of image filtering process. No?

In the end, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between mistakes and intentional lies. If people continually and willfully brush away facts in order to avoid diluting their story, are they liars?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure (just on my iphone here). But the person talking on the OP video did not make the images. He copied the video from elsewhere, and I think he might just have assumed it was IR.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I'm not sure (just on my iphone here). But the person talking on the OP video did not make the images. He copied the video from elsewhere, and I think he might just have assumed it was IR.

OK. Gees... when people use such dismally poor methods of data gathering("research") and don't understand/care what they promote as long as it supports their beliefs, it creates SUCH a mess!
 

Ian Simpson

New Member
Well i have to say lots of interesting stuff there. No surprises really, just the same old same old. With reference to blocking people we have a very clear and consistent policy on our page, which is if genuine people ask genuine questions, no matter how contrary they are, we will leave those comments there and try and respond as best we can, and that even includes some flippant ridicule. We dont allow offensive material obviously and delete it. So to answer accusations of blocking members of this website, of course we do, because what they post is neither genuine nor constructive, and their identities are not real either, so they fall very much within our 'delete and ban' policy. Most intelligent people now realise what this forum is, and it aims, now so my comments will not come as a big surprise to most.

So, explanations out of the way, let's address some interesting images you guys have posted shall we. 3rd trails? Care to explain?

You all claim that ''contrails' are the result of moisture in the exhaust gases freezing very quickly and forming ice crystals. Tenuous at best, but more importantly where does the moisture for the 3rd trail come from. A KC10, and i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?

I look forward with some excitement to you responses :)
 

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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
where does the moisture for the 3rd trail come from. A KC10, and i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?

A KC-10 is a version of the passenger DC-10. They ALL have 3 engines. Note that the DC-10 is no longer in production, superseded by the MD-11.

PS: I have several thousand hours on the DC-10 as a pilot. I am very familiar with the airplane.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
So to answer accusations of blocking members of this website, of course we do, because what they post is neither genuine nor constructive, and their identities are not real either, so they fall very much within our 'delete and ban' policy. Most intelligent people now realise what this forum is, and it aims, now so my comments will not come as a big surprise to most.

And, you are entirely mistaken. Because, this site includes facts and more importantly, contributions from many like myself who have real-life experience in aviation, and particularly in large commercial jets.

There are others who are experts in related fields of science. The difficulty is in explaining to a non-scientific layperson the info that has taken a particular expert many years to learn.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So, explanations out of the way, let's address some interesting images you guys have posted shall we. 3rd trails? Care to explain?

You all claim that ''contrails' are the result of moisture in the exhaust gases freezing very quickly and forming ice crystals. Tenuous at best, but more importantly where does the moisture for the 3rd trail come from. A KC10, and i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?

I look forward with some excitement to you responses :)

Ian, no offense intended, but in the time it took you to type "i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?" you could have found out. This makes it look like you are trolling. Please at least do the very basic research before posting similar questions again.

 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
Ian, perhaps if you didn't routinely block people like myself, after we were genuinely trying to set you straight on many notions you have that are not only plain wrong but physically impossible, such as hypersonic Airbus A320s that you need to invent to explain how aircraft can fly to the fictitious island in the Bay of Guinea and back to stay on schedule, then you wouldn't embarrass yourself by not knowing that there are 3 engined jets flying around, called KC10s, MD11s, and DC10s.

There is a KC10 flight engineer who posts here regularly, but you probably have him blocked on your page.
 

keefe

Active Member
Well i have to say lots of interesting stuff there. No surprises really, just the same old same old. With reference to blocking people we have a very clear and consistent policy on our page, which is if genuine people ask genuine questions, no matter how contrary they are, we will leave those comments there and try and respond as best we can, and that even includes some flippant ridicule. We dont allow offensive material obviously and delete it. So to answer accusations of blocking members of this website, of course we do, because what they post is neither genuine nor constructive, and their identities are not real either, so they fall very much within our 'delete and ban' policy. Most intelligent people now realise what this forum is, and it aims, now so my comments will not come as a big surprise to most.

So, explanations out of the way, let's address some interesting images you guys have posted shall we. 3rd trails? Care to explain?

You all claim that ''contrails' are the result of moisture in the exhaust gases freezing very quickly and forming ice crystals. Tenuous at best, but more importantly where does the moisture for the 3rd trail come from. A KC10, and i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?

I look forward with some excitement to you responses :)

I posted a link yesterday on the lookup facebook page to the metabunk discussion on "pylon drains" - but Ian has deleted it, banned me, and labelled me as a "shill" - there was nothing offensive in my comment - i put the link there so that lookup's users could check it out for themselves - and i used my real name, so i can't quite see how i fall into the "delete and ban" category ... so much for free speech...
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
Well i have to say lots of interesting stuff there. No surprises really, just the same old same old. With reference to blocking people we have a very clear and consistent policy on our page, which is if genuine people ask genuine questions, no matter how contrary they are, we will leave those comments there and try and respond as best we can, and that even includes some flippant ridicule. We dont allow offensive material obviously and delete it. So to answer accusations of blocking members of this website, of course we do, because what they post is neither genuine nor constructive, and their identities are not real either, so they fall very much within our 'delete and ban' policy. Most intelligent people now realise what this forum is, and it aims, now so my comments will not come as a big surprise to most.

So, explanations out of the way, let's address some interesting images you guys have posted shall we. 3rd trails? Care to explain?

You all claim that ''contrails' are the result of moisture in the exhaust gases freezing very quickly and forming ice crystals. Tenuous at best, but more importantly where does the moisture for the 3rd trail come from. A KC10, and i have no idea i have to admit, what a KC10 is, but it certainly seems to have only 2 engines?

I look forward with some excitement to you responses :)


Hi Ian, I am glad you stopped by. I am a KC-10 instructor flight engineer with over 3500 hours of flight time. In my previous job I was an F15C/D aircraft mechanic, working on the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-100 low bypass turbofan engines. Since then the engines have been upgraded to the more efficient and F100-PW-220.

I took the time to drop by your site the other day, and couldn't help but notice the new "modification" you had discovered on the Airbus A320, that you believed was a modified aerosol delivery system. You had been asking for schematics showing what indeed this "modification" actually was. It seems we never got to discuss it further, since the Lufthansa A320 manual I posted, showing that these tubes are in fact pylon drains was swiftly removed from your site, and I was blocked, claiming that pylon drains "don't exist", the manuals were photoshopped and that planes costing $100 million "do not leak anything".

Screen Shot 2014-07-19 at 2.59.34 AM.png

Since that topic is for the other thread, I would like to formally invite you to stop by and explain how a heavy aircraft with thousands of moving parts to include internal engine bearings and hundreds of feet of hydraulic, fuel, pneumatic and water plumbing cannot leak. I would be glad to even show you the picture from boeing.com that shows engine drains on their products. I flew last night and during my preflight walk around I happened to notice that my beloved KC-10 also has these pylon drains. I would be more than happy to hear your explanation without anyone being censored, blocked or deleted after presenting documented facts. I can tell you that my engine leaks a lot:

300X400.jpg

And because the hydraulics can and will leak, I have this checklist in my publications:

500X400.jpg

One of the most significant DC-10 accidents in history was United 232, which had a catastrophic loss of all 3 hydraulic systems after a #2 engine (tail engine) failure. Had it not been for the actions of the legendary Captain Al Haynes, who managed to land the aircraft with just the use of the engine throttles, everyone on board would have been killed that day. It was that incident that prompted a modification of the hydraulic system, and this checklist.

500X200.jpg


The main reason for this post is the fact that I noticed this post from you earlier.

Screen Shot 2014-07-19 at 2.55.48 AM.png

I would be glad to explain. The KC-10 has three engines, since it is a modified DC-10 with an air refueling boom and drogue assembly, used to refuel other aircraft in the air. Here is a picture from FlightAware of us taking off in Scotland:

045694782cd979ccfb7f7d9cec9e4b121c324617.jpg

The pictures you have posted of the "Tail Sprayers" are all of 2 engine airliners. If you take a look at the shots of a KC-10 from below, you will see the #2 engine on the tail producing a contrail just as the wing engines are, with the contrail forming some distance behind the exhaust of the General Electric CF6-50C2 high bypass turbofan engines. (73% fan, 27% core). It is similar to its bigger sister the MD-11.

Screen Shot 2014-07-19 at 2.46.28 AM.png

Screen Shot 2014-07-19 at 2.46.42 AM.png

kc-10 red libnes.png

I am excited as well to hear your response sir!
 
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Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
With reference to blocking people we have a very clear and consistent policy on our page, which is if genuine people ask genuine questions, no matter how contrary they are, we will leave those comments there and try and respond as best we can, and that even includes some flippant ridicule.
Absolute rubbish. I have seen the comments that people have left explaining that you are totally wrong. They were genuine, polite and factual and yet they were deleted almost immediately.

Please explain what your motivation is in spreading your lies and fear.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
So to answer accusations of blocking members of this website, of course we do, because what they post is neither genuine nor constructive, and their identities are not real either
And yet on your "Contact us" page you say:

You do not have to identify yourself at any stage if you do not wish to.
Content from External Source
http://www.look-up.org.uk/contact-us/

Or does that only apply to people who are "on board"?
 

youniquelikeme

New Member
(corrected) EDIT:....sure, "infrared" is a source and a radiation of heat.....and is part of how a "thermal camera" works.......but the video in question is obviously not showing a thermal/infrared signature.
(I did not explain it very well, in my above post.)
As Mick noted above.....the video is thinking that to "posterize" or "solarize" the image is the same as showing heat. It's not even close to being a true thermal image. (the video uses the term "thermal image")

True thermal cameras can be quite expensive.......
http://www.opticsplanet.com/heat-seekers-termal-imagers.html


I thought the same when I viewed it. The number of clicks they are getting is much more important than the truth.
 
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