Jeffrey Orling
Senior Member
What started the 7wtc fires?
What caused the sub station to go off line... Con Ed did report that?
What was the "explosion" or damage from one that Hess referred to when he was exiting the building?
Debunked: Mysterious Explosion Before the Flight 11 Crash
- Thread starter Marc Powell
- Start date
What caused the sub station to go off line... Con Ed did report that?
What was the "explosion" or damage from one that Hess referred to when he was exiting the building?
Gamolon
Active Member
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=con_edison_1
Power Loss Is Reportedly due to 'Collateral Damage' Caused by the Crash - According to Con Edison, the loss of power occurs because two "open/auto" feeders go off. [9/11 COMMISSION, 2/26/2004] (Feeders are sets of conductors that distribute power from a substation. [NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY, 11/2008, PP. 637] ) According to NIST, "two of the circuits [i.e. the feeders] tripped automatically… as a result of collateral damage caused by the aircraft impact into [the North Tower]." [NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY, 11/2008, PP. 643] The power comes back on quickly because "it was rerouted automatically by computers," according to Brown. [FIREHOUSE, 1/31/2003] "The backup system kicked in, another feeder kicked in," he will explain. [RADIO ON THE REAL, 7/9/2013] The power in WTC 7 will go off again at around 9:03 a.m., when Flight 175 crashes into the South Tower (see 9:03 a.m. September 11, 2001). [9/11 COMMISSION, 2/26/2004
Jeffrey Orling
Senior Member
I find the WTC falling debris not a best fit cause for the fires at col 79. floors 12/13
Gamolon
Active Member
You asked what started the fires in WTC7, not what started/caused the fires at column 79, on floors 12/13. Office fires can "move around" as they consume flammable materials yes? Sounds to me like the fires were started by falling debris and eventually reached column 79 on floors 12/13.
Jeffrey Orling
Senior Member
I suppose the beams and girder on that floor was the most vulnerable to failure.
investigating911
Member
New videos of audio tape around the time of the crashes (you might want to download in case they are taken down for whatever reason by the original uploader or aren't available).
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYqMB1Gt1us
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp9EzNxUP14&list=UUucbYCLfpKT1L7YfNBUd7rg
The first crash is recorded while the recorders are in the Greenhouse Cafe of the Marriott Hotel, where the roof is a glass enclosure and the location is in between the north and south towers (almost directly south of the north tower, northeast of the south tower).
You can hear the initial low bang on presumably the north face after one of the patrons asks for rootbeer, followed around 5 seconds later by the explosion traveling out of the south face and the debris raining down. It takes nearly 20 seconds for the explosion and debris raining down from the south face to stop sounding like a rapidly traveling jetfuel explosion and more similar to the gentler crackle of fires and falling papers.
Full podcast with released recording from these FBI tapes is here: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119...episode/audio-artifact-the-fbi-tape-85955153/
The Naudet brothers video of the north tower impact when paired with this appears to indicate that the initial impact of the plane is muffled, but with the explosion out of the south face being heard and reverberating after explosions of smoke and flame from the east and south faces has occurred.
In contrast, the video taken south of the WTC appears to just have a single loud bang from the impact of the aircraft into the north tower, with any other sounds occurring afterward (such as from falling debris or fires) being too far away or overshadowed by police sirens to be audible.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYqMB1Gt1us
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp9EzNxUP14&list=UUucbYCLfpKT1L7YfNBUd7rg
The first crash is recorded while the recorders are in the Greenhouse Cafe of the Marriott Hotel, where the roof is a glass enclosure and the location is in between the north and south towers (almost directly south of the north tower, northeast of the south tower).
You can hear the initial low bang on presumably the north face after one of the patrons asks for rootbeer, followed around 5 seconds later by the explosion traveling out of the south face and the debris raining down. It takes nearly 20 seconds for the explosion and debris raining down from the south face to stop sounding like a rapidly traveling jetfuel explosion and more similar to the gentler crackle of fires and falling papers.
Full podcast with released recording from these FBI tapes is here: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119...episode/audio-artifact-the-fbi-tape-85955153/
The Naudet brothers video of the north tower impact when paired with this appears to indicate that the initial impact of the plane is muffled, but with the explosion out of the south face being heard and reverberating after explosions of smoke and flame from the east and south faces has occurred.
In contrast, the video taken south of the WTC appears to just have a single loud bang from the impact of the aircraft into the north tower, with any other sounds occurring afterward (such as from falling debris or fires) being too far away or overshadowed by police sirens to be audible.
Marc Powell
Active Member
Thanks for sharing the FBI audio recording of the Flight 11 impact. I had heard it previously. The Marriott Hotel (WTC 3) was directly below the exit hole on the south side of WTC 1 and was hit by debris and wreckage that rained down on it after the plane crash. While it doesn't have the two distinct bangs heard in the Ginny Carr recording, the FBI audio recording confirms that there was no explosion heard before the plane crash.
investigating911
Member
I have noticed that video taken from different vantage points of the first plane crash sometimes features only one distinct bang instead of two.
The Naudet video (the most famous and one of the few up close videos of the first impact) only has one distinct bang for example.
I would argue that in the FBI tape there are actually two distinct bangs: the first bang being heard at 0:39 (0:08) in the first (second) video followed by the second bang at 0:45 (0:12), where the first bang is associated with the collision of the airplane with the north face of the north tower, and the second bang being associated with the exit of the plane debris and fiery explosion out of the south and east faces of the north tower.
I would guess that for some reason in the Naudet video (possibly muffling of the sound of the plane impact above and to the south by nearby bulidings and the location being still a few blocks north of the towers so that the noise of the impact is not instantaneously heard), there is only one bang, that being the bang associated with the exit of the plane debris out of the south face of the north tower. The first video appears to show this at 0:45, with a reddish fireball being visible jutting out of the south face behind the more visible white/grey smoke and orange flames from the north and east faces.
The plane was angled to the east at the last moment, so that possibly explains why in addition to the explosion out of the south face, there was a jetfuel explosion that blew out columns in the east face but not the west face.
Given the location of the Marriott hotel's Greenhouse Cafe (directly south of the north tower but also with views to the east plaza) the second bang and debris raining down that lasts about 20 seconds is likely the sound of the debris raining down from the explosions flaring out of of the blown out columns on the south and east faces of the north tower.
The videos do provide additional confirmation that all was structurally sound in the building until the plane crashed, which visually and audibly evidence also shows (such as no smoke or sound of flames being present at the base of the building before the first plane crash).
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