Debunked: Hochsprung Email Suggests Sandy Hook Vacated Months Before Massacre Event

Bruno D.

Senior Member.
It's actually a VERY GOOD evidence that SH was actually fully working. This should be added as debunking material to the main SH thread.
 

Thom

Banned
Banned
Too bad that pdf attachment wasn't included in the release, that would definitely put these emails into a concrete context.

It would be an interesting experiment to ask 100 people to read the contents of the emails, but not the subject line (edit: and no association to Sandy Hook) and see how many people would naturally assume they were discussing moving rooms opposed to getting transferred which in all fairness, without the subject line, i believe is a pretty reasonable assumption. I guess moving rooms is a big deal, enough to cause this sort of email exchange that displays such melodramatic responces. Also, when you get transferred, You're still moving rooms. That pdf file would be very useful in connecting the content with the subject title more then the contents do naturally IMO.
 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
Too bad that pdf attachment wasn't included in the release
Yea, I'm sure anothr debunker will send in a FOIA request and release it to us, then i will update. I too find it suspicious Mr. Halbig did not release any other emails that referenced the context of their conversation.


It would be an interesting experiment to ask 100 people to read the contents of the emails, but not the subject line (edit: and no association to Sandy Hook) and see how many people would naturally assume they were discussing moving rooms opposed to getting transferred
Why? we have the subject line. It's the biggest font on the page, are you suggesting James Tracey "missed it" when he read the email?



melodramatic responces
it's not melodramatic at all. maybe you could get a job in school janitorial services and let us know how bad moving rooms sucks on top of all your other duties.

There are many reasons to change rooms in schools, none of which will make teachers especially happy. In my experience, teachers don't like people messing with their rooms esp. if they have to come in during the summer months and pack their belongings up. It's alot of work.

The elementary schools at the time were pushing hard to extend kindergarten to full-day kindergarten. Which would also explain the need for rearranging classrooms. And perhaps they were discussing the teacher's not being happy about service reductions.


6/29/2012
http://www.newtownbee.com/news/125334





Submitted by admin on Fri, 08/03/2012 - 00:00
http://www.newtownbee.com/news/125882


or they were just rearranging (again) due to yet another year of decreased student numbers.There was a major budget debate happening at the time.

http://www.newtownbee.com/news/126192

 

MikeG

Senior Member.
Schools are constantly rearranging rooms for the sake of increased (or decreased) enrollment, new equipment, faculty hires, general reorganization, etc. New administrators like to tinker with new floor plans. State mandates require space for special education and other programs. Teachers definitely dislike the disruption, but it is part of the routine of most schools.

And "routine" is probably the best way to describe what they were doing at Sandy Hook.
 

Thom

Banned
Banned
There is a lot of speculation and generalizations so far on this thread.

My beef with this thread is that it has a feel of lazy debunking, even if I dont necessarily disagree with the ultimate result. Emails are released. A claim is made that the contents of the emails suggest that Sandy Hook was vacated months before Massacre event. I think the key word here is suggest. So, the quickest way to debunk this is to analyze the contents of the email, and show how the contents are being misinterpreted or just analyzed wrong. But Deirdre didnt attempt to do that. She instead, pointed to the supposed subject line, and said, thats it. end of story. She is entirely correct that these emails are labeled initially with something that looks like a subject line as "Changing Rooms". So, that should solve any misinterpretations. In my opinion, it does not. It actually creates more questions. This is even evident in her response, because she proceeded to throw mud at the wall and hope something would stick to explain why teachers would be moving, all which were total speculation even though they were included with quotes from a newspaper which makes the speculation look more official, but doesnt provide any evidence to support these speculations. I get it, teachers move rooms. But .. what does "teachers" mean? All teachers? Some teachers? Only teacher effected? Two or Four?

The problem with the email is that we are spying upon communications that two people were having on a subject they preliminarily knew and therefore cannot anticipate the meaning of words that would be understood between two people having a communication which they would use loosely without specifying in a precise manner.

I get the feeling like this is a widespread thing, whatever it is. I totally could be wrong ... but I could also go down the rabbit hole of speculation like Deirdre did and ask the same questions, in an opposite manner ... "Why would so many teachers have to move within the same building?" i dont know and I dont even know if thats the right question. All i know is that without the pdf, I think these answers are elusive, and hence, even with the subject header, considering the contents of the emails that seem to point to something way more drastic (IMO), I believe this should not be considered totally debunked yet.

Also, I am wondering if Deirdre has any evidence that the pdf WAS released and was recieved by Mt. Halbig, and Mr.Halbig did not release it. If not, there is an equal possibility that the pdf attached to the emails just werent released TO Halbig with the emails to begin with.

Im more concerned with strong debunking on this issue by the way. I really dont have a dog in the fight. Personally, I do find the emails to be pretty melodramatic if they were moving rooms. Doesnt mean they werent moving rooms. I highly doubt that most people would read the contents of the emails in a blind experiment and automatically assume they were referring to just moving rooms, but thats my opinion.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
My beef with this thread is that it has a feel of lazy debunking
i know, thats why i liked it, because it debunked itself.


the claim was
and the email subject debunks that. The email alone does not suggest the school was vacated. It suggests there were going to be Room changes. that's it.

Now if Tracey spent 5 minutes and sent a request for that email and PDF, and provided a PDF showing a different school altogether then that would be a different story.

If Tracey provided ANY other follow up emails, or school budgets showing a massive move to another location, letters to parents, new bus schedules, newspaper articles about a move, bills/correspondence going to a different address etc. etc then that would be a different story too.

But he didn't.




So, the quickest way to debunk this is to analyze the contents of the email, and show how the contents are being misinterpreted or just analyzed wrong. But Deirdre didnt attempt to do that
well did i (and Mike) do that or were we just speculating. make up your mind.

Also, I am wondering if Deirdre has any evidence that the pdf WAS released and was recieved by Mt. Halbig
nope.
If not, there is an equal possibility that the pdf attached to the emails just werent released TO Halbig with the emails to begin with
.
so? you're the one who has an issue with the PDF. I know once the debunkers get it they will release it.
 

MikeG

Senior Member.
I also don’t have a particular dog in this fight, but I’ll add my own impressions to the discussion.

Our information is obviously not complete. We don’t know how many faculty were affected by “room changes” at Sandy Hook, although we do know from the wording that it was in the plural.

From that point we can apply available evidence. The reductions associated with full-day kindergarten appear to match the email regarding room changes. But again, we don’t absolutely know if there is a direct correlation between the two.

The media coverage of the full-day kindergarten is important in another sense. It reveals a great deal scrutiny with respect to changes at the school. I have to imagine that if the school actually did close, local media would be all over the story. It was not.

A “reasonable person” standard follows. I added my own interpretation about changes because I have been teaching for 21 years and “room changes” are a normal occurrence. I have seen the same expertise applied on Metabunk on issues related to hard science, aircraft piloting, etc. I still might be wrong, but I don’t see an aberration in “room changes” here.

I don’t think we can debunk issues with absolute certainty, but with a reasonable preponderance of evidence.

We are not helped by individuals like Halbig, who deliberately manipulate information.

That said, I think Thom is right about the pdf attachment once it is released, although its title (Blank 7) is interesting in itself.

My two cents.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Sure, the pdf would be helpful,

but as far as it goes, the e-mail is inadvertently better proof of a functioning school than the opposite...

which may feel a bit lazy...but it also humorously reveals the silliness behind some of these dopey claims.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
[
The reductions associated with full-day kindergarten appear to match the email regarding room changes.
i dont think it was that now. they voted on it the night before (6 nays) and it would be odd for Hochsprung not to hear the results even if she didnt attend the BOE meeting personally.So IF changes were made it was probably routine stuff. (but FD kindergarten wouldnt mean reductions, since they like to keep grades together typically, they would have to shift rooms to squeeze an additional 2-4 rooms in)



I personally think the PDF is a moot point to the thread, as Tracy did not provide the PDF or give any acknowledgement he attempted to procure it. So the claim is based on what HE presented in his article, which is the email only.

I'm sure i could ask around and find out WHY there were Room Changes, except i have no evidence there were. So I'm not going to bother people at this point.

Hochsprung states it is "not set in stone" and they still need to have a meeting "next Thursday". Tracy states Halbig has hundreds of emails, so I'm guessing IF they decided to go ahead and change Rooms or make changes to the rooms, there would be additional emails to the maintenance department about it, since those are the guys doing most of the work. But until i see those additional emails, i'm personally not going to waste my time 'investigating' further.

That said the maintenance department works all summer. You or Thom could write/email Anzellotti and get the PDF pretty quickly. (The hoaxers wont believe you of course, but at least you will personally know the truth)
Based on the FOIA appeals hearing with Halbig, we have absolutely no reason at all to think Newtown isn't providing FULL documentation to FOI requests.
 
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Mick West Debunked: Pentagon has Evidence of "Off-World Vehicles Not Made on this Earth" UFO Videos and Reports from the US Navy 14
derrick06 Debunked: United Nations creates a "NWO" website Conspiracy Theories 2
N Debunked: Google Mail icon shows linkage to Freemasons Conspiracy Theories 4
Mendel Debunked: The WHO did not take the Taiwan CDC seriously Coronavirus COVID-19 0
A Why 9/11 Truthers Are Wrong About The Facts | (Part 1 w/ Mick West) 9/11 1
Mendel Debunked: Radar Waves Affect Clouds General Discussion 0
Pumpernickel Need Debunking: Foucault's Pendulum debunked through Mach's principle (the Earth is a static object in the center of the Universe) Science and Pseudoscience 16
M Ufos arrive to the central zone of Chile. (Debunked). Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
Jesse3959 FE Debunked with water tube level - 187 foot building 21.2 miles away below eye level Flat Earth 0
H Debunked: Cadillac Mountain from 220 miles Flat Earth 7
Jesse3959 FE Claim Debunked: JTolan Epic Gravity Experiment - Flat earther disproves Perspective! (or his instruments.) Flat Earth 0
Mick West Debunked: DoD prepares for martial law in CONUS: Conspiracy Theories 0
Oystein Debunked: AE911T: CNBC Anchor Ron Insana claims Building 7 a Controlled Implosion 9/11 13
A Debunked: NASA tampered with the original television audio of the Apollo 11 moon landing Conspiracy Theories 1
Greylandra Debunked: media headline "Judea declares war on Germany" [boycott] Conspiracy Theories 20
Mick West Discovery Channel's "Contact: Declassified Breakthrough" was debunked 2.5 years ago UFOs, Aliens, Monsters, and the Paranormal 8
Joe Hill Debunked: "The North Face of Building 7 Was Pulled Inward" 9/11 66
A Debunked : Fake Set Moon Landing with TV Camera and Stairs Conspiracy Theories 3
Mick West Debunked: Photo with Sun Rays at Odd Angles Flat Earth 0
Staffan Debunked: Wikileaks releases unused footage of moon landing (Capricorn One movie scenes) Conspiracy Theories 2
Mick West Debunked: Neil deGrasse Tyson : "That Stuff is Flat" Flat Earth 10
Mendel Debunked: Air Map of the World 1945 is a flat Earth map Flat Earth 0
Trailblazer Debunked: Trees being cut down "because they block 5G" (tree replacement in Belgium) 5G and Other EMF Health Concerns 44
deirdre Debunked: Exemption from military service doc proves Jews had foreknowledge of WW2 (fake leaflet) General Discussion 0
Trailblazer Debunked: Obama called Michelle "Michael" in a speech. (Referring to Michael Mullen Jr) Quotes Debunked 0
Rory Debunked: 120-mile shot of San Jacinto proves flat earth Flat Earth 39
Rory Debunked: The Lunar Cycle affects birth rates Health and Quackery 26
Rory Debunked: Study shows link between menstrual cycle and the moon Health and Quackery 30
novatron Debunked: California Wildfires Match the Exactly Path of the Proposed Rail System Wildfires 3
Rory Debunked: "You must love yourself before you love another" - fake Buddha quote Quotes Debunked 7
W Debunked: Qanon claims there have been 51k sealed indictments filed this year. Current Events 11
K Debunked: Audio of David Rockefeller "leaked" speech in 1991 [Audio Simulation] General Discussion 2
tadaaa Debunked: Fake photos-Novichok attack Russian 'agents' (side by side gates) General Discussion 34
Mick West Debunked: XYO Device Replacing GPS, Saving $2 Million a Day General Discussion 23
Mick West Debunked: "Tip Top" as a QAnon Clue from Trump [He's said it before] Conspiracy Theories 3
Whitebeard Debunked: Nibiru FOUND? Mysterious gigantic rogue planet spotted lurking outside our solar system Science and Pseudoscience 1
Mick West Debunked: "There Exists a Shadowy Government" — Daniel Inouye Quotes Debunked 0
Mick West Debunked: Delta Lambda Compression General Discussion 16
MisterB Debunked: Isle of Man from Blackpool at water level proves flat earth [refraction] Flat Earth 19
JFDee Debunked: Wernher von Braun confirmed that rockets can't leave earth Conspiracy Theories 23
Mick West Debunked: Missing $21 Trillion / $6.5 Trillion / $2.3 Trillion - Journal Vouchers Conspiracy Theories 33
MikeG Debunked: Obamacare Article 54 (Satire FB Page) General Discussion 2
Mick West Debunked: "Deadly Ultraviolet UV-C and UV-B Penetration to Earth’s Surface:" [Stray Light] Contrails and Chemtrails 30
Astro Debunked: Apollo Lunar Module Hatch Too Small for Spacesuit Science and Pseudoscience 0
Mick West Debunked: NIST's Lack of Explanation for WTC7 Freefall [They Have One - Column Buckling] 9/11 38
Jedo Debunked: WTC7 was the only building not on the WTC block that had a fire on 9/11 9/11 0
Mick West Debunked: Thermite Slag on WTC beams [Oxy Cutting Slag] 9/11 2
Mick West Debunked: The WTC 9/11 Angle Cut Column. [Not Thermite, Cut Later] 9/11 137
Mick West Debunked: AE911Truth's Analysis of Slag Residue from WTC Debris 9/11 20
Dan Wilson Debunked: Steven Crowder: The AIDS epidemic was a hoax Health and Quackery 9
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top