Community aspects of Conspiracy Theory

No need to feel silly at all, it;s a very serious issue.

Although, as you said you can't lump all people together, it is important to learn how to properly engage with people.

True Believers in CTs can't understand why YOU can't see the blindingly obvious truth that it is going on.
Hardened Skeptics can't understand why the CT'er just can't see that what they are suggesting is CLEARLY impossible.
so finding a way to see how the other thinks is extremely useful.

I also don't think that skeptics are necessarily dull people. Just because they demand some evidence before jumping at any new and exciting "discovery",you can bet they will get excited and excitable when there IS evidence for something.
while discussing the lack of proof for Mermaids with one of my friends I found a link to all sorts of cool animals with genuine superpowers that REALLY do exist. For Definite. THAT was really exciting.
Thanks for that, Efftup. I wasn't sure if this thread was helping or adding to the greater narrative of debunking at all. :)

I don't think skeptics are dull either, that was just the perception I had at the time, along with a few others I associated with. It was probably that dampening of excitement of new/different knowledge that probably led to me perceiving it that way.

I think this kind of gets at the heart of the matter. Thanks for posting that, Balance!


Kahan advocates breaking down the association that liberals think one way about a scientific issue while conservatives believe the opposite; likewise for atheists and those who are very religious. When a particular stance is tied to something that is a large influence on an individual’s sense of self, all it does is create automatic barriers. Removing those personal associations from scientific truths could allow for more reasonable discourse about important issues like the effects of climate change and could expedite good policy when it isn’t seen as one side “winning” or “losing.”
Read more at http://www.iflscience.com/brain/pol...ntial-scientific-literacy#KjuVFDPhdjLOTSp0.99
Content from External Source
That part in particular is really what I was getting at, and this article does indeed give another suggestion on how to address this topic. Awesome!
 
I don't think skeptics are dull either, that was just the perception I had at the time, along with a few others I associated with. It was probably that dampening of excitement of new/different knowledge that probably led to me perceiving it that way.
That's an excellent point TV.
 
Does this mean there is a clear distinction between which religious beliefs or political orientations and those alignments that make people more prone to falling victim to believing in CT's. Does it mean if someone is really religious they might be more inclined to fall for rapture CT's and the "end of days" CT's? Or if you are a right wing extremist, then they have a better chance of falling for Obama CT's etc, etc, etc....

No. Short answer.

Longer answer, best served with a beer, methinks....:cool:
 
I was having a thought earlier today after visiting Max Bliss' facebook page. I don't have facebook myself anymore, but I was looking through his photos and noticed how popular they were. I saw many people commenting on them on what wonderful work he was doing, how he was such a good man, compliments for his looks, etc.

He would respond in turn about how nice everyone was, how confident he was the NWO would be defeated, how fast everyone is waking up (likely felt so positive from the endorphin rush he got from such overwhelming support and love).

I wonder if the sense of community, higher purpose (in spreading CTs and fighting a higher power), and having the overwhelming approval of your peers makes one feel like they NEED the conspiracies more and more to defend the kind of social position and community they find themselves in.

Now, I know those that believe in CTs are not a homogenous group of people all with the same motives and reasoning...but for people like Max Bliss...what social consequences are there for not believing in the conspiracy? Perhaps people in that position are even harder to reach through debunking because they have much more personal investment in these theories. I'd imagine losing that sense of connection and community and like you're all fighting together against some omnipotent bad guy takes a much more personal toll and why they must come up with any and every reason not to listen to debunkings.

I'm probably not making any huge revelations here, but perhaps knowing this can help those entrenched in the conspiracy for emotional reasons not feel like they need conspiracy for community.

For one, when I was a believer in conspiracy theories and eastern spiritual philosophy (I'd say I was more into spirituality on its own than CTs to be quite honest), I considered myself a man of science, but I felt like debunkers lived colorless lives without any sense of wonder. "Everything is fine, no evidence for this, don't waste your time, facts facts facts, we know we know we know".

Not intending to offend whatsoever, but this was just my perception at the time.

Debunking/debunkers often come off as cold, calculated, and dry, and it may be this perception that makes people feel if they don't have the conspiracy, the only other option is to lead a disconnected life without much joy or wonder. Seems to be part of the reason why so often you may hear "well, science doesn't know everything! You can't say you know everything!" when no one was making that sort of claim.

I'm not sure what can be done about that, as usually discussion of facts and evidence has to by as objective as possible, and thus dry. But it might help to establish common ground when discussing things with believers in CTs when straight facts don't seem to be working and they are resistant to reason, and often break out into emotional appeals.

In addition, the need to feel like you are special and living a special kind of life can be another draw to conspiracies, and its probably exacerbated when you are a leader of such movements and are frequently validated by your followers. In my own experience, without the need to feel like I was going to become a special enlightened person through spirituality, I didn't have that subtle sense of superiority over the average joe who just wasn't in the know. Coming to terms with the idea of being average was pretty difficult for a while.

I have some ideas for establishing a common ground or maybe addressing the deeper, emotional aspect with people who believe in CTs. Being that everyone has their own reasons, it's probably best not to assume this will speak to everyone, but maybe it can help. I don't have time at the moment, but could type up some ideas on how to address these later.

Have a splendid day, everyone.

My father always says, "Everybody is crazy different." Basically your description of this can be linked to any majority vs minority group. It's not strictly linked to CTs VS Debunkers. People look at me weirdly when I say I don't follow sports.

This is the foundation for sociology.
 
Does this mean there is a clear distinction between which religious beliefs or political orientations and those alignments that make people more prone to falling victim to believing in CT's. Does it mean if someone is really religious they might be more inclined to fall for rapture CT's and the "end of days" CT's? Or if you are a right wing extremist, then they have a better chance of falling for Obama CT's etc, etc, etc....
I feel like there is a correlation between the two, but it probably has to do more with the kind of CT they will believe in rather than being prone to believe in CTs.

I used to think all people whole believed in CTs had some type of mental illness (as I did when I was entrenched in big pharma/FDA is evil/fight the NWO stuff), but as I started looking at more discussions between debunkers and CTers, it seemed that a larger amount of people than I thought were reasonably intelligent and well-adjusted. Above all, I think believing in CTs is a multi-factorial thing, but I personally believe it is ultimately not knowing how to evaluate evidence or how to identify weak arguments that brings people into CTs and keeps the myths alive for a lot of people. Having a community helps reinforce each other's belief in a CT, like WeedWhacker mentioned...it's groupthink.

The loss of the CT seems to be much more than just getting rid of an untrue idea, and I think that's important to recognize when the discussion devolves into emotional appeals than evidence.

But like moderateGOP stated, this is human nature. I think it's particularly important to understand this reaction in discussions between CTers/debunkers because there is a lot more discourse between opposing sides, in my opinion. Could be mistaken though.
 
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I feel like there is a correlation between the two, but it probably has to do more with the kind of CT they will believe in rather than being prone to believe in CTs.

I used to think all people whole believed in CTs had some type of mental illness (as I did when I was entrenched in big pharma/FDA is evil/fight the NWO stuff), but as I started looking at more discussions between debunkers and CTers, it seemed that a larger amount of people than I thought were reasonably intelligent and well-adjusted. Above all, I think believing in CTs is a multi-factorial thing, but I personally believe it is ultimately not knowing how to evaluate evidence or how to identify weak arguments that brings people into CTs and keeps the myths alive for a lot of people. Having a community helps reinforce each other's belief in a CT, like WeedWhacker mentioned...it's groupthink.

The loss of the CT seems to be much more than just getting rid of an untrue idea, and I think that's important to recognize when the discussion devolves into emotional appeals than evidence.

But like moderateGOP stated, this is human nature. I think it's particularly important to understand this reaction in discussions between CTers/debunkers because there is a lot more discourse between opposing sides, in my opinion. Could be mistaken though.

It's also interesting to note that there are different opinions among CTers which is quite unique in of itself. That's why CT's are sooo interesting to study. That's also the same reason people fall for them. Most groups tend to be Majority VS Minority, like religious groups, but CTs are all over the map. Most of them agree that it's Authority or Establishment VS them/the public/the people, but after that CTs generally differ greatly. Black Liberation Theorists believe it's them VS the white power class, while conservatives believe it's them VS the liberal establishment. On the fringe you have the UFO nuts who believe that the government is in cohorts with the aliens who abduct people to advance technology. There are also varying different opinions inside the UFO cult ranging from time traveling Jesus and ancient aliens to human clones and Cow eating monsters.

Belief in UFOs comes from paranoia about advanced technology itself, in particular medical and biological technology. Yet there is no established universal truth among UFO "researchers" except perhaps Roswell New Mexico.

I'd say the one universal constant I've seen in All CTs is that Majority VS Minority. They are also almost always populists. But there is no universal truth that they can agree on. Totally different from Religion in that aspect.
 
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I feel like there is a correlation between the two, but it probably has to do more with the kind of CT they will believe in rather than being prone to believe in CTs.

I used to think all people whole believed in CTs had some type of mental illness (as I did when I was entrenched in big pharma/FDA is evil/fight the NWO stuff), but as I started looking at more discussions between debunkers and CTers, it seemed that a larger amount of people than I thought were reasonably intelligent and well-adjusted. Above all, I think believing in CTs is a multi-factorial thing, but I personally believe it is ultimately not knowing how to evaluate evidence or how to identify weak arguments that brings people into CTs and keeps the myths alive for a lot of people. Having a community helps reinforce each other's belief in a CT, like WeedWhacker mentioned...it's groupthink.

The loss of the CT seems to be much more than just getting rid of an untrue idea, and I think that's important to recognize when the discussion devolves into emotional appeals than evidence.

But like moderateGOP stated, this is human nature. I think it's particularly important to understand this reaction in discussions between CTers/debunkers because there is a lot more discourse between opposing sides, in my opinion. Could be mistaken though.
Great insight and just out of curiosity how long were you entrenched in the CT world. How long did it take you to have that eureka moment where you finally started to see the light.
 
~30% Japanese

Know what you hear as a Japanese tourist is falling into the Grand Canyon? Not a scream, just "click...click...click..."

(Sorry, OLD joke).

ETA: I have to give full credit to that joke to others....you see, back when I was a young pup I flew for Scenic Airlines....this was my first actual job, after being a Flight Instructor for several years.

Scenic Airlines (back then) had a fleet of twin Cessnas...402s, some 404s and two 402s equipped with Allison turboprops. ONLY two ever modified in that way, BTW. We also had a vintage Ford Tri-Motor...but, it was vintage, and a sort of "heirloom".

The current "Scenic Airlines" use a different fleet of airplanes, for the "Grand Canyon Experience":
http://www.scenic.com/

They now use Twin Otters....with BIG windows...these airplanes are not pressurized. I notice that the rudders are STILL painted with the rainbow...hilarious, looking back, as such a Gay icon......

ETA...It can get pretty "bumpy" during the Summer season, and many people get airsick as a result. Not pleasant.

I have another story, related to me by one of the other pilots...but won't share it, here. Was funny, though....
 
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Great insight and just out of curiosity how long were you entrenched in the CT world. How long did it take you to have that eureka moment where you finally started to see the light.
Probably about a year, it preceded me going on some crazy dietary regimen where I wanted to detox and be as pure as possible. I thought the FDA and Big Pharma were suppressing my ability to be as healthy as possible. I was healthy before I embarked on this journey, but I thought I wanted to be as healthy as possible. I'm still paying for my mistakes, but I am working to recover every single day. My eureka moment was when I realized I was emotionally invested in the NWO being defeated, and I was researching conspiracy theory sites for hours ignoring my university work and real life responsibilities. That's when I realized I had gone off the deep end and I needed to stop doing all the crap that I was doing.
 
I'm still paying for my mistakes, but I am working to recover every single day. My eureka moment was when I realized I was emotionally invested in the NWO being defeated....

That sounds horrible!!

Glad you "snapped out of it".

Sometimes, it just takes an effort, and some friendly support......
 
Probably about a year, it preceded me going on some crazy dietary regimen where I wanted to detox and be as pure as possible. I thought the FDA and Big Pharma were suppressing my ability to be as healthy as possible. I was healthy before I embarked on this journey, but I thought I wanted to be as healthy as possible. I'm still paying for my mistakes, but I am working to recover every single day. My eureka moment was when I realized I was emotionally invested in the NWO being defeated, and I was researching conspiracy theory sites for hours ignoring my university work and real life responsibilities. That's when I realized I had gone off the deep end and I needed to stop doing all the crap that I was doing.

I have been studying CTs since I was 13 and back then I too, believed in the NWO and all that stuff. It wasn't until I studied more and more about it that I realized it was all bunk. What sealed the deal with me more particularly is the people involved in the CT world. The big names, the issues that they claimed they wanted sorted out, and the crazy politics involved that would supposedly take us there. As well as the political figures that they wanted in office, instead of who we have now. Like Ron Paul or other crazy UFO nuts that believe like they do! I thought to myself, "What is the global cabal and the NWO waiting for?" "These politicians are even more crazy than the people that are in DC now. I wouldn't trust them with the power to decide my next checkup. Let alone where my taxes go." That's when I stopped and that's also when I became a lot more moderate in my political views. Hence my username.

It took me a little bit longer before I realized this, I was 13 in 2002, right after the 9/11 CTs started popping up, but I never believed in them! So when 2008 (my first election) came around and I started hearing about the politicians CTs wanted for President or elected into congress. I was a kid, and it was my first time voting. I am glad I was able to snap out of it and not waste my first vote on a guy who has no chance. I wanted to actually be informed, not the CT version of "being informed."

I started to ask fellow CTers good questions about these crazy politicians like Ron Paul and on their forums they would go in circles to avoid answering the question, or just plain old block me from participating. Questions like, "How can one guy end the fed?"
 
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I started to ask fellow CTers good questions about these crazy politicians like Ron Paul and on their forums they would go in circles to avoid answering the question, or just plain old block me from participating. Questions like, "How can one guy end the fed?"
This is a bit off the direction of the thread, but still goes to the original point, I think: The internet is really, really good at turning a community into a blind echo chamber. You see it in everything, politics, religion, video games, comic books, TV shows... Two different Starcraft communities will have incompatible ideas of what constitutes unfair play, and woe be upon the one who suggests maybe one of the other sites has a point about tank rushing.

Some of them do this actively, like the sites that blocked moderateGOP from even participating, but it works just as well by peer pressure. Maybe even a little better, since a site can still call itself impartial when opposing views aren't moderated off the board, just shouted down by the community. One side of a debate will have a clear majority and drown out the other until its members just stop participating and the few that remain are so stubborn and confrontational that they're easily labeled as trolls and by common internet rules are fair game.

It's really easy to convince yourself that you're right when everybody seems to agree with you.
 
This is a bit off the direction of the thread, but still goes to the original point, I think: The internet is really, really good at turning a community into a blind echo chamber. You see it in everything, politics, religion, video games, comic books, TV shows... Two different Starcraft communities will have incompatible ideas of what constitutes unfair play, and woe be upon the one who suggests maybe one of the other sites has a point about tank rushing.

Some of them do this actively, like the sites that blocked moderateGOP from even participating, but it works just as well by peer pressure. Maybe even a little better, since a site can still call itself impartial when opposing views aren't moderated off the board, just shouted down by the community. One side of a debate will have a clear majority and drown out the other until its members just stop participating and the few that remain are so stubborn and confrontational that they're easily labeled as trolls and by common internet rules are fair game.

It's really easy to convince yourself that you're right when everybody seems to agree with you.
Excellent points Hevach, and you're right the internet is a community in of itself. CT's no longer thrive within the confines of a church, or withinn a close knit community, the internet has allowed them to spread across the globe. It's given ordinary people a platform to be anything but ordinary. I often wonder to what extent the internet is responsible for the world we live in today. One on hand the internet has carried the world into the 21st century, but at what price?
 
Excellent points Hevach, and you're right the internet is a community in of itself. CT's no longer thrive within the confines of a church, or withinn a close knit community, the internet has allowed them to spread across the globe. It's given ordinary people a platform to be anything but ordinary. I often wonder to what extent the internet is responsible for the world we live in today. One on hand the internet has carried the world into the 21st century, but at what price?

The internet isn't a community - it's lots of little communities that are geographically diverse, but highly focused, and often highly insular - sometimes walled off.
 
The internet isn't a community - it's lots of little communities that are geographically diverse, but highly focused, and often highly insular - sometimes walled off.
You said it much better, and I agree, but when you speak of insular or being walled off that has more to do with how that particular site (community) chooses to moderate their site (community). Only wanting like minds with similar interest, and no opposing views or philosophies.
 
There a thing called Folie à deux ("a madness of a couple"). Not that I'm wanting to call anyone "mad", but similar mechanisms apply when holding strong false beliefs. It's hard to argue so fundamentally with someone you love and/or respect. How do you tell your wife that her entire world view is wrong?

Be careful who you marry!

Seriously though, I've been in a couple of relationships in the past (I'm pushing 50) where I might have settled down with that person had there not been some fundamental differences in worldviews or religious belief (I have none). I mean, the sex was dynamite, and the craic likewise, but then a proper discussion would occur and I'd slowly (metaphorically) back towards the exit. In the end I married a woman who tolerates my political activism without sharing it, has no religious beliefs, but is a humanitarian in all her normal interactions. I can't say we're soul-mates, but there's no contentious issue to drive a wedge. Apart from my drinking.
 
Too often, those with a common "belief" will feed each other, often to the exclusion of any outside evidence that negates their original "belief", no matter how strong or compelling that evidence is.

Weedwhacker, meet Creationists.

Jehovah Witnesses called to the door last week. After they began their spiel I interrupted "Listen, we're all full up with batshit crazy here today, and besides ... fossils".
 
Weedwhacker, meet Creationists.

Jehovah Witnesses called to the door last week. After they began their spiel I interrupted "Listen, we're all full up with batshit crazy here today, and besides ... fossils".

I am "literally" ROFL!!!!


ADDING....this is a "shout out" for those who have not been "exposed" to her....I want EVERYONE to know how brilliant she is:
 
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Jehovah Witnesses called to the door last week. After they began their spiel I interrupted "Listen, we're all full up with batshit crazy here today, and besides ... fossils".

I just answer the door carrying my pet snake. Doesn't work that well now, since my old king snake died and my new one's only about 8 inches long and as thick as a shoelace, but the old one was about 8 feet long and very curious about new smells, so he'd always stick his head out the door and look at them. Freaked the adults out, but my favorite ones were the groups that brought a kid or two along because people are more polite in front of them. The kids usually aren't old enough to learn to fear snakes, so they get really curious and start asking questions. "Wow, is he poisonous?" "No, he's harmless, want to pet him?" "What are you doing with him?" "Oh, just getting ready to feed him. Hey, you guys see any cats or small dogs about this big on the block? Would really save me a drive." The kids loved it, but the parents just got more and more horrified.
 
Or you could buy a door knocker in the shape of a large penis, and see how many of those god-botherers are willing to grab hold and give it a swing ...
 
Or you could buy a door knocker in the shape of a large penis, and see how many of those god-botherers are willing to grab hold and give it a swing ...
In my state at least (from what I understand), Jehovah Witness aren't allowed to knock on our doors anymore. I haven't seen them in the longest time to be honest with you. It's weird because I remember when I was young my father would have these intimate conversations with them about God and the Universe. My dad was raised in an Orthodox Jewish family, so his beliefs were very strong (at that time). Once they learned he was Jewish they would walk away, not because he was jewish (I hope) but because he already had religion.

I for one never understood why people where so bothered by these Jehovahs. But again, I don't mind getting off the couch to answer the door. I would politely tell them I'm not interested and they would walk away. I think having a big penis on the door (I'm guessing you also don't have any kids) would be a little over the top. Maybe its the salesmen in me, but I respect what they are trying to do. I don't understand why people are so bothered with Jehovah's but aren't with the Verizon Fios guy, the roofer, landscaper, siding guy, the painter, or the guy thats doing your neighbors driveway and wants to do yours for half the price. To me they are all the same, and I respect the fact that they are doing what they need to do to provide for their family or establishment.

And honestly, this is an example of whats wrong with the world we live in today. We vilify the person who's selling love, peace, and god at our front door, but welcome sarcasm, cruelty, and cynicism.
 
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...but I respect what they are trying to do.

You are a better person than I am, then. Kudos to you...

I don't understand why people are so bothered with Jehovah's but aren't with the Verizon Fios guy, the roofer, landscaper, siding guy, the painter, or the guy thats doing your neighbors driveway and wants to do yours for half the price.

Because, one example is providing an actual service...the other? Just spouting nonsense.
 
I for one never understood why people where so bothered by these Jehovahs ... I think having a big penis on the door (I'm guessing you also don't have any kids) would be a little over the top ... but I respect what they are trying to do. I don't understand why people are so bothered with Jehovah's but aren't with the Verizon Fios guy, the roofer, landscaper, siding guy, the painter, or the guy thats doing your neighbors driveway and wants to do yours for half the price. To me they are all the same, and I respect the fact that they are doing what they need to do to provide for their family or establishment.

I grew up as a witness, for a while. My being bothered might have something to do with the fact that when we left that community we were immediately exiled: nobody within that community could ever speak to us again. So, there's that. There's also the fact that will deny their children life-saving medical treatments. There's quite a lot of that religion that is simply appalling, but they're not alone in that respect.

As for the door knocker, that was a joke. I'd guess most people got that.
 
It's not that I'm a better person, it's more along the lines of having respect for everyone, regardless of what they believe in...

I think that this is a philosophy that is best for ALL Humans to adopt. Unfortunately, this is not yet the "ideal"...
 
I grew up as a witness, for a while. My being bothered might have something to do with the fact that when we left that community we were immediately exiled: nobody within that community could ever speak to us again. So, there's that. There's also the fact that will deny their children life-saving medical treatments. There's quite a lot of that religion that is simply appalling, but they're not alone in that respect.

As for the door knocker, that was a joke. I'd guess most people got that.
I got it, and I fell off my chair laughing. I was just trying to make a point. Trust me it was funny
 
I think that this is a philosophy that is best for ALL Humans to adopt. Unfortunately, this is not yet the "ideal"...
You're right. Maybe it has to do with the way I was raised, and how I watched my father interact with them. Who knows, but my kids are always watching so I have to be careful how I interact with strangers to an extent.
 
You're right. Maybe it has to do with the way I was raised, and how I watched my father interact with them. Who knows, but my kids are always watching so I have to be careful how I interact with strangers to an extent.
We ALL must deal....I judge you as a good parent, Jason. I mean this with all sincerity.

ETA...Thanks, because....THOSE kids are going to be the "future"....when I'm in my seventies...or eighties (If I live that long!!)
 
Personally, the roofers and landscapers or any uninvited solicitor get the same treatment from me, since "no soliciting" signs aren't legally enforceable here, being crazy is the next best deterrent. So, doorbell rings, snake comes out. I never insult any solicitor, and I rarely throw them off the property, but if they're going to talk to me, the snake's going to be right there the whole time, usually staring at them because they keep moving their hands.

It's just that most people's reactions are pretty measured. Contractors and landscapers generally run into snakes in their work, most charity collectors are teenagers who think he's cool, salesmen are used to crazy people being crazy. The only ones who it really fazes are politicians, proselytizers, and my mother-in-law.
 
I am SO very sorry if I offended you, in any way!!!!!

Not a bit of it. It's particularly difficult to offend me, bro. Insults are like mercury off a titanium duck's back.

I meant to say to Jason that I do have a kid, a 10yr old boy. I'm teaching him to respect all people regardless of their religious beliefs, and every year I take him on the Pride march in Helsinki so he knows that all people deserve to love and be loved. Much of my cantankerous old bastard demeanour is a front.
 
Personally, the roofers and landscapers or any uninvited solicitor get the same treatment from me, since "no soliciting" signs aren't legally enforceable here, being crazy is the next best deterrent.
Where does this stem from, and I don't mean that in a negative way, its just that half a century ago salesman knocking at the door was pretty much routine. It's how people got their milk, newspaper, vacuums, carpets, shoes, plastic containers, make up, clothing, and so much more. Back then salesman were invited in and offered iced tea or coffee. So what's happened in the last 50rs or so.

ETA: Sorry if we've veered this interesting topic TV started off its course.
 
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