Interesting topic on alternet that talks about libertarianism being associated with conspiracy.

nanotchi

Member
http://www.alternet.org/why-i-fled-libertarianism-and-became-liberal

 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Response...

 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Response...

Hmmmmm . . . libertarianism and conspiracy buffs ???? The connection now makes some sense . . . guess people willing to ignore traditional Democrat and Republican doctrine are more likely to reject the norm and look for alternative philosophy and reality . . . maybe we are simply contrarians . . . :confused:
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Hmmmmm . . . libertarianism and conspiracy buffs ???? The connection now makes some sense . . . guess people willing to ignore traditional Democrat and Republican doctrine are more likely to reject the norm and look for alternative philosophy and reality . . . maybe we are simply contrarians . . . :confused:

Or perhaps it's just that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarians, not the other way around.

If you were highly suspicious of the actions and motivations of those in power, then what political ideology would you chose to follow?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
It's definitely a noticeable phenomenon though. Maybe they need to poll themselves and find out what proportion do believe questionable things and which are more rationally focused.
The loudest and most visible may not be representative of the whole, but they will give that impression to outsiders.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Or perhaps it's just that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarians, not the other way around.

If you were highly suspicious of the actions and motivations of those in power, then what political ideology would you chose to follow?

A lot of them don't vote at all.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Aren't there lots of independent parties to vote for? (Shooters and Fishers Party, Sex Party, Legalise Pot Party, etc)

Voting is compulsory here, so I number all the alternative parties first, (about 160 individual boxes), adding the two majors (the only real 'choice') last. You can also choose to vote for women ahead of men this way.
I don't know if that has any effect, but if enough did it then there would be much more variety in parliament, and lots more views to take into consideration when passing legislation, which would hopefully lead to better compromises for all represented interests.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Or perhaps it's just that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarians, not the other way around.

If you were highly suspicious of the actions and motivations of those in power, then what political ideology would you chose to follow?
I would think of those who vote . . . they would seek a political party not aligned with those powers they feel have always been historically in control . . . which means a third party candidate which means an Independent . . .
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Aren't there lots of independent parties to vote for? (Shooters and Fishers Party, Sex Party, Legalise Pot Party, etc)

Not really. In most elections in the US there are only two or three candidates. Only high profile elections attract the Monster Raving Loony style candidates. The Tea Party is basically a branch of the Republican party, but sometimes is in contest with it locally.
 

Jeremy

Active Member
Penn Jillette is a rational skeptic who rejects conspiracy theories, so it is a little unfair to lump in all libertarians as such.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Penn Jillette is a rational skeptic who rejects conspiracy theories, so it is a little unfair to lump in all libertarians as such.

Who did? The point is there's an association.

Many people I meet at skeptics conferences are libertarians too. Some of them used to be conspiracy theorists. I suspect the association might be stronger with young libertarian.
 

Santa'sSickRibs

Senior Member
I haven't spoken with many libertarians, but the famous ones, like Ron Paul and Thomas Sowell, seem to be rational, level-headed and conspiracy-free.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
I haven't spoken with many libertarians, but the famous ones, like Ron Paul and Thomas Sowell, seem to be rational, level-headed and conspiracy-free.

You sure about that? :)

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...anuary/14/charlie-hebdo-shootings-false-flag/

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/29/ron-pauls-world/?_r=0

 
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Santa'sSickRibs

Senior Member
i dont pay super attention to politics, but i always thought he was a Republican. go figure.
He is a Republican. That's what you get in a two-party system - Nelson Rockefeller in a party with the John Birch Society, George Wallace with Robert Kennedy, Bernie Sanders with Joe Lieberman, Jeb Bush with Ron Paul. It's slightly bizarre, but there's American politics for you. :)

Btw in the quotes above Paul sounds like he doesn't believe the CT himself but he's aware that many of his supporters do and he's trying to placate them. This is the same approach Jeb Bush and Chris Christie have to climate change - they say things along the lines of 'I'm not a scientist, but scientists are sure this is real', implying that they accept it as fact while avoiding an explicit acknowledgment to play to their voters.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Btw in the quotes above Paul sounds like he doesn't believe the CT himself but he's aware that many of his supporters do and he's trying to placate them

Thats seems generous. He is a politician and thus likely savvy enough to keep them (CTs) at arms length- but clearly postings on his institute's website suggest he his not "free" from CT's

Nonetheless, this quote sounds like he believes what he says.

 

Santa'sSickRibs

Senior Member
Thats seems generous. He is a politician and thus likely savvy enough to keep them (CTs) at arms length- but clearly postings on his institute's website suggest he his not "free" from CT's

Nonetheless, this quote sounds like he believes what he says.

Writings with odd or controversial content have been misattributed to Paul in the past; I'd reconsider my position if you could find an article or speech in which he says something CT-esque with his own mouth (or pen).

As for his being a savvy politician: Paul frequently makes odd and highly unpopular public pronouncements (consider for example his flaunting, at seemingly every oppurtunity, his extreme stances regarding the Fed, the gold standard and foreign affairs), and I'd imagine that were he to believe in a CT he'd be forthright about it.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Writings with odd or controversial content have been misattributed to Paul in the past; I'd reconsider my position if you could find an article or speech in which he says something CT-esque with his own mouth (or pen).

...I'd imagine that were he to believe in a CT he'd be forthright about it.

You suggested he was "conspiracy free". The Charlie Hebedo article on his name-sake website- regardless of whether he wrote it or not- is enough to debunk that claim.

I dont see how anyone can be a frequent guest on Alex Jones' show and be considered "conspiracy free".

His comments on the CFR and Trilateral commission could be pulled from any number of posts by CTs on this site or found in Info Wars etc...:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/12/23/ron_paul_on_the_trilateral_commission.html

Nonetheless- this statement seems quite forthright:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/10/ron-paul/the-waco-summit/
 

Santa'sSickRibs

Senior Member
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/10/ron-paul/the-waco-summit/
That satisfies my criteria. I confess myself quite surprised.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Nonetheless- this statement seems quite forthright
huh. i didnt even know that was a thing. or that he was saying that about the Hebedo murders!

Paul sounds like he doesn't believe the CT himself but he's aware that many of his supporters do and he's trying to placate them
placate them? oh bunk. Trying to excuse the killers for murdering people is trying to excuse the killers for murdering people. Period.

No sane person would allow such things... such CT type speculation with no evidence, to be posted on thier website just to "placate people". Who would even want such supporters! They are not a help to any 'political change' you might want to try to get accomplished, they are an albatross.

That's the problem with many false-flag conspiracy theorists, they can't see the difference between 'having questions' and being disrespectful ghouls.

sorry, to be so blunt. i didnt know he was a false flagger until today.
 

Inti

Senior Member.
Or perhaps it's just that conspiracy theorists tend to be libertarians, not the other way around.

If you were highly suspicious of the actions and motivations of those in power, then what political ideology would you chose to follow?
Well, I can see that. However, I have known a certain number of Marxists and a larger number of anarchists who were definitely conspiracy theorists.

Mind, until the first half of the 80s I mostly heard and used the term “libertarian” as a short version of “libertarian socialist”, which overlaps with anarchist. When the right wing version of libertarianism was first becoming widely known, I heard an anarchist/lib socialist call it “libertarian against government but highly authoritarian in favour of property and economic power”.
 

April.

New Member
When I got into conspiracy theories I was very libertarian and practically ancap at the time. The logic being: terrible evil government unsurprisingly does horrible thing (9/11). Lots of political conspiracies at first since "those are the realistic ones". I still have a very anti-government viewpoint, and my political views only shifted left because I realized capitalism is yet another part of that corrupt system. There's not too many of us lefty conspiracy theorists. Practically everyone is libertarian so it can kinda be a bit weird at times with a political clash. But ever since Biden became president I've been seeing an influx of left-wing conspiracy theorists flood into related spaces so... Ironically most truthers won't consider themselves right-wing or libertarian. Instead it's "neither left nor right, we're outside of that". And I can get that to an extent, and I think it's partly why Andrew Yang's message hit hard with me, "not left, not right, forward".
 
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